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Posted: 8/2/2005 9:47:56 AM EDT
I know you get what you pay for. I'd love a M1A1 but I don't have the cash, and I would like to get something now rather than wait a few months. I am not in love with any particular system. I would like something reliable and as acurate as possible. I'm obvisouly not expecting the quality of a National Match M1A at this price.

Here are some I was thinking of:
PTR 91 SB at $770
R1 A1 FAL $590

Is this CETME $400 total crap? I could get two.

$800 is pretty puch the limit, I still need to get ammo and mags. Any comments or suggestions? BTW I just got done reading Boston's Gun Bible and am on my way to becoming a "rifleman" I would like to keep the cost of the first MBR down so I can affort to get some training with it ASAP. If I fore go the training I could probably pic up a M1A this winter, but I don't want to wait. Advice?

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 10:08:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2005 10:09:13 AM EDT by akethan]
Go with the metric FAL
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 11:35:51 AM EDT
I bought a Century G3 clone last year............complete waste of my money. If you are left handed, (which I am) I don't think you'll like HK style guns anyhoo. The charging handle is too akward in my experance. The gun itself was very rough, fit and finish was poor, but I guess you get what you pay for.
I'll give a +1 to the FAL..........the few I've handled were 100% better in the ergonomics department, and there seems to be more options on what you can do to them. Someday, I'll have enough saved up to buy my own
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 11:55:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By akethan:
Go with the metric FAL

100% agreed.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 12:10:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2005 12:11:23 PM EDT by pyro6988]
I would have to go with a metric fal if you can get only one.

The next one I would get is a PTR 91 K
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 12:12:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 12:16:56 PM EDT
Try this :


If I linked that correctly,the model is the PTR-91 PBWB,from AtlanticFirearms.

Comes with full length 18" threaded barrel,flash hider,and a wide forearm stock
that's already fitted.
Uusually people pay to put those on later.

The listed price of $829 is their regular price.
Just remind them that your an AR-15.com member,and they will give you a

A lot of people that have got this rifle really like it.Including me !

Out of the box with Port surplus I was shooting 1.5 MOA with mine.
After a trigger job ,I'm right at 1 MOA.

These rifles are a fantastic value.
After the 300 round break in period ,I have had no difficulites
of any kind.
I had 2FTEs in the 1st 10 rounds.None since-I'm over 800 rds now.
This rifle is mostly built in the US now.
Within a year or so ,JLD may build all of their own parts in the US
and not use any foreign parts at all.
That means as long as their isn't a ban ,new parts will be made right here.

Alloy mags for these are INSANELY cheap .$2-$3 a piece for new ones.

If the PTR has one disadvantage ,it's that the HK design does not have
the last shot bolt hold open feature.
Neither does the AK-47 ,as well as many military weapons.
It's also NOT a weapon for lefties -out of the box anyway.

The FAL is also a good weapon.
It has the last shot bolt catch feature,but it isn't as manueverable
as the HK.
It's very popular ,but fewer US parts are available .
The FAL has a longer barrel .
Many FALers say the FAL is more accurate than the HK,
but I've never seen one shoot as well that wasn't a
professionnally custom built FAL.
Out of the box the average HK/PTR has been more accurate in my

Of the FAL ,M1A ,AR-10,HK .308 MBR group ,the HK is
the most dependable in the most conditions.

As far as I know ,the M1A is the most accurate past 500 yards ,
where barrel length makes a difference.
If you ever want to turn yours into a sniper rifle,there have been
3 succesful variants of the HK.(PTR)
There have not been any of the FAL.

I'm a little partial .Look around first.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:35:39 PM EDT
Is this the HK you are refering to Cobrasks?

I was thinking about a HK (I'm right handed BTW) and was concerned about the acuracy, How feasable is it to put a longer barrel on?

I'd love to get an M1A1 but I would also like to get some training soon and the more $$ will pospone the training. I just want something effectve in the 250 yrd to 600ish range. I guess. If you have read Bostons Gun Bible on the MBR chapter this is what I am 'shooting for'. I'd get a scoped bolt gun on 30/06 for anything farther.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:00:58 PM EDT
For that price range I'd try an AK VEPR in .308.

20 rd mags are supposed to be available now but be sure you get some before you buy the rifle.

Thumbs down on CETME's and cheapo FAL's.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:17:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:

Originally Posted By akethan:
Go with the metric FAL

100% agreed.


The FAL is well built, reliable, easily repaired with plenty of inexpensive parts available, mags are $5-$10 each, and looks eeeeeeevil!

STG-58s were some of the nicest FALs, and Imbel receivers are well built and built to original specs. After bulding up these guns for customers on Enterprise, Imbel, and Hesse receivers, I decided to only use Imbel and turn down the rest of the customers who brought in the other brands. Hesse is total shit, Enterprise required some machinework (not all of them), and Imbel went together easily.

