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Posted: 2/24/2011 1:16:08 PM EST


But just a MAC10 or something small. Hey - it's a start. Naturally I'll need a can for it . . . so 9MM or .45?

I know a guy that has uppers for both - so he says - I have never seen them, because our shooting schedules haven't worked out.

I am leaning 9MM because ammo is cheaper and a can would be more effective - but in true AR15 fashion - I really want both.

Can anyone who has one or has had one offer an opinion?

Uppers or conversion kits - what kinda cost are we talking about?
Link Posted: 2/24/2011 1:33:19 PM EST
I've seem a couple of Class III MAC 10's for around $3500.00 in .45 and 9mm. An M16 will run about $8,000.00 for a shootable weapon up to $25,000 or more for NIB.

I'm no expert in the Class III arena but I'm sure in the CLASS III section you can find all the information you could ever want about cost and other interesting details.

Good Luck.
Link Posted: 2/24/2011 1:38:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/24/2011 1:38:46 PM EST by Maryland_Shooter]
But, but this is general Class III . . . .

ETA: For 8K I'll take the M16
Link Posted: 2/24/2011 1:38:32 PM EST
MAC 10s are slightly more expensive than MAC 11s simply because there are tons of MAC11s out there.
You can still find MAC11s for under $3K
Link Posted: 2/24/2011 1:39:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By AN94NK:
MAC 10s are slightly more expensive than MAC 11s simply because there are tons of MAC11s out there.
You can still find MAC11s for under $3K


MAC11 vs MAC 10 - any analysis? I know nada - which is why I'm here.
Link Posted: 2/24/2011 2:47:40 PM EST
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=22&t=213538

Tacked thread has all your answers
Link Posted: 2/24/2011 4:48:01 PM EST
SWD m11 .. lots of accessories available! 9mm cause its cheaper to shoot and more caliber friendly suppressors available.
Link Posted: 2/24/2011 5:52:00 PM EST
figure $3500 for a M11/9 and how much you will spend in accesories
I'd holdout for the m16 or MP5
Link Posted: 2/24/2011 7:37:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By cruizer:
figure $3500 for a M11/9 and how much you will spend in accesories
I'd holdout for the m16 or MP5


Or at least hold out for a $6500 Uzi or AC556
Link Posted: 2/24/2011 8:03:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By bigcbass:
Originally Posted By cruizer:
figure $3500 for a M11/9 and how much you will spend in accesories
I'd holdout for the m16 or MP5


Or at least hold out for a $6500 Uzi or AC556


MAYBE the UZI .. but the AC556? Really? versatility wise, magazine wise, money expenditure wise .. that is probably the worst buy on the NFA market as far as I'm concerned. and YES .. I've been around both plenty.

I still stand by my recomendation for the M11 and accessorizing it .. its the poor man's MP5 and a HELL of a lot of fun when set up right.
Link Posted: 2/25/2011 3:46:28 AM EST
M-11 with Lage slow fire upper, best NFA auto for the cash period.
Link Posted: 2/25/2011 5:17:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By cruizer:
figure $3500 for a M11/9 and how much you will spend in accesories
I'd holdout for the m16 or MP5

Why is this always the recommendation? Hold out for an M16 or an MP5? An MP5 would quadruple his investment - at the least. When was the last time you saw even a sear go for <$11.5k? Then add in the cost of a host gun and he is easily 4x over what his initial budget. Hell, even a cheap M16 is more than double his current budget - closer to triple on the average. That's a lot of coin to hold out for.
Link Posted: 2/25/2011 6:58:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By andrasik:

Originally Posted By cruizer:
figure $3500 for a M11/9 and how much you will spend in accesories
I'd holdout for the m16 or MP5

Why is this always the recommendation? Hold out for an M16 or an MP5? An MP5 would quadruple his investment - at the least. When was the last time you saw even a sear go for <$11.5k? Then add in the cost of a host gun and he is easily 4x over what his initial budget. Hell, even a cheap M16 is more than double his current budget - closer to triple on the average. That's a lot of coin to hold out for.


I'll not likely be able to get her to spring 12K - I'd have to save for like 4 years and who knows what prices will be by then.
Link Posted: 2/25/2011 7:06:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Originally Posted By andrasik:

Originally Posted By cruizer:
figure $3500 for a M11/9 and how much you will spend in accesories
I'd holdout for the m16 or MP5

Why is this always the recommendation? Hold out for an M16 or an MP5? An MP5 would quadruple his investment - at the least. When was the last time you saw even a sear go for <$11.5k? Then add in the cost of a host gun and he is easily 4x over what his initial budget. Hell, even a cheap M16 is more than double his current budget - closer to triple on the average. That's a lot of coin to hold out for.


