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Posted: 6/10/2011 10:55:43 AM EDT
Im in a bind im thinking about getting there supressors for 5.56 and 7.62 i like AAC but in you alls opinion who makes better supressors and is surefire even worht the money?
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 11:07:27 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Im in a bind im thinking about getting there supressors for 5.56 and 7.62 i like AAC but in you alls opinion who makes better supressors and is surefire even worht the money?


I have used both AAC and SureFire suppressors.  It seems to me sound suppression was about equal between the SF I used and the M4-2000.  I have to admit, I do prefer the SureFire mounting system.  However, I have hot had any problems with my AAC 51t mounts.  I ended up owning the M4-2000 because it is was in stock at my dealer at the time.  Neither one is a bargain item, so I wouldn't worry about the price difference.  Just pick the one you like better and that is readily available.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 12:29:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Surefire has a NSN part number...
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 12:57:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Surefire has a NSN part number...


Umm, so does the AAC...

Link Posted: 6/10/2011 2:11:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Surefire makes awesome flashlights.  They should stick to that.  Go with AAC they make awesome suppressors and haven't tried to make half ass flashlights.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 2:53:14 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 3:15:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Surefire has a NSN part number...


Umm, so does the AAC...



Shhhhhhhhh....
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 3:30:37 PM EDT
[#7]
Outside of weight. I have never been impressed by high dollar cans performance compared to say a gemtech or yhm. They all soundthey the same. me i don't find their attachment methods to be worth the 2x premium.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 5:30:08 PM EDT
[#8]
While I don't own a suppressor yet, surefire is at the top of my list.

I have been doing lots of reading and have several different model cans on my "short" list, but surefire is by far the most expensive.

While cost doesn't bother me as much on a lifelong purchase like a suppressor, I feel like the high price is not totally out of line. From various reviews I have read, it seems SF's attachment method is one of the best in the industry. Most users report very small, if any poi shift, and accuracy doesn't seem to be effected. (If anything it is a little better, but this happens with most suppressors I have found.) The main reason I am leaning toward a SF can is that I am confident SF will be around in 20yrs should an issue arise. I have several other reasons for considering SF, but if I were you I would read a lot before making a purchase as everyone's opinion is a little different.

Last but not least to me is the sound of the suppressor. To me, almost all centerfire rifle suppressors sound the same. I am making my purchase based on the other factors I listed above. Granted the SF's I have heard in person were easily "hearing safe", SF has the rep on the web of being not as quiet as other suppressors out there.
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 8:17:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Yeah good advice i guess im just going to have to hear them for myself
Link Posted: 6/10/2011 9:08:13 PM EDT
[#10]
I've fired my surefire alongside a couple AAC offerings. M41000 and 2000 if memory serves me.

The actual report of the gun sounded very similar, however the AAC cans made this really annoying PING! sound with each shot, I understand that's due to the flash suppressor/mount they use.

Link Posted: 6/11/2011 6:51:39 AM EDT
[#11]
I have a SF 556-212 and could not be happier with it. The AAC cans are great, but I compared before I bought and the almost nil shift in POI with the SF was the clincher. The SF is expensive, but for me it was worth the $$ and the wait.
Link Posted: 6/11/2011 7:44:50 AM EDT
[#12]
my first can was a SF556K. I love it. Love the mount, size and weight. It also sounds great on my 16". It will be moving to my 11.5" when I get off my ass and build it.

I currently have a M42000 pending at the ATF. Should be here this month.

That being said.



Get both.

And for the poster that said SF makes half assed suppressors, maybe you should go pick one up and shoot it. It sounds like you are talking out of your ass and have never handled a SF can.
Link Posted: 6/11/2011 8:32:49 AM EDT
[#13]
––*****************
Link Posted: 6/11/2011 10:16:24 AM EDT
[#14]
**************************
Link Posted: 6/11/2011 10:19:05 AM EDT
[#15]
**********************
Link Posted: 6/11/2011 10:41:00 AM EDT
[#16]

fuck me?

i am not the one SF bashing without facts. tell me how "in your professional use" a SF can has failed you?