I used to buy like new STG-58 kits 10 at a time for $100 each back in the day. I took the best parts from many kits and built my own gun on an Imbel. It is sitting in my safe right now.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:24:39 PM EDT
Well, I doesn't seem like too many are reading your post.

You can't build a good quality FAL for $800. I know I've done it. And you won't find a decent used DSA for that price.

Look harder at the PTR. The FAL mind-police will be along anytime now, so get ready for the barage.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 6:11:55 PM EDT
I'm not sure about the availability of STG-58 kits, but surely you can find one for $300 or so. Add $200 for an Imbel receiver, and that leaves you $300 left for the build and refinish. When I was building them I charged $125 for the build, and $90 for the parkerizing.

It would seem that you could indeed get one built for $800. I'm not sure about gunsmith's labor rates in your area. You could always send it out to be done elsewhere.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 6:27:52 PM EDT
Just my thoughts and I will be the 1st to say I don't have a clue about a FAL.

I have a CAI Cetme and granted it wasn't stellar out of the box, in fact it was a PITA to great it cleaned out and smoothed up but with a lot of your time, hot water, good movies and a gloved hand they can be made to run.

I would advise with a Cetme to pick up Alloy G3 mags and file the ears to fit the Cetme Mag Well should you go the Cetme way.

Note on Cetme's with plastic furniture......Don't just go switching to wood as the plastic parts are US made to meet the US Parts Compliance law.

You could also look for a deal on a Norinco/Poly Tech M-14S and do some upgrades with a USGI bolt. I have seen a number of post lately where folks are getting lucky finding Poly Tech/Norinco M-14S/M-305's for $500-650....Nothing wrong with a good Chicom M14 with a few upgrades.

You may even want to consider a CMP M1 Garand, possibly a woodless Dane and send it out to have it rebarreled in .308/7.62.

If you watch and have a couple hundred extra ou can run across SA M1A's in the Black Synthetic stock with a starting bid of around a $1000 or GB.com......No one is buying M1A's at this time and you might bet lucky....SA M1A market is a funny one I find after watching it for about 6 years. From now until a little after Thanksgiving the M1A market is slow as people bought them up from March though May. After Christmas nothing big happens again until after tax time.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 9:35:36 PM EDT
id get the PTR
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 11:16:18 AM EDT

That's the one !

You can add quite a few things to the PTR later on if you
HK made a great deal of mods/packages for the rifle that
will work perfectly on the PTR.
JLD does make longer barrels from time to time,but
currently they do not sell a rifle with one of these
barrels fitted .

I believe ,24inch is the longest barrel they normally produce,
and they don't constantly make them.Just from time to time.
There are other sources though.

Be aware that to change a barrel on this rifle is usually
going to require a smith ,and it isn't cheap.
When JLD made their last batch of 24s I think they were
$150 a piece.(because of the fluted barrel)

250 to 600 yards is about ideal HK range.
Past 500 the difference in bullet velocity due to the 18 unch
barrel has more of an effect.
The velocity difference isn't really that much between
the MBRs.Maybe ,200FPS between the PTR and an M1A .
I'd have to look it up.
I don't see the slightly slower bullet being effected by the wind
or dropping much more under 500 yards.
Past 600 yes ,and it would be very noticable at 800.
How often would you accurately shoot at a target at
that distance ?

(This is where the FAL guys jump in with the blasting clay
pidgeons at 600 yards 1st shot )

At 600 yards I can barely recognize a human in dark colors
in most rural areas around here.

The PTR does have it's bad points,like any other rifle.
It kicks to,just get a rubber buttpad to help.

The FAL does have 2 big advantages to consider .
21 inch barrel versus the 18 inch PTR barrel,
FAL has last shot bolt open,HK doesn't.

I can say ,my PTR feels shorter than it really is in the field,
though heavy .(FAL is heavy to)

You might want to look up the FALfiles and HKweaponsystemsforum
for more info.

Good luck
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 11:19:56 AM EDT
Metric FAL (StG-58), hands down.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 6:38:47 AM EDT
Watch the falfiles for sale forum, there's always a nice completed parts gun coming up for sale. Plus you will see all kinds of different configurations for sale, izzys, heavy barrels, paras, imbels, rhodesians, stg's and g1s. Before you know it you will want one of each and nothing say's MBR like an fal. I don't know if I would go the build it yourself route right now. Receivers are very hard to find and people are asking a mint for an Imbel receiver if you can find one. If you can find the receiver you can get a fal assembled and parked for under $200.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:16:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:49:10 PM EDT
Go STG-58 with the Imbel receiver.
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