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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 1/13/2015 3:12:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/13/2015 3:34:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX:
So this has been on the radar for a while now but my buddy has a set that he is offering to me at a decent price. He has a PVS7B (gen3) that he no longer needs as he upgraded to PVS 14's. I would mainly use it for SHTF scenarios, night shoots and general fun. I have a Kevlar helmet that I would want to mount them too.

I see a lot of guys with pvs14's but I cant justify paying 4k for them. 1200 is more in my price range. I talked to my other buddy and he seems to think I can find some 14's for only a few hundred bucks more. Any help there?

Ideas, thoughts? Thank you.
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PVS-7B is a very decent device. Some people here swear by them and prefer them over the 14s... (I am building a 7 right now and I have two PVS-14 (Pitbulls, which are micro PVS-14s))

For 1200 you could also buy a used PVS-14 in the EE or luck out on eBay; just don't expect the latest and greatest IIT tube inside...

Several people here also sell used gear at very reasonable prices too, so I would wait until more people chime in with their advice.

G.
Link Posted: 1/13/2015 4:31:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/13/2015 4:51:12 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX:
Thanks. I am trying to read as much as I can on nv. Lots to learn...
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Dino and David (cj7hawk) are two of the experts who visit regularly... hopefully they can chime in and share their thoughts.

Anything US made, (even the good old PVS-5s, are pretty decent for most applications. The higher the number doesn't mean the better, but in general that is true. However, a PVS-7D with the latest Pinnacle tube will beat a PVS-14 with an older Omni III or IV tube... so greater number doesn't mean better...

G.
Link Posted: 1/13/2015 5:11:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2015 5:12:45 PM EST by xLucidx]
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Originally Posted By gman1971:


Dino and David (cj7hawk) are two of the experts who visit regularly... hopefully they can chime in and share their thoughts.

Anything US made, (even the good old PVS-5s, are pretty decent for most applications. The higher the number doesn't mean the better, but in general that is true. However, a PVS-7D with the latest Pinnacle tube will beat a PVS-14 with an older Omni III or IV tube... so greater number doesn't mean better...

G.
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Originally Posted By gman1971:
Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX:
Thanks. I am trying to read as much as I can on nv. Lots to learn...


Dino and David (cj7hawk) are two of the experts who visit regularly... hopefully they can chime in and share their thoughts.

Anything US made, (even the good old PVS-5s, are pretty decent for most applications. The higher the number doesn't mean the better, but in general that is true. However, a PVS-7D with the latest Pinnacle tube will beat a PVS-14 with an older Omni III or IV tube... so greater number doesn't mean better...

G.



this, they may even be able to point you on to a deal.

or Horta as well. just keep your eyes peeled for a deal and have funds in hand ready to jump.

just over christmas I found a deal on a brand spanking new pvs14 with filmless tube for 2k with 5 year warranty on everything (which Horta grabbed). $1500 for a used unit certainly is not out of the question by any means.
Link Posted: 1/13/2015 5:19:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2015 7:48:14 PM EST by coctailer]
Not sure what that means......<coctailer>
Link Posted: 1/13/2015 6:43:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2015 7:44:16 PM EST by coctailer]
This forum is for technical discussion, not selling........... <coctailer>
Link Posted: 1/13/2015 6:51:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2015 7:49:09 PM EST by coctailer]
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Originally Posted By DoubleTap124:
I'm new here
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You got to pay to advertise on ARF. Just a FYI before the mod gets you.
Link Posted: 1/13/2015 7:45:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2015 7:48:46 PM EST by coctailer]
Link Posted: 1/13/2015 8:19:43 PM EST
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Originally Posted By gman1971:


Dino and David (cj7hawk) are two of the experts who visit regularly... hopefully they can chime in and share their thoughts.

Anything US made, (even the good old PVS-5s, are pretty decent for most applications. The higher the number doesn't mean the better, but in general that is true. However, a PVS-7D with the latest Pinnacle tube will beat a PVS-14 with an older Omni III or IV tube... so greater number doesn't mean better...

G.
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Originally Posted By gman1971:
Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX:
Thanks. I am trying to read as much as I can on nv. Lots to learn...


