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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 12/6/2001 10:24:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/6/2001 10:21:23 AM EST by SkaerE]
ok, just got back from the local outdoor range (in SW Virginia) ran into some fellow that was makin a helluva lotta noise with his carbine AR. walked over expecting a 50 AE upper and NOPE! something new the 50 Beowulf! (i could be spelling this entirely wrong, hope not)Anyhow, the round looks awful strange, it looks like someone took a 50AE made it longer, and jammed a 7.62 halfway up its ass. (the bolt face is 7.62 to retain the most strength. so this guy, he's the designer and torture testing the rifle on a couple different lowers to make sure it would work, AND DAMM DID IT WORK. he let me fire a chunk of ammo through it and holy crap! it took BIG chunks out of the grass, dirt, rock, anything resemebling a target. it was one of the best things ive ever shot. soon to be at a retailer near you! the military is aparantly looking at it for short-range sniper work since the "flying sledgehammer" of a bullet is not at all deflected by shooting through glass. you can buy the upper for something like $800 or so or an entire package deal(he said suggested retail was something like $1100 sumpin or so for the upper, a new lower, one mag (its a steel promag ar15 mag, fits 7 single stack) and an aluminum case with the foam cut in the shape. well im out of breath now...wooo, its an awesome piece of machinery. i suggest everyone here get one!
Link Posted: 12/6/2001 10:58:21 AM EST
Can you say LEGP??? LOL
Link Posted: 12/6/2001 11:15:24 AM EST
At what distance is this round still deadly. I ask because I like the feel of the AR for hunting and used mine on a dear this year. I was kind of apprehensive because it is only a 223. However my dear dropped like a rock. That may not always be the case. I don't want an animal to suffer needlessly.I need it to be deadly for at least 200 yards. Thanks
Link Posted: 12/6/2001 11:28:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By SkaerE:
the military is aparantly looking at it for short-range sniper work since the "flying sledgehammer" of a bullet is not at all deflected by shooting through glass

$2

Yeah. If you believe that, I got a NIB PreBan M4 I'll sell you for $200.

No, really.
Link Posted: 12/6/2001 3:42:34 PM EST
well damn, ill take it
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 3:30:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By shooterX308:

Originally Posted By SkaerE:
the military is aparantly looking at it for short-range sniper work since the "flying sledgehammer" of a bullet is not at all deflected by shooting through glass

$2

Yeah. If you believe that, I got a NIB PreBan M4 I'll sell you for $200.

No, really.



Well its better than shooting at bad guys with an overgrown .22!
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 3:32:45 PM EST
anybody got a pic of this round?
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 3:39:31 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 3:41:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 3:44:38 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 3:54:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:
They were selling these (and demoing them!) at the BRC. You can hear the bullet sizzle all the way to the target. And they have some SERIOUS recoil (and I shot 9 different 50BMGs that weekend!).

It is basically a lengthened 50AE case but with a rebated rim so that it works with a standard boltface (and I believe it is rebated to .223 head dimensions, but I may be mistaken there).

It definitely packs a BIG punch, and would likely be good out to 200m on a deer...

-Troy



I think the head is rebated to 7.63
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 4:24:03 PM EST
I posted about a week ago I see some one put the site up. By the way the DOD is thinking about it for sniper action.

After reading about it from BlackWater Training and asking about it here I checked into it. The problem is the site doesn't list a price for it. Says something about GMP and FFL BullCrap..Why even talk about it if individual sales aren't accepted. That's what I was pissed about. Let them send a letter out to the all mighty Dealers.

Back to what I was saying before getting on the soap box. Yes there are certain Military and Law enforcement divisions that are thinking about it. I understand it has a very nice range and potential kill ability. Stable and I didn't know they had it at the BRC. I would love to have tried it out.

Link Posted: 7/25/2002 4:33:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/25/2002 4:33:31 PM EST by GI_Brat]
I shot one at the BRC, it has a real kick to it. The lead engineer was letting people shoot it on the .50 range. The Butt Stock seemed shorter than the ones I am used to, a little difficult to shoot from the prone position, but a real blast!
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 5:17:43 PM EST
GIBrat..Who was this guy and was he the designer from Alexander arms? Between you and me we should do what we talked about...I am saving for that baby we talked about couple of weeks ago.
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 5:43:46 PM EST
I thought Alexander Arms was located on a restricted Army facility, and would surely have their own test reange.

