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Posted: 8/19/2005 11:33:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2005 11:35:25 AM EDT by Hokie]
rant on.....

I don't get it. I didn't like it one bit. The actions next to your ear , the optic is fixed with no BUIS, it's not balanced well, the mag change-outs are a pain in the ass, the sling options are limited (to one), and it's ugly. What's it offer that justifies it's price?

I hope it's not because it's British....

All with a price tag over $2500.....why? The AR15 is such a better instrument. Clearly.

I don't get it. I'd rather purchase an SL8 Which is another rant for another thread....how can a company that makes such fine handguns make such an abomination?

rant off, have a nice weekend.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:43:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2005 11:44:46 AM EDT by HardShell]
Because Alexander Godunov looked just oh so cool one-handing the thing in Die Hard...

(Edited to fix the Commie spelling...)
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:52:56 AM EDT
Bullpups are teh suck.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 1:11:12 PM EDT
By the way they are not English, but Austrian, I kind of feel like you do about them, Way too expensive for what they are. But Sonny Crockett did use one on Miami Vice once, don't think he ever shot it though.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 1:13:51 PM EDT
FYI the AUG is Austrian, the BUIS is on top of the fixed 1.5x optic and Wilderness makes a tac sling for it. It is a piston operated upper with chrome bore and chamber, quick change barrel system and with the A2 models and USR you can remove the optic and put in a rail system. Overall length with a 20" barrel is shorter than my 16" barrelled AR with collapsible stock.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 1:29:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2005 1:31:54 PM EDT by HK_DUDE]
Yes, the built in Iron sights give you about a 5" sight radius.

I actually kind of like the looks of them and have owned a USR, but I coulnd't find anything about them that would justify the price of 2 well equipped ARs either....sold it.

P.S....they sure do shoot clean though....I would run 100-200 rounds through it (I know that is not a bunch or anything) at the range and take it apart to clean...there was nothing to clean....I have to give it that.

Now I still own 7 ARs, so don't get me wrong........
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:08:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
rant on.....

I don't get it. I didn't like it one bit. The actions next to your ear , the optic is fixed with no BUIS, it's not balanced well, the mag change-outs are a pain in the ass, the sling options are limited (to one), and it's ugly. What's it offer that justifies it's price?

I hope it's not because it's British....

All with a price tag over $2500.....why? The AR15 is such a better instrument. Clearly.

I don't get it. I'd rather purchase an SL8 Which is another rant for another thread....how can a company that makes such fine handguns make such an abomination?

rant off, have a nice weekend.



Your rant is your opinion, just like IMO the AUG is great.
As pointed out the AUG does have back up sights.

Mag changes may seem slow to the AR fans, but like anything else with a little practice mag changes can be very fast.

If you must add on a four way rail like a ARyou can. B&T sells them through DSA. The A2 and USR models can have different optics, like a AR.

As for price, it is what it is. The AUG is a rare gun so it costs $2500 and up. Why does a Galil or FNC cost so much. One reason they are banned, and there fore rare.


IMO the AUG is a very well balanced rifle, great ergonomics. And the AUG is a rifle that was ahead of its time. Look at how the M4 has replaced the M16. And how low power scopes and Aimpoints have replaced fixed sights.
The AUG had all that. It is compact, has a low power scope, fore grip, a quick change barrel and this was issued as the standard military weapon in 1977.

Now Steyr has the AUG A3 which is a updated A2 with many features that AR fans would love, but it can not be imported into the country.



Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:37:57 PM EDT
Hiya,

I got to fire the AUG while i was serving with the UN., back in 199?. We all got a mag with ten rounds, the Austrian troops went ape because we all let them off on full automatic. Well we didnt really, we were just good british soldiers observing our marksmanship principles, how were we to know that they went full auto if you held and kept the trigger to the rear after the shot had been released. Needless to say they didnt want to give us another mag & ammo to get it right.

I have since fired the civilian version that they market here in Germany. I didnt like the trigger on that either, even if it didnt go full auto on me.

I'm thinking of buying a Sabre defence M-4, and would like some feedback.

Toemag
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:58:57 PM EDT
Pssh. I wish I could even see an Aug in real life. If somebody wants me to borrow their AUG, I'll do that for ya.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 3:35:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 3:37:24 PM EDT
I held one the other day, I kinda liked it, if it was cheaper Id get it
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 6:19:32 PM EDT
I've owned 2. Loved them both but everything has a selling price. I reached mine on both of them. If you handle one enough, you can do a very rapid mag change.
I didn't mind the action being where it was located. Can't wait for the FN2000 to come out.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 6:44:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UZI4you:

Your rant is your opinion, just like IMO the AUG is great.
As pointed out the AUG does have back up sights.

Mag changes may seem slow to the AR fans, but like anything else with a little practice mag changes can be very fast.

