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Posted: 7/25/2006 3:08:57 PM EST
Any advice? Mostly I just wanted to share my joy with ya'll.

I've been singing that dumb tune over and over in my head (and out loud, too) all day..."I'm going to buy an SBR...an SBR...an SBR"

Had been thinking about it for a few months and went into a local gun store today to look at the new smaller framed Ruger Blackhawks. The Blackhawk was very cool, and I was about to order one when I saw an SBR sitting behind the counter. It was a full auto Colt flattop with a 6 position stock, 10.5" bbl. That did the trick.

Decided on a RRA NM lower, Bushmaster or RRA 10.5" upper, whatever brand 6 pos. stock.

Local CLEO signoff is no problem, he is a very nice guy and has signed all forms so far for this dealer.

Any and all advice will be appreciated, this will be my first NFA firearm.
Link Posted: 7/25/2006 10:15:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/26/2006 3:57:03 AM EST
I was thinking the same thing. You can MAKE your own SBR. All you have to do is file a Form 1 (actaully in duplicate) to "Make and Register" a SBR.

You SBR a lower, than all you need to do is purchase a short barreled upper
Link Posted: 7/27/2006 10:14:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Unless you want to have a factory Short Barreled Rifle, they you can register a rifle you already have on ATF form 1 then once approved put a short barrel on it.


Quick question....

If I use an exisisting AR lower, it still needs to be engraved with the SBR info...right?

Also, I am torn between an M4 and a 11.5" "Shorty". Can I switch uppers from 1 to another with no "Frownies" from the ATF? (Is the upper dedicated?)

AND...If I can switch uppers, is it an issue to have several AR's and only 1 SBR with 2 SBR uppers in the same house? (did you follow that?)

Thanks
"G"
Link Posted: 7/27/2006 5:01:51 PM EST
yes you will have to mark lower with your name, city, and state

yes you can have more then one short barrel upper for you SBR

yes you can own several short barrel uppers while owning other ARs. that are not SBRs

Someone not to long ago posted a ATF letter stating that you may have several short barrel uppers while having other ARs. Anyone have a copy of that letter?
Link Posted: 7/27/2006 5:46:51 PM EST
Oh sweet heaven above.....It might be too good to be true. Who has the Damn letter!!!!!
"G"
Link Posted: 7/27/2006 5:54:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2006 5:57:46 PM EST by cajunboy]
Go for it! RRA's Pistol uppers would work well for you. I am going to SBR my RRA 9mm as soon as my .22 suppressor is ready. Let the tax stamp collection begin!

There is a guy in NW Arkansas who does laser engraving- I cannot remember his name but I have his card upstairs. I met him at the Arkansas State IDPA match. Might be cheaper / more convenient than sending it off.
Link Posted: 7/28/2006 6:15:54 AM EST
This work?



Link Posted: 7/28/2006 7:07:51 AM EST
My understanding is that a letter from ATF doesn't mean squat unless it is addressed to you.
Link Posted: 7/28/2006 8:39:57 AM EST
Perfect. I will send them a letter and keep it on hand. GREAT INFO! Thanks a bunch.
"G"
Link Posted: 7/28/2006 4:23:42 PM EST
Is it correct to assume, from the previous posts, that if I buy a new rifle (that comes directly from the manufacturer to the jobber to my dealer to me) I can just register it using the serial # on the receiver without having to engrave it?

That is, if it is never sold as a non NFA receiver do I still have to engrave it?

And, if I register it initially as a NFA SBR is it legal to install a standard length (>=16")
upper on it later on or must it be used exclusively as a lower for SBR uppers?
Link Posted: 7/28/2006 4:39:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/28/2006 6:29:39 PM EST
A jobber is the same as a distributor. Maybe an Arkie term...
Link Posted: 8/1/2006 8:41:48 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/1/2006 12:53:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By cowboy7242001:

Originally Posted By Arkansas_Rocketman:
Is it correct to assume, from the previous posts, that if I buy a new rifle (that comes directly from the manufacturer to the jobber to my dealer to me) I can just register it using the serial # on the receiver without having to engrave it?