Quoted:
Quoted:
my first can was a SF556K. I love it. Love the mount, size and weight. It also sounds great on my 16". It will be moving to my 11.5" when I get off my ass and build it.

I currently have a M42000 pending at the ATF. Should be here this month.

That being said.



Get both.

And for the poster that said SF makes half assed suppressors, maybe you should go pick one up and shoot it. It sounds like you are talking out of your ass and have never handled a SF can.


Same post above applies to you.  Fuck you too if you don't like someone's else's opinion because it conflicts with what your believe.  I use both companies products professionally so much for ASSumption...



Link Posted: 6/11/2011 12:03:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Guys, ease off the personal attacks. This is a tech forum so knock it off.

To the OP, I believe the M4-2K and the 212 are very close to each other in performance. I have shot both side by side and been downrange while each was shot and I could not tell a difference. As an owner of an M4-2K, I have been very pleased with it. I do, however, like the very minimal POI shift in the Surefire cans. Either choice is a good one.
Link Posted: 6/11/2011 1:59:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
What the fuck???  Listen you little asshole I think I might have a "clue" I actually use these items in my everyday job and I own thousands of dollars in surefire and AAC products so fuck you.


Never mind.
Link Posted: 6/11/2011 3:01:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Surefire makes awesome flashlights.  They should stick to that.  Go with AAC they make awesome suppressors and haven't tried to make half ass flashlights.


At first glance, your response to this post seems as though your undies are all twisted....but in the event that you do, in fact, have thousands of dollars worth of AAC and Surefire equipment, what negative things have you witnessed with the Surefire cans.

I'd like to hear what you have to say (and I'm not being sarcastic).

Please be as descriptive as possible (what models, mounts, etc.)

Thanks!
Link Posted: 6/11/2011 4:22:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 6/12/2011 6:44:05 AM EDT
[#21]



Quoted:




Im in a bind im thinking about getting there supressors for 5.56 and 7.62 i like AAC but in you alls opinion who makes better supressors and is surefire even worht the money?


The simplest answer is no.



Their cans are overpriced for what you get, and I have never seen one meter quieter than an AAC, SWR, Gemtech, or YHM.



 
Link Posted: 6/17/2011 4:15:04 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Im in a bind im thinking about getting there supressors for 5.56 and 7.62 i like AAC but in you alls opinion who makes better supressors and is surefire even worht the money?


In short, "no". They're too loud, prices are out of line, and the claims of no zero-shift are BS. Any time you attach a 15-20oz muzzle device, zero shift will occur. A repeatable zero shift is achievable, but quality suppressors from other manufacturers (Knight's, AAC) are also capable of this.
Link Posted: 6/17/2011 4:21:24 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Im in a bind im thinking about getting there supressors for 5.56 and 7.62 i like AAC but in you alls opinion who makes better supressors and is surefire even worht the money?


In short, "no". They're too loud, prices are out of line, and the claims of no zero-shift are BS. Any time you attach a 15-20oz muzzle device, zero shift will occur. A repeatable zero shift is achievable, but quality suppressors from other manufacturers (Knight's, AAC) are also capable of this.


They might not meter on par with the others, hell, I've got no idea. But side by side, my surefire sounds as good or better as every other can I've ran it with.

They don't claim zero shift, at least, they didn't back when I bought mine. They claimed minimal.

I claim NO zero shift after running it on easily 10 uppers. No obvious difference between mounted and not.

Call it what you will, there are plenty of arfcom members who have shot my stuff and can back that shit up.

Repeatable zero shift is what the other guys have to do.

My surefire can does not require ANY readjustment of sights between mounted and dismounted.

Perhaps someone with a submoa rifle firing for miniscule groups might need to rezero, but for a rifle intended for fighting at various ranges, the damn thing works just fine without needing a rezero.

of course, your mileage may vary.
Link Posted: 6/17/2011 4:50:47 AM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 6/17/2011 4:55:53 AM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 6/17/2011 6:50:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Im in a bind im thinking about getting there supressors for 5.56 and 7.62 i like AAC but in you alls opinion who makes better supressors and is surefire even worht the money?


In short, "no". They're too loud, prices are out of line, and the claims of no zero-shift are BS. Any time you attach a 15-20oz muzzle device, zero shift will occur. A repeatable zero shift is achievable, but quality suppressors from other manufacturers (Knight's, AAC) are also capable of this.