Dino and David (cj7hawk) are two of the experts who visit regularly... hopefully they can chime in and share their thoughts.

Anything US made, (even the good old PVS-5s, are pretty decent for most applications. The higher the number doesn't mean the better, but in general that is true. However, a PVS-7D with the latest Pinnacle tube will beat a PVS-14 with an older Omni III or IV tube... so greater number doesn't mean better...

G.


Significant improvement seems to have taken place between OMNI III and OMNI IV. I have a plenty decent OMNI IV that I actually go to as much or more than my OMNI VII PVS-14...there is just something about it that seems "right"....maybe it is the "green" versus the "yellowish-green".....dunno.
Link Posted: 1/13/2015 8:34:06 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TheHorta:
Not sure what that means......<coctailer>
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My apologies. I need to be less "dramatic" sometimes lest I give the wrong idea.

If the OP is looking for something "cheap" in the way of used NV, but lacks experience, he can easily spend good money on bad items. Used NV is a bit of a minefield. Some make it through unscathed, but more by luck than anything else.

I was offering a helping hand to navigate that field and help get him something "on the cheap" without worrying about getting a $1000 paperweight.

Link Posted: 1/13/2015 9:26:36 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TheHorta:
Not sure what that means......<coctailer>
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Link Posted: 1/13/2015 9:42:05 PM EST
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Originally Posted By gman1971:


Dino and David (cj7hawk) are two of the experts who visit regularly... hopefully they can chime in and share their thoughts.

Anything US made, (even the good old PVS-5s, are pretty decent for most applications. The higher the number doesn't mean the better, but in general that is true. However, a PVS-7D with the latest Pinnacle tube will beat a PVS-14 with an older Omni III or IV tube... so greater number doesn't mean better...

G.
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Originally Posted By gman1971:
Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX:
Thanks. I am trying to read as much as I can on nv. Lots to learn...


Dino and David (cj7hawk) are two of the experts who visit regularly... hopefully they can chime in and share their thoughts.

Anything US made, (even the good old PVS-5s, are pretty decent for most applications. The higher the number doesn't mean the better, but in general that is true. However, a PVS-7D with the latest Pinnacle tube will beat a PVS-14 with an older Omni III or IV tube... so greater number doesn't mean better...

G.


Well technically real PVS-14's were made with OMNI4 and later tubes. But yeah, you can end up with a garage build with an omni2 anvis tube in one.

To the OP, PVS-7s with a good tube are good to go, and in some ways more comfortable than the 14's. The bonus of the 14 is the versatility.

Link Posted: 1/13/2015 10:01:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2015 10:03:50 PM EST by Dino1130]
I like the Micro and Envis scopes. I like PVS-7 scopes if I am not doing much more than a slow walk. I like them because I feel they are well balanced and easy to wear for extended viewing. I also use my 14 very often. My go to is probably the 14 or Micro as they are both the most versatile as already mentioned.

If I don't have exact plans for the evening I will grab the 14 because it can do most everything. Every scope is a trade off for something. If I could only afford one scope it would be a 14 or Micro. NV really depends on what you want to do with the scope. I don't mount my scopes on a rifle so I can see a IR laser with a PVS-7 or a 14. The 14 gives better situational awareness as one eye is unaided.

Unless in total blackout conditions (rarely is this the case) the unaided eye gives wider FOV and some depth perception. The Micro would do the same thing as a 14 but has no adjustable gain. The Envis scopes I take apart and use the parts to build a Micro. If you want to learn a Envis project is a easy build. A 14 build is not hard with some experience but it would not be my choice for a new person getting his feet wet.

They are a bit more complicated than a Micro build. The bonus is a Envis tube will also work in a 14 if you upgrade (no variable gain). A PVS-7 tube with few exceptions only works in the 7 series as it is a non inverting tube and physically not the same size as a MX-11769 or MX-10160 tube. The 11769 and 10160 are the same tube module and have the same physical size. The only difference is one has a pigtail for variable gain and the other does not.

Tubes come in all flavors and performance levels. The key to not be taken in a used buy is to be informed. Tons of guys here will help you.
Link Posted: 1/13/2015 10:34:03 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/13/2015 10:43:48 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX:

After googling I found a wide range of options. 200$ pvs14 all the way up past 4k. The used market is scary like previously stated. Who knows what bubba hacked together in his basement.

