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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 5/12/2002 8:08:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2002 8:10:04 PM EDT by Greenhorn]
At ammoman.com, it says that the Wolf ammo is copper-jacketed, so that's a plus. But I think I've read around here that people have had bad experiences with Wolf ammo.

It seems to be the cheapest at ammoman. Can it be trusted?

Oh yeah, another thing . . . what is the difference in 55 grain and 62 grain? Do the 62 grain bullets just go slower, or are there other differences?
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 8:22:16 PM EDT
I've shot a *lot* of Wolf .223 (also in its original form, "TCW" = Tula Cartridge Works).
No problems other than one dead round.

But then I'm running with chrome-lined Colt and Bushmaster barrels with milspec chambers (and Armalite counts here too). If you have a non-chrome lined barrel/chamber (OlyArms, DPMS, or others, for instatnce) or a "match" chamber/ barrel with a tight chamber, you may have problems - but then these rifles may well have problems with other military ammo as well.
Milspec chambers are typically a tad looser.

Having a *clean* and smooth chamber seems to be a big help: these Wolf rounds are varnish-coated and have been rumored to have harder extraction in dirty chambers due to sticking. Some have said that the varnish melts in hot chambers but this has been proven not to be true.

Wolf appears to have a bit more variation in muzzle velocities but it's great blasting ammo.

Some folks worry that the steel casing causes excess wear on an AR - specifically, the barrel, chamber and extractor. The steel is very soft, however, and the wear - if any - would be minimal if detectable. Extractors are $5 parts. The bullets are copper jacketed, and #1 cause of barrel life reduction is chamber erosion due to firing of *any* cartridge. The amount saved in ammo costs would easily cover a new barrel every 2000 rounds of ammo anyways...

Bill Wiese
San Mateo, CA




Link Posted: 5/12/2002 8:26:39 PM EDT
There have been quite a few complaints about wolf ammo from many here. I'll try to summarize what I remember.

It has steel cases which, due to their coating and the steel, are hard to extract from the chamber. Remember steel expands when it gets hot.

Regarding 55gr vs. 62gr, heavier bullets have better wind bucking ability. Now, if the 62gr ammo is either M855 or SS109 it hase a small steel insert toward the tip which is suppose to improve its penetration at longer distances versus the 55gr M193.
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 9:16:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bwiese:
Some have said that the varnish melts in hot chambers but this has been proven not to be true.



Sorry, but this is true. It has happened to me several times with their .45ACP ammo. The laquer coating turned to glue after melting and cooling in a hot chamber. A cleaning rod was required to knock the offending shell out of the chamber.
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 9:18:52 PM EDT
For most weapons, it's perfectly serviceable. You'll hear all kinds of comments about your use of it, but the proof is in weither or not it works in your weapon.. While not "match" grade, it shoots well enough for maintaining proficency.
Having scored a couple cans of USGI ammo may make you feel good, but it won't make you a better shot. Practice does that. If the ammo is too expensive for you to afford to shoot regularly,you may as well have a large club.

The "lacquer" melting, or building up and causing jamming is a myth..No evidence has been presented, and I have been unable to get any 5.56 I have used/owned to jam with this ammo. (AR-15's, M-16's, and AR-18's.)

As to steel casings causing premature wear, perhaps if you shoot a few thousand a week, you may see this. Buy spare extractors, springs.

Meplat-
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 10:03:24 PM EDT
Before I bought any I contacted Bushmaster and they said it was fine to shoot. I have since blown through more than 2000 rounds with no problems. If you maintain your rifle properly you should be just fine. If you don't, well you'll have trouble with any ammo anyway.

Mike

Link Posted: 5/12/2002 11:27:29 PM EDT
Buy it. Shoot it. Love it. You will too.
Link Posted: 5/12/2002 11:40:39 PM EDT
I have shot about 1,000 rounds(not at once)of the 62grn. out of my Oly and have had no problems. I do keep my gun as clean as when I bought it new after each shoot no matter how many rounds were spent,so that probably plays a role.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 3:27:11 AM EDT
Here's my opinion.

I buy wolf from my local gun shop guy cause it's the cheapest stuff he's got. I've never had a problem other than 5 or so extra minutes cleaning and my mags smell funny.