They might not meter on par with the others, hell, I've got no idea. But side by side, my surefire sounds as good or better as every other can I've ran it with.

They don't claim zero shift, at least, they didn't back when I bought mine. They claimed minimal.

I claim NO zero shift after running it on easily 10 uppers. No obvious difference between mounted and not.

Call it what you will, there are plenty of arfcom members who have shot my stuff and can back that shit up.

Repeatable zero shift is what the other guys have to do.

My surefire can does not require ANY readjustment of sights between mounted and dismounted.

Perhaps someone with a submoa rifle firing for miniscule groups might need to rezero, but for a rifle intended for fighting at various ranges, the damn thing works just fine without needing a rezero.

of course, your mileage may vary.


i don't notice any shift in mine either



I shot a 16" AR with 3 different Surefire cans - the 212, Mini, and Micro. There was zero POI shift between each can and unsppressed. Surefire may not make the guarantee but their products perform.






Link Posted: 6/17/2011 7:00:08 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
real quick thought in buying cans.


Its a LIFETIME purchase, resale on a used can SUCKS.......my only regrets on cans are buying cheaper ones


so if I paid $300 more for my surefire than a AAC......my shooting time over the rest of my lifetime is a possible 50 weekends a year for the next 30 years, that's $.20 a weekend difference, that's 1/2 a round of .308

BUY the best for you the first time and have fun with it!

I guarantee buying any of the hi end cans you will be happy


For me personally, price is no object for a suppressor purchase either. I'd never try to resell any of mine. But SF is more expensive and doesn't perform as well as competitors. SF isn't a bad product, just not as good as AAC or Knight's. I like Knight's cans though they're much more expensive than competing cans, even louder to a degree, but the design, construction quality and materials are a major plus for their products.
Link Posted: 6/17/2011 7:05:01 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Im in a bind im thinking about getting there supressors for 5.56 and 7.62 i like AAC but in you alls opinion who makes better supressors and is surefire even worht the money?


In short, "no". They're too loud, prices are out of line, and the claims of no zero-shift are BS. Any time you attach a 15-20oz muzzle device, zero shift will occur. A repeatable zero shift is achievable, but quality suppressors from other manufacturers (Knight's, AAC) are also capable of this.


They might not meter on par with the others, hell, I've got no idea. But side by side, my surefire sounds as good or better as every other can I've ran it with.

They don't claim zero shift, at least, they didn't back when I bought mine. They claimed minimal.

I claim NO zero shift after running it on easily 10 uppers. No obvious difference between mounted and not.

Call it what you will, there are plenty of arfcom members who have shot my stuff and can back that shit up.

Repeatable zero shift is what the other guys have to do.

My surefire can does not require ANY readjustment of sights between mounted and dismounted.

Perhaps someone with a submoa rifle firing for miniscule groups might need to rezero, but for a rifle intended for fighting at various ranges, the damn thing works just fine without needing a rezero.

of course, your mileage may vary.


i don't notice any shift in mine either



I shot a 16" AR with 3 different Surefire cans - the 212, Mini, and Micro. There was zero POI shift between each can and unsppressed. Surefire may not make the guarantee but their products perform.








Sorry, I don't buy it. I've shot SF cans before and saw 2-3" shift at 100 meters. If there's no shift, you're groups probably aren't good enough to make an accurate determination. Or it's merely a coincidence. I've seen a Gemtech thread-on can with a 1" shift at 100 yards. It's still not a can I would own. I think a lack of zero shift is either a happy coincidence or something that's not happening. So some SF can/rifle combos have very small amounts of shift, others do not. YMMV?
Link Posted: 6/17/2011 7:28:17 AM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 6/17/2011 7:57:52 AM EDT
[#30]
Ok, FACTS only and NO BASHING. I am an FFL/SOT and run AAC on most of my rifles. I went to Silencer Shoot a few weeks back and shot Surefire's new line. They have changed their mounts and locking rings on their cans. They have the best mounting system in the business, bar none! I spoke with Garin (one of the lead developers @ SF's suppressor dept) at lengt and then shot the new cans. I used a 5.56 AR as the host for the Mini Monster, Micro, and 556-212. I shot a 6" X 6" steel plate @ 100yds with all 3 cans and they all 3 had the same POI shift. It is minimal and repeatable. Garin told me that Surefire does not focus on dB reduction over minimal POI shift and repeatability every time, all of the time. Why chase a few dB's in a design when you have a rock solid can that is extremely accurate? 5.56/.223 is freaking loud...period. A 556 can is made to absorb the muzzle blast. You still have a super sonic "crack" and you still have the blast coming from the chamber and the sound of the bcg running. SF is worth the money and I have them $everal hundred dollars less than MSRP.