If you must add on a four way rail like a ARyou can. B&T sells them through DSA. The A2 and USR models can have different optics, like a AR.

As for price, it is what it is. The AUG is a rare gun so it costs $2500 and up. Why does a Galil or FNC cost so much. One reason they are banned, and there fore rare.


IMO the AUG is a very well balanced rifle, great ergonomics. And the AUG is a rifle that was ahead of its time. Look at how the M4 has replaced the M16. And how low power scopes and Aimpoints have replaced fixed sights.
The AUG had all that. It is compact, has a low power scope, fore grip, a quick change barrel and this was issued as the standard military weapon in 1977.

Now Steyr has the AUG A3 which is a updated A2 with many features that AR fans would love, but it can not be imported into the country.






+1. I'd take an AUG-P over an AR platform ANY DAY OF THE WEEK........and I LOVE the AR15/M16.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 7:53:48 PM EDT
they arent ugly imho, they are one the best looking guns out there
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 8:05:14 PM EDT
I have owned an AUG for years......thousands of rounds.......not one single malfunction of any kind. The tip of the hammer was worn down, top of the bolt (non roller) showed wear, stock was all dinged to hell. Magazines work, even 42 rounders, but they develop cracks at the lip........which you can see and discard before failure........even then they lasted, loaded 1 down, longer than expected. Rarely needs cleaning....even the piston. Well balanced and compact. Superior to an AR in ruggedness, reliability, and longevity.

Downside........no spare parts, expensive as hell, smoke from ejection port in your face, 16" is outright loud in your face, squirtgun trigger, limited optic, no (real) iron sights, pistol grip forend can burn your hand, infinite options with accessories with AR-15s that AUGs never developed.

The AUG is a very nice rifle, but the AR-15 is the best bang per buck rifle ever that you can get.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 9:33:50 PM EDT
I have a AUG 20 and an USR.

First there is no recoil what so ever. Followup shots are amazingly fast.

Its probably the best rifle caliber weapon for firing from inside a vehicle. About the size of most subguns with the 14 or 16 inch barrel.

Very accurate, very clean shooting.

You can buy a stock that will allow you to use AR mags. The original polymer mags are tough as hell, much more so then any AR mag.

You can make it eject left or right. Great for lefties like me.

But extremely expensive and parts are getting to be more expensive and rare. PJS has them.


Link Posted: 8/19/2005 9:48:35 PM EDT
I once shot a full auto aug, and an M16 at the same time. The aug was more compact, but it was back heavy and the trigger pull was at least 30 lbs. The M16 had less muzzel climb, thus easier to control.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 11:54:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
All with a price tag over $2500.



Well, if things go as rumors have indicated (that Steyr is building a US factory, not DSA building a US version), you might be able to pick up the latest model developed for less than $1600 MSRP next year:

Link Posted: 8/20/2005 12:42:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Madness:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
All with a price tag over $2500.



Well, if things go as rumors have indicated (that Steyr is building a US factory, not DSA building a US version), you might be able to pick up the latest model developed for less than $1600 MSRP next year:

img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/ColKurtz/augbooklet5pd.jpg


and in 6.8 no less...
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:11:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 7:11:39 AM EDT by str8t1]
You want ugly, check out the FAMAS
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:32:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 5:35:25 PM EDT by Hokie]
I guess at $1600 I could be somewhat convinced to overlook the AUG's design and function

but why? I don't get it. Unless you're simply into 'owning' different stuff....then more power to you.

If I were to purchase a bullpup....correction....if I were to be forced into purchasing a bullpup.....I would get an M17 and send it to KKF. At least it'd have the features I'd want. At $1600 MSRP you're still getting a phunked up firearm.

Let the Brits run around with bullpewps....if I want combustion happening next to my cranium I'll stick a firecracker in my ear.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:33:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By str8t1:
You want ugly, check out the FAMAS



I won't argue that
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 8:34:54 PM EDT
The AUG is very utilitarian compared to the M4. Its much shorter so in vehicular use, its awesome. Good for tank crews and Hummers. The recoil is non-existant. Extremely reliable and no failures. Quick change barrels and stocks. Able to use AR mags with an adaptor stock. Mags are indestructable compared to the AR.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:30:38 PM EDT
My AUG shots better then any of my AR15's as far as acuracy, recoil, and ease of use is conserned.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:36:13 PM EDT
Since I hear all the time from Bullpup rifles detractors that they do not like the Action so close to their head, I have to ask,
Did anyone ever hear of a bullpup designed rifle going KABOOM? & If yes what were the consequences to the shooter?
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:37:02 PM EDT
And they are not building a factory here.......NO Steyr products have ever sold in America....plus Steyr has now pulled ALL suport for all of their products.