That is, if it is never sold as a non NFA receiver do I still have to engrave it?

And, if I register it initially as a NFA SBR is it legal to install a standard length (>=16")
upper on it later on or must it be used exclusively as a lower for SBR uppers?


Use the serial number from the factory.

Engrave your name and City, State.

You can have any barrel you want on it, from 5.5" to 87"


Thank you, that answers my question. Nice to hear from someone capable of staying on topic!
Link Posted: 8/4/2006 10:36:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/4/2006 10:47:29 AM EST by Arkansas_Rocketman]
Receiver and upper are ordered. RRA NM lower w/ 6 pos. stock, RRA 10.5" A3 complete upper.

Both from Pete at Legal Transfers. His prices were great and he is a nice guy to deal with.
Lower was in stock, upper will be drop shipped from RRA to me.

Stimpy would surely say "Happy happy, joy joy, happy happy, joy joy...."

BTW, got the Ruger Blackhawk too. 4.5" bbl, blued and casehardened 50th anniversary model. It was just too sweet to resist, that new original grip frame is lots smaller and fits my hand like a glove.
Link Posted: 8/4/2006 3:47:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By Arkansas_Rocketman:
Receiver and upper are ordered. RRA NM lower w/ 6 pos. stock, RRA 10.5" A3 complete upper.

Both from Pete at Legal Transfers. His prices were great and he is a nice guy to deal with.
Lower was in stock, upper will be drop shipped from RRA to me.




Sounds sweet. I got my RRA 9mm from Pete. He is a good guy to deal with. Are you starting with .223?
Link Posted: 8/4/2006 5:18:43 PM EST



Sounds sweet. I got my RRA 9mm from Pete. He is a good guy to deal with. Are you starting with .223?


Yep, although thought I'd put "9mm, .223" on the form, though so if I ever wanted to convert to 9mm I could.

This brings up another question. Does putting "9mm, .223" and 7" to 16" on the form increase the chance that it will be returned for clarification? I'd like to have that flexibility but not if it is going to decrease the chance that my application will be approved.
Link Posted: 8/7/2006 10:35:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By Arkansas_Rocketman:



Sounds sweet. I got my RRA 9mm from Pete. He is a good guy to deal with. Are you starting with .223?


Yep, although thought I'd put "9mm, .223" on the form, though so if I ever wanted to convert to 9mm I could.

This brings up another question. Does putting "9mm, .223" and 7" to 16" on the form increase the chance that it will be returned for clarification? I'd like to have that flexibility but not if it is going to decrease the chance that my application will be approved.


depends.

not on anything in particular, it just depends...

i built two SBR's last year that were the EXACT same. i filled out the forms EXACTLY the same. i had the EXACT same examiner. the only difference was that the forms were sent about three months apart.

one sailed right through, the other got kickde back because my overall length was listed as <27", and they wanted a SPECIFIC measurement...


Link Posted: 8/7/2006 3:00:39 PM EST
I am no expert, but based on lurking here for the past six months or so, it seems that multiple calibers seem to be going through okay. Not putting a specific barrel length or overall length seems to be a reason for Form 1s getting kicked back.

My first Form 1 for an SBR went pending last week. I put one caliber, one barrel length and one overall length on the Form itself, but included an additional sheet of paper which noted that additional calibers, barrel lengths and overall lengths might also be used on occasion, and then basically listed every caliber, barrel length and corresponding overall length I could think of.

The way things seem to be going with approval timelines, I should know within a week or so if my Form gets approved or if they are going to kick it back because of the additional sheet of paper. I will try to remember to update with what happens.

Also, it is not clear from your posts, but it appears that you may have ordered a short barreled upper and an unregistered lower at the same time. If you have an unregistered lower and an upper with a barrel less than 16" in your possession and/or "control" before the ATF has approved your Form 1, you are committing a felony, and could end up doing 10 years federal time and being fined $250,000 (I think that is the maximum fine).