BUT

If I had the cash (next week) to be buying bulk from ammoman.com, I'd be getting his M193 Lake City stuff.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 5:26:14 AM EDT
this is one strange post...!

several months ago or more, when i was lurkinig, i saw nothyng but bad reports on Wolf ammo, & that was after i bought 1,000 rnd case, then i got those buyers remorse feelings & figgered that i wud dump it on the first person wanting to buy a rifle.., now !! i am changing my mind about that ammo, seems as tho the attitude towards Wolf ammo has changed over the past few months....., is there a reason for this ???
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 6:22:03 AM EDT
Last fall I fired my AR until it got so hot the gas tube turned purple. I was using Wolf ammo and had zero problems with the varnish melting off the cases. The upper I was using was not chrome lined. I still buy and use it. I had 1 failure to fire out of a 1000 rounds.

At the last Knob Creek shoot, the M16 rental guys were using Wolf 223. They had no problems for the hour I watched them, and their M16 fired pretty much non-stop for that hour.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 6:46:13 AM EDT
Yes. It is immoral.

Since I like my guns, I don't subject them to Wolf ammo.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 8:34:01 AM EDT
I really like the wolf 55g 223 I have over 1000 rds of it thru my mini 14 without any misfires jams or malfunctions, but then again I am using a mini 14 and they will feed anything and aren't as sensitive as the ar's. Can't beat the price either i just picked up a 1,000 rounds of 55gr hollow points for $97
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 9:38:34 AM EDT
I had a Wolf casing get stuck in my Mini-14 Ranch. It had to be banged out with a cleaning rod and was really in there.

But since going to Q3131A, I've had no further problems. Also, it is the dirtiest stuff that I ever used- just smears all over and is tough to get off.

If you use Wolf and have no problems and don't mind the mess, then by all means use it.

It is cheap and, if some rifles, works great.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 9:48:05 AM EDT
I realy hate the smell of fired Wolf ammo. I don't even run it through my SAR1 anymore. I'm not one known to have a weak stomach either, but for whatever reason, it makes me nausaus. Maybe I'm allergic to something in it.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 10:31:38 AM EDT
what causes that smell anyway?
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 10:48:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brouhaha:

Originally Posted By bwiese:
Some have said that the varnish melts in hot chambers but this has been proven not to be true.



Sorry, but this is true. It has happened to me several times with their .45ACP ammo. The laquer coating turned to glue after melting and cooling in a hot chamber. A cleaning rod was required to knock the offending shell out of the chamber.



Yup... I've had the same thing happen with Wolf pistol ammo in .45ACP. I had OK luck with .223 and would probably buy it again if I was short on funds. Their pistol ammo is pure crap though. A good 10% of the ammo never fired (had good primer strikes and everything) and another 5-10% that did fire failed to extract. So if you figure that about 20% of each batch of 500 is no good... that should pay for you to by some better quality ammo IMHO.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 10:58:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/13/2002 11:02:38 AM EDT by zipster223]
I purposely tried to f*&$ up an old chopped barrel once and used wolf ammo trying. I had 500 rounds loaded in mags and "hail Married" them as fast as I could go. I melted the gas tube about 300 rounds and the unit got too hot to handle but the wolf ammo did not stick once.
The Middle Easterners have been using steel case ammo for years in AK's never heard of any problems? Try the Wolf stuff you won't be sorry.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 11:13:39 AM EDT
I have over 4000 rounds of wolf 9mm through my Glock 26. I have had two duds, zero fail to feeds, zero fail to eject. I use it for practice and local IDPA/tactical matches.

I ran about 200 rounds of Wolf 62 grain .223 through my ArmaLite M-15 during a Practical Rifle match this weekend. The weapon got plenty hot during rapid fire exercises. Zero failures. Accuracy was acceptable. I had no trouble hitting 12 inch circle steel plates at 90-120 yards. Later in the day the Wolf Ammo grouped an inch or two worse than some XM193 on paper, slow fire. No surprise there.

No flames intended but I see weapons fail ALL THE TIME during matches. In my experience the .45’s fail the most. Just my observations. I have to wonder how many failures are weapon related vs. Wolf Ammo specific. All my weapons are bone stock, no modifications. I keep them reasonably clean and they all work fine with Wolf ammo. I’d never put my life on Wolf but its darn good practice ammo. Cheap ammo means more shooting time.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 12:51:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cyrax777:
what causes that smell anyway?



I remember Wolfing down a few boxes of .45ACP ammo at a indoor range. My throat and sinuses felt like shit for the rest if the day. That stuff is stinky!
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 3:15:31 PM EDT
OK......!!

y'll convinced me........ i got this ol beat up pre-ban "no-name" AR-15, i'll try out some of the Wolf ammo, if it works OK, then that is what i will use that rifle for..., my Colts & Bushy get fed the good stuff.....!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 3:53:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CactusJack:
this is one strange post...!

several months ago or more, when i was lurkinig, i saw nothyng but bad reports on Wolf ammo, & that was after i bought 1,000 rnd case, then i got those buyers remorse feelings & figgered that i wud dump it on the first person wanting to buy a rifle.., now !! i am changing my mind about that ammo, seems as tho the attitude towards Wolf ammo has changed over the past few months....., is there a reason for this ???