Personally, I'm leaning more toward the .458 SOCOM. I think the ballistics are similar, and there are commercial sources for the ammo. But not decided yet. Can anyone find out a street price on these puppies?
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 5:51:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By edpmedic:
GIBrat..Who was this guy and was he the designer from Alexander arms? Between you and me we should do what we talked about...I am saving for that baby we talked about couple of weeks ago.



Yes he works for Alexander Arms.

I agree that we should stick with our game plan. If I ever get a day off from work and I can go by my FFL, that baby will be on order...only 30-90 days later it will be coming home with me.
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 5:55:43 PM EST
I've never heard of the SOCOM 458 . Could that be the same thing as the 45 Professional from LeMag Firearms ? I'm interested in a large caliber AR upper myself . I saw this 50 cal thing in the BLUE PRESS from Dillion Reloading . The article said it was kind of like a 45-70 short ! Well, if anyone has any info on these large hole AR's please post it here .
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 6:01:18 PM EST
Up for your bidding pleasure:

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1845270836&rd=1

458 SOCOM upper
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 6:05:52 PM EST
As a hobby reloader, the balistic on the 50 Beowolf (sp?) seem like a mildly hot-rodded 45-70, or in that general class. This round in the AR15 type chassis would be a hell of a gun for bear country, or for heavy timber (short to moderate range) deer or Elk hunting. This is just my take. As far as a sniping round, I can't see where it would have any application over the 308, EXCEPT for close range fast put down jobs. I would not call that sniping. But it would be a hell of a home defense rig! And I for one would have a grand time plinking with one of these!

Getting excited!
BillSP1
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 7:24:22 PM EST
More info on .458 SOCOM:

www.teppojutsu.com/prod01.htm
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 7:55:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 8:41:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By BillSP1:
As a hobby reloader, the balistic on the 50 Beowolf (sp?) seem like a mildly hot-rodded 45-70, or in that general class. This round in the AR15 type chassis would be a hell of a gun for bear country, or for heavy timber (short to moderate range) deer or Elk hunting. This is just my take. As far as a sniping round, I can't see where it would have any application over the 308, EXCEPT for close range fast put down jobs. I would not call that sniping. But it would be a hell of a home defense rig! And I for one would have a grand time plinking with one of these!

Getting excited!
BillSP1



Im a handloader too and I love the look of the ballistics of the .50 Beowulf. I read an article where this guy reports 1 MOA accuracy which is not shabby and better than my Bushmaster carbine ever did. The straight wall cartridges lend themselves to easy reloading and low pressure which translates to durability for gun and brass.

I personally think that this is more of a mini anti-materials weapon and remember they have more covert bullet types for this rifle that are not available to the general public.

I cant see an advantage to going with the 458 Socom ballistically and the price of the Beowulf is much lower and the components are cheaper too. Cant wait to get mine!
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 9:13:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By MickeyMouse:
A real heavy bullet in one of these would make an interesting suppressed project! Even at subsonic velocity the thing would have impressive energy.



Interesting that you should mention that. John Linebaugh, who is arguably the king of big bore did some testing with heavy bullets going slow. He tested a 375 H&H rifle against his .500 Linebaugh pistol. The H&H was using a 300 gr. going mid 2500 velocity against a subsonic 500 gr. .510 diameter lead bullet from the .500. The H&H penetrated 40 inches of wet phonebooks and the .500 went 41 inches!


There has been talk about using the different weight bullets in the large bore AR15 type weapons. The one thing that the gas powered guns cant do is use a wide range of bullet weights effectively. There is a relatively narrow window of pressure that will operate the gun reliably and safely. Bolt guns and single shots dont have that problem and are usually better platforms for a wide range of bullet types and weights. I can only use two weights of bullets in my M1A and only two powders safely. But oh what it does with just those two!
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 9:44:41 PM EST
What is ammo for this thing going to cost?? Or will you have to load your own?
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 2:38:41 AM EST
I'm not picking the 458 socom over the 50 beowolf, but don't tapered cartridges lend themselves to more reliable feeding (as opposed to straight walled cartridges)? i like both, and as i see it the only other advantage that the 458 has is the wide availability of relatively inexpensive bullets.