The huge + to the pvs 7 is my buddy will let me make a few payments on the unit. That will make it a easier transaction for me.
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I'm guessing those $200 units you saw are not real PVS14's. They are just a cheap digital night vision toy made to look like a PVS14.
Link Posted: 1/13/2015 10:46:06 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/13/2015 11:48:16 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX:


Yeah. They are Chinese versions.

http://www.amazon.com/Canis-Latran-PVS-14-Night-Vision/dp/B00KF3UITU
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Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX:
Originally Posted By GotM118LR:
Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX:

After googling I found a wide range of options. 200$ pvs14 all the way up past 4k. The used market is scary like previously stated. Who knows what bubba hacked together in his basement.

The huge + to the pvs 7 is my buddy will let me make a few payments on the unit. That will make it a easier transaction for me.


I'm guessing those $200 units you saw are not real PVS14's. They are just a cheap digital night vision toy made to look like a PVS14.


Yeah. They are Chinese versions.

http://www.amazon.com/Canis-Latran-PVS-14-Night-Vision/dp/B00KF3UITU


That's the problem with NV. I read the "reviews" on that $200 POS and some people think it's great. While I'm sure some are shills, others clearly don't know what they're talking about. It's NOT, in any way, shape, or form, a night vision device. Your iPhone will perform better with an IR illuminator. It's NOT a PVS-14 any more than a Fisher Price Enzo is a Ferrari.

How many people get suckered into thinking they have a "PVS-14" or "Night Vision" when they get one must be staggering. "Why would I pay $3,000 when I can get one on Amazon brand new for $200?"

Sad.
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 1:15:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/14/2015 1:48:15 AM EST by DevilWillCry]
I second the Micro or Micro/Envis hybrid. This was my very first venture into the NV world. Its price to performance is probably the best bang for your buck you can get with gen 3. The micro uses MX10160 tubes which is also probably the best bang for buck you can get in a tube. My first build cost me $1300. It lacked a autogated power supply and manual gain, but it blew my mind and could easily compete with a lot of factory units.
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 1:40:18 AM EST
You don't need to go as far as an iPhone man, your SONY Handycam from 1993 with NightShot will be just as good (if not better) than these and will offer 25X optical zoom with quality optics... Avoid those... I am amazed people sell those for 300 bucks... someone is making a killing.

Real digital NV is extremely expensive...

G.

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Originally Posted By TheHorta:


That's the problem with NV. I read the "reviews" on that $200 POS and some people think it's great. While I'm sure some are shills, others clearly don't know what they're talking about. It's NOT, in any way, shape, or form, a night vision device. Your iPhone will perform better with an IR illuminator. It's NOT a PVS-14 any more than a Fisher Price Enzo is a Ferrari.

How many people get suckered into thinking they have a "PVS-14" or "Night Vision" when they get one must be staggering. "Why would I pay $3,000 when I can get one on Amazon brand new for $200?"

Sad.
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Originally Posted By TheHorta:
Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX:
Originally Posted By GotM118LR:
Originally Posted By TOTHEMAX:

After googling I found a wide range of options. 200$ pvs14 all the way up past 4k. The used market is scary like previously stated. Who knows what bubba hacked together in his basement.

The huge + to the pvs 7 is my buddy will let me make a few payments on the unit. That will make it a easier transaction for me.


I'm guessing those $200 units you saw are not real PVS14's. They are just a cheap digital night vision toy made to look like a PVS14.


Yeah. They are Chinese versions.

http://www.amazon.com/Canis-Latran-PVS-14-Night-Vision/dp/B00KF3UITU


That's the problem with NV. I read the "reviews" on that $200 POS and some people think it's great. While I'm sure some are shills, others clearly don't know what they're talking about. It's NOT, in any way, shape, or form, a night vision device. Your iPhone will perform better with an IR illuminator. It's NOT a PVS-14 any more than a Fisher Price Enzo is a Ferrari.

How many people get suckered into thinking they have a "PVS-14" or "Night Vision" when they get one must be staggering. "Why would I pay $3,000 when I can get one on Amazon brand new for $200?"

Sad.