I'll not likely be able to get her to spring 12K - I'd have to save for like 4 years and who knows what prices will be by then.
Yep. I had the same thought a couple of months ago.

An M11/9 is a sweet first MG IMO. Toss a Lage slowfire upper on there and you are set.

Link Posted: 2/25/2011 9:18:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By andrasik:

Originally Posted By cruizer:
figure $3500 for a M11/9 and how much you will spend in accesories
I'd holdout for the m16 or MP5

Why is this always the recommendation? Hold out for an M16 or an MP5? An MP5 would quadruple his investment - at the least. When was the last time you saw even a sear go for <$11.5k? Then add in the cost of a host gun and he is easily 4x over what his initial budget. Hell, even a cheap M16 is more than double his current budget - closer to triple on the average. That's a lot of coin to hold out for.


do you own M16, MP5 or M11/9?

the lage upper is the first fix for a M11/9, next problem is mags, M11/9 mags suck,

no matter what upper you put on a M11/9 nd what mag you cnvert or us in the M11/9 you are still shooting a open bolt bolt subgun
Link Posted: 2/25/2011 10:19:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/25/2011 1:41:55 PM EST by damcv62]
Originally Posted By cruizer:
Originally Posted By andrasik:

Originally Posted By cruizer:
figure $3500 for a M11/9 and how much you will spend in accesories
I'd holdout for the m16 or MP5

Why is this always the recommendation? Hold out for an M16 or an MP5? An MP5 would quadruple his investment - at the least. When was the last time you saw even a sear go for <$11.5k? Then add in the cost of a host gun and he is easily 4x over what his initial budget. Hell, even a cheap M16 is more than double his current budget - closer to triple on the average. That's a lot of coin to hold out for.


do you own M16, MP5 or M11/9?

the lage upper is the first fix for a M11/9, next problem is mags, M11/9 mags suck,

no matter what upper you put on a M11/9 nd what mag you cnvert or us in the M11/9 you are still shooting a open bolt bolt subgun



You say it like owning a MAC is a bad thing.


Lots of people own them. Lots of people love them. Are they on the same level as a MP5 or a M16? No. But that is like trying to compare a yugo to a benz. Sure, they are both cars. But they aren't even in the same ball park. You usually get more for what you pay for. If he said he had $6500, what should he get? Ok, then I could see telling him to save a bit more and hold out for an M16. But he is looking for sub $4k. So go with a Mac, get a lage slow fire upper, and be happy. Heck, guys are shooting them in subgun matches and beating guys shooting $16k MP5's.

I have owned all three, so I feel I can talk about which options there are one he should get(that just didn't sound right, didn't mean to sound like an overbearing jerk, this is the one you have to get!!!!).

Sure, if he wanted to save for another 4 years, then I'd tell him to do an M16. But if he got the go ahead for an MG, and $4k is his budget, I'd tell him do the Mac 11, get the upper, buy a bunch of mags, and some cases of ammo with anything he has left. The Mac 10 isn't a bad option either, you can shoot that one in .45 or 9mm, but I think you'd find you mostly run it in 9mm. Seeing as the Mac 11 will be a little cheaper for you on the get go, that is why I would suggest that one anyway.
Link Posted: 2/25/2011 11:01:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By cruizer:
Originally Posted By andrasik:

Originally Posted By cruizer:
figure $3500 for a M11/9 and how much you will spend in accesories
I'd holdout for the m16 or MP5

Why is this always the recommendation? Hold out for an M16 or an MP5? An MP5 would quadruple his investment - at the least. When was the last time you saw even a sear go for <$11.5k? Then add in the cost of a host gun and he is easily 4x over what his initial budget. Hell, even a cheap M16 is more than double his current budget - closer to triple on the average. That's a lot of coin to hold out for.


do you own M16, MP5 or M11/9?

the lage upper is the first fix for a M11/9, next problem is mags, M11/9 mags suck,

no matter what upper you put on a M11/9 nd what mag you cnvert or us in the M11/9 you are still shooting a open bolt bolt subgun

Your question is irrelevant to my comment above. I've shot all 3 - but no, I don't own any. That doesn't disqualify or in any way discredit my argument.

My point still stands: you made the jump from ~$4k worth of NFA items to $8.5k AT LEAST. Jumping to an MP5 (let's call $12k a deal) still triples his starting money.

This is equivalent to pointing someone to a Camaro SS when they asked about a Kia Optima or to a Dillon 1050 when they asked about a Hornady LnL. It just doesn't make sense.