...but there is something about a bullet that's half inch across. sloth
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 8:18:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By sloth:
I'm not picking the 458 socom over the 50 beowolf, but don't tapered cartridges lend themselves to more reliable feeding (as opposed to straight walled cartridges)? i like both, and as i see it the only other advantage that the 458 has is the wide availability of relatively inexpensive bullets.

...but there is something about a bullet that's half inch across. sloth



I dont think that reliability is going to be an issue. I mean all of the most successful auto rounds today are straight walled, as far as pistol goes anyway, plust you really dont see very many high powered auto rifles due to the limitations that the auto system puts on the ammo choice with regards to pressure and accuracy.

Looking at .458 vs .50 AE jacketed rouns, they are basically the same price where I shop. Having more choice is kind of a moot point. A lot of these bullets are not suited for the delayed gas system of the AR. If the .458 Socom were cheaper I would have gone that direction, I dont think there is a big advantage with either.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 8:21:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By MAHABALI:
What is ammo for this thing going to cost?? Or will you have to load your own?



Reloading is so cheap and easy I dont see why most people that shoot more than casually dont do it! The cost of shooting is a fraction of commercial and my handloads are more consistant and accurate than commercial stuff.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 8:36:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2002 8:43:17 AM EST by AR15forfun]
AKADave:

I must not be thinking very clearly this afternoon, (just ate a huge lunch) but I can't think of one reason why bullet choice would be limited by a delayed gas system?

Maybe I misunderstood what you are saying. I would think the velocity window over a given acceptable range and the expansion characteristics would limit your choice more. ie. You would not want to shoot a thin jacketed highly frangible round at an excessive velocity at big game as it would fragment too soon to be effective. Conversly, you would not want to use a solid on small thin skinned game or varmints at a low velocity as they would just poke nice holes in the animal.

I read an example of this about when the .444 Marlin came out folks were loading .44 MAgnum bullets into and getting dissapointing results. They were breaking apart to soon on large game.

Of course if you are punching paper all this does not matter, but at these weights if you are just poking paper you might want to consider a lighter bullet for recoil reasons.

My .50 AE is only fun to shoot for about 40 rounds, then it just hurts.


Edited because I caint spel.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 8:47:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By MAHABALI:
What is ammo for this thing going to cost?? Or will you have to load your own?



I checked this out and found one commercial source that quoted a price of "about a dollar a round"
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 8:49:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 8:54:15 AM EST
As for the feeding concern they did change the ramp angle of the barrel extension to make cycling more reliable.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 9:02:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15forfun:
AKADave:

I must not be thinking very clearly this afternoon, (just ate a huge lunch) but I can't think of one reason why bullet choice would be limited by a delayed gas system?

Maybe I misunderstood what you are saying. I would think the velocity window over a given acceptable range and the expansion characteristics would limit your choice more. ie. You would not want to shoot a thin jacketed highly frangible round at an excessive velocity at big game as it would fragment too soon to be effective. Conversly, you would not want to use a solid on small thin skinned game or varmints at a low velocity as they would just poke nice holes in the animal.

I read an example of this about when the .444 Marlin came out folks were loading .44 MAgnum bullets into and getting dissapointing results. They were breaking apart to soon on large game.

Of course if you are punching paper all this does not matter, but at these weights if you are just poking paper you might want to consider a lighter bullet for recoil reasons.

My .50 AE is only fun to shoot for about 40 rounds, then it just hurts. hotgun.gif


Edited because I caint spel.



I was told by a gunsmith that you are limited in bullet choice weight etc with regards to the M1 and M1A specifically and gas guns in general but the AR was not specifically mentioned. Something about pressure curve with powder and bullet weight being a factor which could damage the Op Rod and erode the gas port in the barrel of the M1 and M1A. I really dont know what it would do to the AR in extreme situations.

So the .50 AE kicks a bit much for you? I guess you wouldnt want to shoot my .500 Linebaugh or 454? I get about 1700fps from 315 gr. bullets from a 4 3/4 inch barreled Freedom Arms 454 pistol and 1200 fps or so with 475 gr. bullets out of my 5.5 inch Linebaugh pistol. Thats recoil.