That add was made bya DSA employee to see if there was any interest generated.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 5:05:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WS4LIF:
And they are not building a factory here.......NO Steyr products have ever sold in America....plus Steyr has now pulled ALL suport for all of their products.

That add was made bya DSA employee to see if there was any interest generated.



Yep.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 9:21:14 AM EDT
I much prefer a conventional firearm design with the magazine located ahead of the triggerguard.

There is something about that "deodorant" type magazine change, I have a hard time blindly shoving a magazine into a mag well that is located by my shoulder and it seems like I'm much more likely to shove the thing into my armpit completely missing the magazine well.

I prefer the ergonomics of the AR15 over that of any bullpup. My magazine changes are certainly faster and I can fully operate the rifle quickly without looking or dropping the rifle from a low ready position.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 10:31:19 AM EDT
The photo of the AUG-SA on page one is sweet.

I'd have to give that some serious thought, in the incredibly unlikely event they're ever made available.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 10:52:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
I don't get it. I didn't like it one bit. The actions next to your ear , the optic is fixed with no BUIS, it's not balanced well, the mag change-outs are a pain in the ass, the sling options are limited (to one), and it's ugly. What's it offer that justifies it's price?



My brother owns a AUG A2 with the rail. He has an Eotech 552 mounted.
Nowadays it seems en vouge among pros to forget the BUIS for CQB
altogether and use the window of the reddot as a aiming device in case
of electronics failure.

Speaking of CQB, with a 16" barrel it is as short as the 10.5" Ar15 carbines-
which give you poor ballistics, less reliability and horrible blast.

Poorly balanced?? Ever tried to shoot your M4 one handed? I can get fast,
reliable hits at CQ with the AUG in a retention position. Try that with your M4.

Contrary to the M4, the AUG magazines were good to go from the start. They
work and continue to do so. No need for H&K to go over it.

If you want to invest a little, a S&B Short Dot gives you all that you want on an
AUG- even most M4 guys run them without BUIS:


Link Posted: 8/23/2005 1:05:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WS4LIF:
That ad was made bya DSA employee to see if there was any interest generated.



I'm pretty sure that the rumor started after someone talked to Steyr (not DSA) representatives directly at the SHOT SHOW. They were given the brochure shown in the photo on page one of this thread. Maybe this member will show up and enlighten us.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 3:52:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cato:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
I don't get it. I didn't like it one bit. The actions next to your ear , the optic is fixed with no BUIS, it's not balanced well, the mag change-outs are a pain in the ass, the sling options are limited (to one), and it's ugly. What's it offer that justifies it's price?



My brother owns a AUG A2 with the rail. He has an Eotech 552 mounted.
Nowadays it seems en vouge among pros to forget the BUIS for CQB
altogether and use the window of the reddot as a aiming device in case
of electronics failure.

Speaking of CQB, with a 16" barrel it is as short as the 10.5" Ar15 carbines-
which give you poor ballistics, less reliability and horrible blast.

Poorly balanced?? Ever tried to shoot your M4 one handed? I can get fast,
reliable hits at CQ with the AUG in a retention position. Try that with your M4.

Contrary to the M4, the AUG magazines were good to go from the start. They
work and continue to do so. No need for H&K to go over it.

If you want to invest a little, a S&B Short Dot gives you all that you want on an
AUG- even most M4 guys run them without BUIS:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/CatoY2k/Upload2.jpg




Very well put, Cato!!!
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 8:13:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By uglygun:
I much prefer a conventional firearm design with the magazine located ahead of the triggerguard.

There is something about that "deodorant" type magazine change, I have a hard time blindly shoving a magazine into a mag well that is located by my shoulder and it seems like I'm much more likely to shove the thing into my armpit completely missing the magazine well.

I prefer the ergonomics of the AR15 over that of any bullpup. My magazine changes are certainly faster and I can fully operate the rifle quickly without looking or dropping the rifle from a low ready position.



The AUG mag is at your wrist, not behind your shoulder.
I did a few mag change drills tonight with my 20" AUG and 16" DPMS M4. Mag changes with a AR is very fast, however the AUG mag change was only a extra second. So with a little practice one can preform a mag change with a AUG in the same about of time as any other rifle.

Also it is worth noting my mag change was done with the rifle up to my shoulder in a ready postion. My right hand, or trigger finger supported the weapon and with my left hand preformed the mag change, and racked the charging handle.

This was all done with out taking my eye off the scope.

I also used a Lyman digital trigger pull gauge and the DPMS M4 had a trigger pull of 8.2 pounds, and the Steyr AUG had a trigger pull of 7.3 pounds. Of course there are many trigger upgrades for the AR15, but for those who say the AUG has a harsh trigger pull do not know what they are talking about, or are trying to fire the weapon with the safety on.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 8:17:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 0123456789:
Bullpups are teh suck.