That's all I'm saying.
Link Posted: 2/25/2011 2:24:35 PM EST
Hopefully this helps. M-11/9 with all of the Lage goodies... as well as the stock upper.










Link Posted: 2/25/2011 3:37:54 PM EST
I've been thinking about getting one in 380, just because I hear they are a bullet hose in that caliber. I would get one just for the smile factor just like my V-51 u sent the F4 out on the other day. Completley impractical but fun and cool looking to shoot, not too much though as I think the concussion gave me a headache.
Link Posted: 2/25/2011 4:36:09 PM EST
A friend of mine who is an 07/C2 modified his MAC10 in 9mm to accept Glock magazines. He emailed me pics - I just shook my head.
Link Posted: 2/25/2011 5:14:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By sardo_67:
I've been thinking about getting one in 380, just because I hear they are a bullet hose in that caliber. I would get one just for the smile factor just like my V-51 u sent the F4 out on the other day. Completley impractical but fun and cool looking to shoot, not too much though as I think the concussion gave me a headache.


I've thought the same thing. Just to have a bullet hose.
Link Posted: 2/25/2011 5:17:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bubbles:
A friend of mine who is an 07/C2 modified his MAC10 in 9mm to accept Glock magazines. He emailed me pics - I just shook my head.


That is cool. I'd love to be able to run 33rd glock mags on it. Easy and cheap to get mags for them. I saw some guy that made a beta tower for glock style mags. That would be really cool.
Link Posted: 3/4/2011 2:09:47 AM EST
Yeah I saw a mod to run both Uzi and Glock mags, 9MM.

So I could find mags for cheap in 9MM - now whether they run or not is a different question. However, no mags in .45 were found . . .

Lage has a slow fire upper for $895 Yeah - getting a little pricey now
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 8:13:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/9/2011 11:46:51 AM EST by cyborg543]
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Originally Posted By cruizer:
Originally Posted By andrasik:

Originally Posted By cruizer:
figure $3500 for a M11/9 and how much you will spend in accesories
I'd holdout for the m16 or MP5

Why is this always the recommendation? Hold out for an M16 or an MP5? An MP5 would quadruple his investment - at the least. When was the last time you saw even a sear go for <$11.5k? Then add in the cost of a host gun and he is easily 4x over what his initial budget. Hell, even a cheap M16 is more than double his current budget - closer to triple on the average. That's a lot of coin to hold out for.


do you own M16, MP5 or M11/9?

the lage upper is the first fix for a M11/9, next problem is mags, M11/9 mags suck,

no matter what upper you put on a M11/9 nd what mag you cnvert or us in the M11/9 you are still shooting a open bolt bolt subgun



You say it like owning a MAC is a bad thing.


Lots of people own them. Lots of people love them. Are they on the same level as a MP5 or a M16? No. But that is like trying to compare a yugo to a benz. Sure, they are both cars. But they aren't even in the same ball park. You usually get more for what you pay for. If he said he had $6500, what should he get? Ok, then I could see telling him to save a bit more and hold out for an M16. But he is looking for sub $4k. So go with a Mac, get a lage slow fire upper, and be happy. Heck, guys are shooting them in subgun matches and beating guys shooting $16k MP5's.

I have owned all three, so I feel I can talk about which options there are one he should get(that just didn't sound right, didn't mean to sound like an overbearing jerk, this is the one you have to get!!!!).

Sure, if he wanted to save for another 4 years, then I'd tell him to do an M16. But if he got the go ahead for an MG, and $4k is his budget, I'd tell him do the Mac 11, get the upper, buy a bunch of mags, and some cases of ammo with anything he has left. The Mac 10 isn't a bad option either, you can shoot that one in .45 or 9mm, but I think you'd find you mostly run it in 9mm. Seeing as the Mac 11 will be a little cheaper for you on the get go, that is why I would suggest that one anyway.


I do not own any FA guns and I’ll probably never get around to buying one, it seems permanently on the back burner for me.

But if I did, the MAC would be my first choice as a FA gun.

I've toyed with the idea of getting an FA about 10 times over my life and ended up studying all the options in great detail.

The MAC isn't a “yugo”. It’s is more like an F150 with a 6 cylinder engine, steel hubcaps and crank windows.

The MACs are a very rugged, simple firearm. Aside from melting it in a furnace, it appears that there's hardly anything you can do to it that cannot be easily fixed.

They are cheap because there are a lot of them around, not because they are a bad gun. The CIA and special forces saw fit to use them in VN, what does that tell you?