It was probably people that never used it parroting what they heard elsewhere. I'm up to over 5000 rounds of 223 out of my SP1 without a single failure... and I'm not good about cleaning my rifles either.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 4:04:42 PM EDT
Are you sure it's your cheapest option? Where I shop I buy American Eagle (Federal Cartridge Co.) 55gr FMJ BT for $3.85 a box and the Wolf brand sells for $4.59. AE is great general purpose ammo and the price is so good I can't resist buying it buy the case!

Link Posted: 5/13/2002 4:19:31 PM EDT
I'd avoid the Wolf 223, but I gorge myself on Wolf 7.62...the AK eats it and loves it...but then again you can marinate an AK in swamp mud and it'll still fire.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 4:27:00 PM EDT
At ammoman.com, a box of the Israeli Q3131 (which some here have recommended) would cost $4.00 (1000 rounds for $200), yours costs $3.85, and the Wolf brand costs only $2.50 per box (1000 rounds for $125).

So I'm torn between buying inexpensive ammo that might be crap, or buying more expensive ammo that's probably better. Maybe I should get both and try them out.

What would be the worst-case scenerio if a cartridge got stuck in the barrel or something?
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 5:24:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Greenhorn:
At ammoman.com, a box of the Israeli Q3131 (which some here have recommended) would cost $4.00 (1000 rounds for $200), yours costs $3.85, and the Wolf brand costs only $2.50 per box (1000 rounds for $125).

So I'm torn between buying inexpensive ammo that might be crap, or buying more expensive ammo that's probably better. Maybe I should get both and try them out.

What would be the worst-case scenerio if a cartridge got stuck in the barrel or something?



Buy South African battle packs instead. Cheap. Normal brass casings. M193. Yummy.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 5:33:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/13/2002 5:34:20 PM EDT by Greenhorn]
Wow. . .I e-mailed ammoman with a question, and I got an answer within 2 minutes! Is their customer service ALWAYS that good?
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 5:44:50 PM EDT
I have an Oly Car97 that I found out that I can't shot Wolf ammo out of it. I bougth the rifle new and started shotting wolf right off the bat. The rifle would not cycle from round to round. After one clip one of the rounds froze in side the chamber. It took a lot to get it out. It was the laquir on the steel cases that would melt and glue the case to the chamber. The tolerances on the Oly's chamber is to close to shot Wolf ammo. Had to send the rifle back to the factory for new barrel and gas tube. Wolf was great about it. I contacted them and they said to send the unused ammo back to them and I did, and they cut me a check for the cost of the ammo. They are great. I now use only wolf for my L1A1 and my AK47.
Link Posted: 5/13/2002 6:00:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Greenhorn:
Wow. . .I e-mailed ammoman with a question, and I got an answer within 2 minutes! Is their customer service ALWAYS that good?



Yep. Pretty much.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 8:43:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2002 8:45:40 PM EDT by tinkeroni]
Someone said; "There have been quite a few complaints about wolf ammo from many here. I'll try to summarize what I remember.

It has steel cases which, due to their coating and the steel, are hard to extract from the chamber. Remember steel expands when it gets hot.

Regarding 55gr vs. 62gr, heavier bullets have better wind bucking ability. Now, if the 62gr ammo is either M855 or SS109 it hase a small steel insert toward the tip which is suppose to improve its penetration at longer distances versus the 55gr M193."


Not!!! Brass expands more with heat than steel!! and what are these other "quite a few complaints.. We use lots of Wolf at the puppy range with no problems... Tink...
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:26:37 PM EDT

After one clip

Uh, Oh. You said the C word.Your in for it now
echo6
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 9:27:36 AM EDT
We also use it for cat hunting... Here Kitty, Kitty!!
Tink...
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 9:39:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tinkeroni:
We also use it for cat hunting... Here Kitty, Kitty!!
Tink...



Good way to get yourself into trouble around here.
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 10:48:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tinkeroni:Someone said; "There have been quite a few complaints about wolf ammo from many here. I'll try to summarize what I remember.

It has steel cases which, due to their coating and the steel, are hard to extract from the chamber. Remember steel expands when it gets hot.