I only really shoot guns that I can use in the bush up here in AK where I live. I have .45 Colt pistols that are gentle and I love my Kimber ACP too for just fun shooting. I like the big bores though. I would love to get one of those 300 WSM ARs that are coming out too.

There is a whole new world of ballistic data on big slow bullets. Its starting to look like speed is not all that critical on terminal performance.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 5:46:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By ILove2Shoot:

I look forward to the arrival of my beowolf, it will sit nicely next to my tromix 50ae.




Can you tell me from whom you're getting the Beowulf? Or are you a dealer and getting it from Alexander Arms. Based on what I read on their web site, they're not interested in selling even uppers and ammo to scum like me.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:10:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By AKADave:

I was told by a gunsmith that you are limited in bullet choice weight etc with regards to the M1 and M1A specifically and gas guns in general but the AR was not specifically mentioned. Something about pressure curve with powder and bullet weight being a factor which could damage the Op Rod and erode the gas port in the barrel of the M1 and M1A. I really dont know what it would do to the AR in extreme situations.

So the .50 AE kicks a bit much for you? I guess you wouldn't want to shoot my .500 Linebaugh or 454? I get about 1700fps from 315 gr. bullets from a 4 3/4 inch barreled Freedom Arms 454 pistol and 1200 fps or so with 475 gr. bullets out of my 5.5 inch Linebaugh pistol. That's recoil.



The .50 is fine in a hunting enviroment, as I posted before I have taken 2 deer with it. Dropped them both like I had speared them to the earth they stood on. The recoil only becomes an issue at the end of the second box at the range.

I have never heard of the M14/M1A problem with different bullet weights. I have shot my M1A for years with various bullet weights and have not seen a problem with erosion of anything.

Like you I only shoot cartridges that are useful in my area. We are kinda short on cape buffalo and polar bears down here in Ky. So I just stick with the small stuff.

I want a .458 in a big way!

Link Posted: 7/26/2002 6:59:46 PM EST
I too fell in love with the .50 Beowulf at the BRC. Both me and my good friend bought uppers. Now I'm trying to sell some of my toys to get into class III stuff. So I think I might be selling my upper to free up some cash even though I haven't even had a chance to shoot mine yet. I just don't see any time in the future to really get to use it, so I figured I would offer it to you guys first before it goes on the auctioning block if I even decide to sell it for sure. I just thought since there's a lot of interest in these right now and nobody can get them and I have one that I would offer it. It's brand new, unfired, 16" flat-top with free float tube. It came with one magazine and I bought an extra one. I also bought five boxes of 20 rounds each, 325 grain hollow point factory ammo and one new set of Lee reloading dies. I think I would probably sell the whole package for $850. If any of you guys are interested, please let me know. Thanks,
Shawn
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 8:25:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By marvl:

Originally Posted By ILove2Shoot:

I look forward to the arrival of my beowolf, it will sit nicely next to my tromix 50ae.




Can you tell me from whom you're getting the Beowulf? Or are you a dealer and getting it from Alexander Arms. Based on what I read on their web site, they're not interested in selling even uppers and ammo to scum like me. hr


I think that Fagen is a dealer but I couldnt find an upper so I had my FFL dealer order direct and I pay for the transfer. Its that easy and Im sure you could do the same in your area. The lower Im getting is from Legal Transfers, one of those Rock River complete lowers that Pete is selling.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 9:18:41 PM EST
Is the CAR stock to weak to handle the .50 Beowulf?
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 3:48:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 4:03:41 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 6:59:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By ILove2Shoot:
I hate ring eye.



Well, it's not as bad as ring worm.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 9:24:17 AM EST
I called Fagan's Sporting Firearms this morning to purchase a .50 Beowulf upper and I was told to get on the waiting list. They estimated about 2-4 weeks.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 9:44:59 AM EST
I have a .458SOCOM and it is a blast to shoot. I can get ~2100fps with a 300gr Barnes X using Win296. It is not that hard on the brass I have been getting 9-10 reloads out of my brass before tossing them. The recoil is not too bad and I would highly recommend one!! It will shoot 1 moa no problem. And if you sight it in 3" high at 100yds you will be 4" low at 200yrds. It will drop game like a bag of hammers too!!

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