Because they are so common and easy to customize, they have a ton of spare parts and accessories.

The magazine problem is not a big deal, you can get 9mm zytels and steel PAM magazines for like $20. If you get an UZI magwell conversion for $300, you can use $10 uzi mags. The only really expensive MAC mags are the original Walther 9mm mags for the 45 to 9mm conversion, they are around $100.

The lage uppers are excellent, they make the MAC as competitive as guns costing $15K.

You can still get them NIB for around $3K. Can you think of any other FA gun that you can even find NIB? You will not see a M16 NIB for less than $18K. A NIB Vector UZI is around $8K and very hard to find.

Most of the really nifty FA stuff is well over $10K now. At around $5K you have stuff like M2 carbines and Reising SMGs. At around $6-$8K you have UZIs, franken-conversion-no-name-AR15s and put together MP40’s. The cop trade-in M16s and modern Thompsons start around $12K to $14K.

At the price of $2000 - $3000, the MACs are the best value out there.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 2:14:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By ds762:
SWD m11 .. lots of accessories available! 9mm cause its cheaper to shoot and more caliber friendly suppressors available.


Plastic mags in .380.... PS or RPB is better for that caliber.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 5:07:39 PM EST
I was in the same position last year. I had 4k budget. I purschased a M11, lage slow fire upper mags from usmachine.

I have been shooting since Dec. It is my first MG. Now I am saving for a M16.

I would not changed the way I did it. M11 great way to get started.
Link Posted: 3/9/2011 9:45:37 PM EST
not to jack the thread but where the hell do u all find these mac 11s for 2500? i cant find any but have no direction either.
Link Posted: 3/10/2011 3:35:09 AM EST
try gunbroker, subguns.com, sturmgewehr.com
Link Posted: 3/10/2011 3:55:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By kdub03:
not to jack the thread but where the hell do u all find these mac 11s for 2500? i cant find any but have no direction either.

Sub guns, Strum. But you have to be FAST and have to check it every few hours.

I got found my M-10 for $2500 on Gun broker. I did not meet the reserve, but I contracted the seller after the action. I got to know her and her story (Moved to Cali). She told me where the gun is (a lager Gun shop about 2.5 hours away from me) I called the shop, they have the Gun lockup and locked away. I owner told me about her and said she bought the gun a few years ago New from his shop, (paper trial).

He said she came back a few months ago and was moving. She locked it in a case, he locked in in his vault. I Googled the shop owner, be is ok, shop owner's son is a retard. I google the MG owner she owns a buessise in Cali. I found her facebook, a blog, her owe web site is WWW.her name.com, I found her two local addresses, her Cali address, her parents own a flower or coffee? shop local.

It was/is a risk. She had no feed back. But I think I covered my bases as best I can. Day 100
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 6:49:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By kdub03:
not to jack the thread but where the hell do u all find these mac 11s for 2500? i cant find any but have no direction either.


They come up from time to time, but they go qqqqqquuuuuuiiiiiiccccckkkkkkk. You just have to be on at the right time, and have money to send. I've seen them go off gunbroker, and no one was bidding, for whatever reason.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 2:29:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Originally Posted By Bubbles:
A friend of mine who is an 07/C2 modified his MAC10 in 9mm to accept Glock magazines. He emailed me pics - I just shook my head.

That is cool. I'd love to be able to run 33rd glock mags on it. Easy and cheap to get mags for them. I saw some guy that made a beta tower for glock style mags. That would be really cool.

Here ya go, even comes with a 100-round drum mag.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=220342314
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 3:09:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bubbles:
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Originally Posted By Bubbles:
A friend of mine who is an 07/C2 modified his MAC10 in 9mm to accept Glock magazines. He emailed me pics - I just shook my head.

That is cool. I'd love to be able to run 33rd glock mags on it. Easy and cheap to get mags for them. I saw some guy that made a beta tower for glock style mags. That would be really cool.

Here ya go, even comes with a 100-round drum mag.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=220342314


Looks like it had a OOBD from the soot in the mag well from the holes in the back of the mag,
Link Posted: 3/17/2011 8:53:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bubbles:
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Originally Posted By Bubbles:
A friend of mine who is an 07/C2 modified his MAC10 in 9mm to accept Glock magazines. He emailed me pics - I just shook my head.

That is cool. I'd love to be able to run 33rd glock mags on it. Easy and cheap to get mags for them. I saw some guy that made a beta tower for glock style mags. That would be really cool.

Here ya go, even comes with a 100-round drum mag.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=220342314


I saw that the other day. I don't need one. But pretty damn cool.
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