+1

I've never liked the Bullpup design. It is clumbsy and ungainly.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 8:33:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Madness:

Originally Posted By WS4LIF:
That ad was made bya DSA employee to see if there was any interest generated.



I'm pretty sure that the rumor started after someone talked to Steyr (not DSA) representatives directly at the SHOT SHOW. They were given the brochure shown in the photo on page one of this thread. Maybe this member will show up and enlighten us.



I personally talked to people at DSA on more than one occasion and was told that they were very seriously considering making a domestic AUG. To the extent that they were in the process of working out the legalities and planned on it being available in late 05, early 06.

How serious? Apparently not very....but those words came directly from DSA.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 3:25:17 PM EDT
I like the three hitmen in "Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man" who wore them under long trench coats and disposed of the mags like they were cost free.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:23:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 6:24:29 PM EDT by bishopm14]

Originally Posted By uglygun:
I much prefer a conventional firearm design with the magazine located ahead of the triggerguard.

There is something about that "deodorant" type magazine change, I have a hard time blindly shoving a magazine into a mag well that is located by my shoulder and it seems like I'm much more likely to shove the thing into my armpit completely missing the magazine well.

I prefer the ergonomics of the AR15 over that of any bullpup. My magazine changes are certainly faster and I can fully operate the rifle quickly without looking or dropping the rifle from a low ready position.



But meanwhile, back in the real world of military small arms instead of the 3-gun match world of small arms, speed of mag changes isn't as big a deal as many here are trying to make it. Fast is always good, but the difference between a two second and a three second mag change ain't gonna get you killed . Little things like cover and concealment are more important and buying the time.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 12:54:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sysop:

I've never liked the Bullpup design. It is clumbsy and ungainly.



The same could be said about an M16 inside vehicles and indoors.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 1:10:43 AM EDT
Excellent shooter, I got to handle one at a ARFCOM shoot and I wouldn't mind having one. I'm still a little scared of a kaboom next to my face though
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 3:25:23 AM EDT
Went shooting with some Australians a few weeks ago. They were carring the A1 version, shot their "CQB" barrel length. I liked it a lot, it was quick and handy. Would prefer the A2 version with a ACOG or Aimpoint on it though. Mag changes were something to get used to, but not that bad. Overall I would love one of my own, too bad they are so damn expensive.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:26:09 AM EDT
I had one when the semi auto first came out....it was around 1987, and even then it was almost 900.00 on my FFL(came from Gun South in Ga.) I liked it alot, but there was one design issue I thought could have been better.....the rear sling swivel was mounted on the cross pin that holds the buttplate on...and the trigger pack/cleaning kit in as well.
I had mine long enough that the cross pin got easier to move over time and any tug on the sling would start the process of it working its way out. (what the hell was they thinking when they made that?) aside from that no real gripes about the one I had
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:38:15 AM EDT
Oh thank goodness! I thought you were going to post a Glowing report on that silly bull pup thing.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:20:27 AM EDT
Odd, I found the Aug's to be well balanced and the sight easy to use. But then I've never liked all the weight and crap hanging on the muzzle end of a gun anyway.

I'd buy one for a reasonable price.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 2:11:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 4:02:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Golovko:

The same could be said about an M16 inside vehicles





Where are you from G, Compton?

Link Posted: 8/27/2005 1:33:43 AM EDT
lol, I was thinking of our troops in Humvees when I said that.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 10:39:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Golovko:
lol, I was thinking of our troops in Humvees when I said that.



Just having some fun...
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 9:06:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ikor:
...I wish they would do something with that mickey mouse trigger. Overweight.



"They" didn't, but WE did!heck
Note that we have upgraded the material to Delrin, and those parts will ship September 21.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 9:27:22 AM EDT
Made it hot.......

Click here for Trigger Tamer
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:19:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UZI4you:

IMO the AUG is a very well balanced rifle, great ergonomics. And the AUG is a rifle that was ahead of its time. Look at how the M4 has replaced the M16. And how low power scopes and Aimpoints have replaced fixed sights.
The AUG had all that. It is compact, has a low power scope, fore grip, a quick change barrel and this was issued as the standard military weapon in 1977.

Now Steyr has the AUG A3 which is a updated A2 with many features that AR fans would love, but it can not be imported into the country.






Agree 110%. I love mine. My only complaint is that it is one heavy bitch for a 16" gun! It balances like a dream. 300yd DoD reticule, 42rd mags, very user friendly.

S.O.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:26:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UZI4you:
Of course there are many trigger upgrades for the AR15, but for those who say the AUG has a harsh trigger pull do not know what they are talking about, or are trying to fire the weapon with the safety on.



+1

Those who say the AUG trigger is so bad probably also have to sit down to pee. Mine is actually pretty crisp.

S.O.
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