AAC makes great cans as well...that is why I run them. I like the M4-2000 a lot, but the 51t mount does not compare to SF's mounts. As far as the "ping" goes with AAC, don't use the flash hider and put a brake on. Problem solved. I also stock AAC at WELL below MSRP. The days for paying MSRP on a suppressor and then a paperwork fee are over! Surefire 556 and 762 cans should be shipping soon. They are simply badass!



-To add to this thread, the name calling, product bashing, and factless biased opinions are not needed.  The NFA world does not need anymore assholes.  Try and be an ambassador to the new comers and help them along.  Your first NFA purchase can be daunting and when there are a bunch of egotistical internet tough guys mouthing off at one another, it makes us all look like assholes.  NFA, especially suppressor ownership is growing, so be cool.  All you do when you act like an asshole to someone who is seeking information is make us all look like assholes (there goes another silencer guy with all of his cool guy gear queer shit thinking he's a badass!).  If you don't have facts to add to the thread, then don't say anything.  Help the OP out as he is looking for good info on a lifetime purchase.
Link Posted: 6/18/2011 5:25:47 AM EDT
[#31]
Don't know who makes the best suppressor, but I can say that my Surefire was worth every penny spent on it.  I wanted: light weight, minimum length added to the weapon, quick attach solid mounting and minimum point of impact shift.  I got all of that with the FA556AR.  It gets swapped between a 16" carbine and 11.5" SBR and is used for building clearing / warrant service.



It's pretty light weight for its size and adds very little to the length of the weapon.  Mounted on the 16" carbine it's manageable in tight spaces but still a bit much.  On the 11.5 it's almost perfect,  about the length of the 16" carbine bare.  It's quick and easy to mount and it's solid.  I've never had it get loose when mounted.  



The point of impact shift is minimal.  My rifles are zeroed bare and I only notice a small, repeatable shift when shooting slow fire from the bench.



Shooting at night, the Surefire compensator bare is very good at flash suppression, with the suppressor mounted, flash is almost nonexistent.  From the shooters point of view there is no flash with either the bare compensator or suppressor.  From an observers perspective, with suppressor mounted, the flash (when there is detectable flash) is hard to see in darkness even when you know where to look for it.  



As for sound suppression, I don't know about decibels, I don't have calibrated ears.  I do know that it reduces the bark of the 11.5" SBR from an earsplitting roar to about that of a .22 pistol inside the shoot house. Comfortable.



Like I said, worth every penny.





Link Posted: 6/18/2011 1:21:26 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:

Sorry, I don't buy it. I've shot SF cans before and saw 2-3" shift at 100 meters. If there's no shift, you're groups probably aren't good enough to make an accurate determination. Or it's merely a coincidence. I've seen a Gemtech thread-on can with a 1" shift at 100 yards. It's still not a can I would own. I think a lack of zero shift is either a happy coincidence or something that's not happening. So some SF can/rifle combos have very small amounts of shift, others do not. YMMV?



You don't have to buy it. The fact is that 3 different posters in this thread all have very similar, independent experiences.  

Here's the deal - I'm not sure where in AL you are but I'm on the AL/GA line in Columbus. If you'll come here, I'll let you pull the trigger and see for yourself. I don't own a single Surefire suppressor and didn't believe the claims myself until I got behind the trigger. The Micro was here for demo with a Surefire rep but the 212 and Mini are still here waiting for you to shoot them. I don't make this offer to be a dick. I'd genuinely love for you to come shoot with us and see what you think.