Link Posted: 1/14/2015 2:09:39 AM EST
Sure more expensive is usually better, but often relatively cheap and used is good enough. I just bought my first gen 3 scope last summer, I have owned gen 1 and gen 2 stuff over the last nearly 20 years, and finally picked up a used 15 year old Omni IV PVS-14 on a local word of mouth deal for about $1,300, including the usual accessories (skull crusher, bag, etc) Sure sometimes I think it would be nice if it were better / newer, but the truth is when I look at some comparisons like http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/435456_US_Gen_3_OMNI_Direct_Comparison_Pics__OMNI_II___OMNI_VII_and_Filmless_Under_Starlight_Conditions.html I have to ask myself if a filmless tube PVS-14 is really worth 3 times the money. This is compared to the night and day differences between Gen 1, Gen 2, and modern Gen 3
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 10:02:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 10:20:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/14/2015 10:21:28 AM EST by Spartikis]
I got my used PVS-14 for under $1,500 off of craigslist so it is def possible to find a used one at a decent price. Just got to be careful and do your research. When i decided i wanted one i took nearly 6 months and did research here and other sites, watched youtube videos all while constantly searching for good deals. Def not a market you want to jump into without knowledge or you will get burned, to easy for people to pass off a gen 2 as a gen 3 or even a digital as real NV (like those $200 units you were looking at).

But its all worth it, honestly the first time i took my PVS-14 into the backyard when it was dark my jaw dropped, it was crazy what i could see. I understand why the military likes doing operations at night, it really does give them a huge advantage.
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 11:12:27 AM EST
How many people get suckered into thinking they have a "PVS-14" or "Night Vision" when they get one must be staggering. "Why would I pay $3,000 when I can get one on Amazon brand new for $200?"

Sad.
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Sort of like the people that don't understand spending over $2,000 for a pair of Leica binoculars when they can get the same magnification for $50 at Wal-Mart. They just don't know because they haven't had the chance to see the difference for themselves.

I got schooled by my supervisor who was a Master optician years ago when he showed me what quality optics can do compared to the cheap stuff in a side by side.
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 5:28:29 PM EST
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Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:


Sort of like the people that don't understand spending over $2,000 for a pair of Leica binoculars when they can get the same magnification for $50 at Wal-Mart. They just don't know because they haven't had the chance to see the difference for themselves.

I got schooled by my supervisor who was a Master optician years ago when he showed me what quality optics can do compared to the cheap stuff in a side by side.
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Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
How many people get suckered into thinking they have a "PVS-14" or "Night Vision" when they get one must be staggering. "Why would I pay $3,000 when I can get one on Amazon brand new for $200?"

Sad.


Sort of like the people that don't understand spending over $2,000 for a pair of Leica binoculars when they can get the same magnification for $50 at Wal-Mart. They just don't know because they haven't had the chance to see the difference for themselves.

I got schooled by my supervisor who was a Master optician years ago when he showed me what quality optics can do compared to the cheap stuff in a side by side.


Yes, just like most people who've never driven a Lamborghini (including me), and are accustomed to Ford Focus (more like what I drive).... once you drive a Lambo you realize your Focus might not be as neat as you though.... but of course, not everyone can settle for a Lambo.

I tried the PVS-14 eyepiece on my Mak telescope and the sharpness and clarity that these eyepieces provide vs. the standard 29$ dollar Orion Plossl is something you need to see to believe. So I believe the 2k leica will smoke the cheap stuff...

G.
Link Posted: 1/14/2015 6:43:41 PM EST
So I believe the 2k leica will smoke the cheap stuff...
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Oh it did lol.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 7:45:44 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 7:58:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 7:58:31 PM EST by AlmightyTallest]
No autofocus for any night vision, the IR setting means it has a small IR illuminator for really dark areas, usually indoors. The standard on setting is just the image intensifier on, no IR light.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:06:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:07:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:34:44 PM EST
Sometimes it's just dust, but many tubes have some small spots as a process in how they are manufactured.

Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:41:08 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:32:50 PM EST
It can be a process if it's inside the device. Between the objective lens and the front of the image tube. Or on the back end of the tube and the ocular eyepieces. There's some pretty experienced PVS-7 owners that might be able to help you with that though.
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