Not!!! Brass expands more with heat than steel!! and what are these other "quite a few complaints.. We use lots of Wolf at the puppy range with no problems... Tink...



The problem doesn't have much to do with expansion due to heat. Both brass and steel cases will expand to the size of the chamber when a cartridge is fired. Then they will contract somewhat. But brass, being more elastic, will contract more than steel. This, combined with the lack of taper in the 5.56x45 cartridge, can make a case difficult to extract, to say nothing of the lacquer melting.

For what it's worth, I've shot several thousand rounds of lacquered steel cased S&B through my Bushmasters with no extraction problems at all.
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 11:36:25 AM EDT
the WOLF nazi Here! Buy the Wolf ammo and shoot the sh*t out of it! I shoot it in just about every caliber and love it! I have never had any problems with it in my rifles or my pistols. I also have never seen any lacquer "residue" in my rifles after shooting, and I feel it is rumor/myth. Most of the people who don't shoot it, never have! I've shot it....It works.....I'll keep shooting it!

My only suggestion to you (and this goes with ANY ammo) is....TRY IT BEFORE YOU BUY IT!
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 12:26:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tinkeroni:
Someone said; "There have been quite a few complaints about wolf ammo from many here. I'll try to summarize what I remember.

It has steel cases which, due to their coating and the steel, are hard to extract from the chamber. Remember steel expands when it gets hot.

Regarding 55gr vs. 62gr, heavier bullets have better wind bucking ability. Now, if the 62gr ammo is either M855 or SS109 it hase a small steel insert toward the tip which is suppose to improve its penetration at longer distances versus the 55gr M193."


Not!!! Brass expands more with heat than steel!! and what are these other "quite a few complaints.. We use lots of Wolf at the puppy range with no problems... Tink...



Do a search here using "wolf ammo" as the subject. Yes, there are a lot of good reports and a lot of bad reports as well. I think it has a considerable number of bad reports. Before I started reloading I would occasionally use cheap ammo, I found I was not happy with most of it.

Considering the number of negative reports I probably wouldn't use it but if it *works* for someone and they are concerned with cost then its good.

Regarding the cases expanding, I may not have explained that as well as key_mays did, he explained it better. All metals change with temperature.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 11:04:02 AM EDT
I'm almost out of my 1000 rd case of Wolf 62gr 223. In that time I've had NO duds, but just today had not one but two cases stuck in the chamber after firing only 60 rounds rather slowly. This is odd considering I've rapid fired many more rounds than that with zero problems with the exact intent of seeing how hot I could get the barrel until a case stuck. The upper is from a J&T ar15a2 kit so it shouldn't have the chrome lined chamber, though the tolerances should be much looser than match uppers.

It sucks when cases get stuck, but it happens so rarely that I wouldn't stop buying Wolf because of it (I might start using Barnaul instead if it turns out it really is more accurate). Right now the count is something like 3 or 4 stuck cases out of about 1000 rounds.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 3:36:35 PM EDT
I have gone threw a lot of Wolf in 223 in my SAR and 40 cal in my beretta 96. at first i was pretty nervous, but i can't think of anything else now for plinking--good stuff don't hate on Wolf
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 5:08:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2002 5:16:31 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By bwiese:
Some have said that the varnish melts in hot chambers but this has been proven not to be true.




Bill,
When, where and by whom was this "proven not to be true"?

If it is a hot enough day and you shoot enough rounds fast enough the chamber will heat up to the point the laqure will melt. Now this is normally not a problem as the rifle is extracting and ejecting the cases beforee the laqure can cause a problem. But if the rifle is allowed to cool with a round in the chamber the melted lagure will essentially glue the round into the chamber as it cools. I can make this occur with any AR & Wolf ammo.
My shooting friends and I have experianced it enough in the deserts of California and Nevada that none of us will use Wolf in our AR's or FNC's.
It is largely an issue of shooting stlye and enviroment. Someone shooting 100 rounds slow fire on a 60 degree day will likely never have a problem. Someone who is doing break contact drills and transition drills on a 100+ degree day will have problems if he allows the weapon to cool with a round in the chamber.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 5:47:25 PM EDT
Works great in the Arizona desert... But it's a dry heat...
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 8:55:50 PM EDT
Buy a case of Wolf and try it out. If it functions, great. If not, send it back to Ammoman. Was that so hard? Personally I love the stuff. Functions perfectly in my Bushy. My Ruger .45 eats it like candy. I also use Wolf Match .22LR,( but this is made in Germany under the Wolf name.) Do the Germans make anything poorly?
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