Out of curiosity - what rifle cans do you own and have extensive experience with? The reason I ask is that you insinuated the 1" shift from the Gemtech was enough for you to not own that particular suppressor.



OP - Personally, I'm doing my own research for a 30 cal can and Surefire is at the top of my list. I'm not in a hurry to purchase so I'm also going to wait and see what SilencerCo puts together in the future. Don't expect anything soon but I'm sure it will be worth the wait. Buy once, cry once.


Link Posted: 6/19/2011 12:16:37 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:

For me personally, price is no object for a suppressor purchase either. I'd never try to resell any of mine. But SF is more expensive and doesn't perform as well as competitors. SF isn't a bad product, just not as good as AAC or Knight's. I like Knight's cans though they're much more expensive than competing cans, even louder to a degree, but the design, construction quality and materials are a major plus for their products.


You say KAC is louder, more expensive.  I'll agree with the design and construction quality comments with a single caveat: the short distance of the blast baffle from the muzzle crown does promote accelerated wear and is a design compromise as it pertains to barrels less than 14.5" long <obviously those barrels weren't a part of the design considerations as the can was designed for a 14.5" barrel- that is not to say the design is flawed, but that it may be flawed when looking back at a product designed for the SF/Military market of the late 90s from the perspective of the civilian market in 2011.  

I'll agree with the Surefire concept of not chasing a DB at the expense of POI shift, but do feel Surefire would probably have better sound performance if they built the can at least the length of the closest flagship competitor the 6.5" KAC M4QD.  Volume will help.  Here Surefire says we don't feel the need to compromise POI shift but they have made a compromise with regard to sound reduction.  

Regarding surefire shift- quoting 3MOA shift on a rifle is pointless.  I've seen factory guns with threads .011" out of concentric to the bore AT THE MUZZLE ITSELF.   Anyone who would buy a $1400 can and put it on a factory barrel of unknown quality and complain should be looking at their own twisted logic in introducing a potential major flaw to an otherwise good system.

As far as the argument that additional sound performance will not be noticed or worth while from the Surefire rep- shoot an Ops 12th model- the can will prove he is wrong and that down to bullet flight noise / 132DB, you're going to appreciate what you can get.

Every product is a compromise in some respect or another-  even sound reduction could be considered a compromise as heat generation will follow it and heat generation will reduce the threshold of the onset of failure so the notion of a "best" product is a probably a small picture concept. The products instead should be looked at as potential answers to end users with different needs.  
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 8:30:16 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:

Every product is a compromise in some respect or another-  even sound reduction could be considered a compromise as heat generation will follow it and heat generation will reduce the threshold of the onset of failure so the notion of a "best" product is a probably a small picture concept. The products instead should be looked at as potential answers to end users with different needs.  



You hit the nail on the head.
Link Posted: 6/19/2011 10:44:25 AM EDT
[#35]



Quoted:



Quoted:



Every product is a compromise in some respect or another-  even sound reduction could be considered a compromise as heat generation will follow it and heat generation will reduce the threshold of the onset of failure so the notion of a "best" product is a probably a small picture concept. The products instead should be looked at as potential answers to end users with different needs.  







You hit the nail on the head.
Agreed X 2.  I am not bashing Knight's here, but I am speaking from my experience.  The Knight's mount sucks.  There is a lot of play in the can once it is locked down.  As much movement as there is in a rifle when it goes bang, this causes Knight's cans to move.  This changes POI.  I have seen it.  I have seen a .5 MOA group open to well over 1 MOA (shot in a rest) with Knights.  That is a 1/2 Minute at 100yds.  Think about 300, 500, 1000yds.  That is a lot a lot!!!  I think that they have noticed this too as they have redesigned their mount and hopefully it will lock up tight for consistent and repeatable POI shift,  I want my precision cans to index in the same place every time, all of the time.





 
Link Posted: 6/20/2011 6:31:52 AM EDT
[#36]



Quoted:




They have changed their mounts and locking rings on their cans. They have the best mounting system in the business, bar none!


That is a matter of preference.



My version of "Best Mount"  is something that only requires 1 hand, and has no moving parts in the silencer itself, and is secure (does not back off).



 
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