Again, I am not an expert, and I am not sure if you are ordering a lower receiver that has already been "made" into an SBR by the manufacturer (i.e. the manufacturer submitted the required Forms and paid the required tax to make a short barreled rifle as opposed to just a standard lower receiver).

Assuming the receiver you have purchased is not a factory SBR receiver, some here have said that it is okay to leave the upper (or lower if you do not own any other AR-15 lowers) with a friend or family member who does not own an AR-15 lower receiver, and instruct them not to allow you access to it until your Form 1 has been approved. This seems a little dicey to me, but others here have done it. I suppose you could also have your dealer keep the lower until the Form 1 has been approved, as long as you do not own any other AR-15 lower receivers, and this may be what you are planning to do.

The truth is that the chances of you running into any problems is pretty slim, even if you have both the unregistered lower and short barreled upper together before your Form 1 is approved, and a lot of people here will tell you I am making a big fuss over nothing. What you need to ask yourself is whether you want to to take the risk.

Again, I am not an expert, and I am not exactly sure what your situation is. It could be that none of the above is applicable, but I figured it would be better to let you know while you could still do something about it, if necessary.
Link Posted: 8/8/2006 4:59:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By Jinete_Palido:

Also, it is not clear from your posts, but it appears that you may have ordered a short barreled upper and an unregistered lower at the same time. If you have an unregistered lower and an upper with a barrel less than 16" in your possession and/or "control" before the ATF has approved your Form 1, you are committing a felony, and could end up doing 10 years federal time and being fined $250,000 (I think that is the maximum fine).

Again, I am not an expert, and I am not sure if you are ordering a lower receiver that has already been "made" into an SBR by the manufacturer (i.e. the manufacturer submitted the required Forms and paid the required tax to make a short barreled rifle as opposed to just a standard lower receiver).

Assuming the receiver you have purchased is not a factory SBR receiver, some here have said that it is okay to leave the upper (or lower if you do not own any other AR-15 lowers) with a friend or family member who does not own an AR-15 lower receiver, and instruct them not to allow you access to it until your Form 1 has been approved. This seems a little dicey to me, but others here have done it. I suppose you could also have your dealer keep the lower until the Form 1 has been approved, as long as you do not own any other AR-15 lower receivers, and this may be what you are planning to do.

The truth is that the chances of you running into any problems is pretty slim, even if you have both the unregistered lower and short barreled upper together before your Form 1 is approved, and a lot of people here will tell you I am making a big fuss over nothing. What you need to ask yourself is whether you want to to take the risk.

Again, I am not an expert, and I am not exactly sure what your situation is. It could be that none of the above is applicable, but I figured it would be better to let you know while you could still do something about it, if necessary.


Jinete: Thanks very much for your advice. I ordered the lower and upper on different days, and the lower is going to a local class 3 gunshop while the upper is going to a friends house. The lower has not been registered yet, but will be registered by my local class 3 dealer. He is going to perform the transfer of the lower to me after the form is approved.

I thought it might be best for the upper to go to a residence where they do not own any AR type rifles. I do own another AR in a standard (non-SBR) configuration and did not want to simultaneously possess a SBR upper and my other AR rifle.

May be paranoid, but this is the first time I've owned an NFA weapon and just want to be sure to do everything legally.
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 1:01:11 PM EST
Looks like you've got it sorted out. Good luck with your SBR.
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 1:06:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/9/2006 1:07:28 PM EST by ORinTX]
FWIW, I just received approval for a multi caliber SBR. I listed "9mm 5.56mm" on mine.

I highly recommend the Colt 11.5 and LMT 10.5 uppers. I've shot both plenty and I own two of the LMTs.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 7:06:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2006 7:16:08 PM EST by Arkansas_Rocketman]
Everything's done. Received the stamped Form 1, went and got my upper where I had it stashed, put it together and put an Eotech 512 on it. Here is a picture:

This was fun and cheaper than I thought it would be. Kudos to the BATFE, they were friendly and helpful throughout the whole process.

BTW, the form had "9mm .223" in box 4 c. and <26" in box 4 f.
Time from entry into BATFE computer system until approval 7 days.
Adam Sandler might say "not too shabby".
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