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Posted: 6/11/2009 1:20:55 PM EST
Has anyone ever shot a deer (and not in the head, BROADSIDE) with an AR in .223. If so what bullet did you use
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 1:25:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By doubleshot00:
Has anyone ever shot a deer (and not in the head, BROADSIDE) with an AR in .223. If so what bullet did you use


SP 62gr. DRT
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 1:58:12 PM EST
63gr sierra. dead. period.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 2:00:19 PM EST
Use winchester 64gr power point bullet.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 2:42:09 PM EST
Sierra 65 Grain Game King, 25.2 Grains of Varget, Very Nice...
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:50:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By GlockFace:
Use winchester 64gr power point bullet.


What he said. 60 yards from a stand, the deer went 18 yards and the bullet was found under the skin after passing through the opposing shoulder flattened like a lead penny:-)

Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:35:19 PM EST
60 gr Nosler Partition 24" bbl, through the heart/lungs and out the other side at 90 yards. Down without a flinch after a 10-15 yard stumble. That's the only deer I've ever shot with .223 and I've had them run much farther than that with 7mm Mag and .30-06.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 7:24:01 PM EST
Shot several, used hand-loaded Speer 70gr Semi-Spitzers. Very deadly.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 7:39:23 PM EST
60 grain nosler partition, I think it was a Federal load. Ran less than 100 yards, shot at about 125 yards.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 7:58:14 PM EST
75 Swift Scirocco II. 20" 1:6.5" Pac Nor. Moly coated, 25 grains Varget, 2900 FPS. I had plenty of practice with the rifle and knew where the first shot out of a cold barrel would hit. About 220 yards, broadside. Bullet entered just forward of the leg, taking out the top of the heart with a 1.5" hole. Bullet then smashed through the opposite shoulder and the bullet is gone. Jagged exit hole about 1x2". Deer took a fumbling step, then dropped.

Accuracy is impressive. Performance is identical to premium bullets in a .243 Win.

Link Posted: 6/12/2009 5:32:01 AM EST
Countdown until the inevitable "In spite of the growing mounds of empirical evidence to the contrary, .223 is not an adequate cartridge for whitetail deer" post(s):

10...9...8...7...
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 5:49:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By DanParker:
Countdown until the inevitable "In spite of the growing mounds of empirical evidence to the contrary, .223 is not an adequate cartridge for whitetail deer" post(s):

10...9...8...7...


True.

I believe that is the case for some people though with less than par marksman abilities. These people probably shouldn't be hunting anyway though. As we all know, most of the time it matters where you put the bullet, not how big it is. The only thing a bigger bullet does, in most cases, is determine how much you can miss by.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 7:13:40 AM EST
has anyone used the Barnes TSX 70grn in the .223 for deer?
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 11:18:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By GlockFace:
Use winchester 64gr power point bullet.


This +1

I've killed several deer and my son killed a hog with them and they are great hunting rounds.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 11:24:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By Birkleberry:
Originally Posted By DanParker:
Countdown until the inevitable "In spite of the growing mounds of empirical evidence to the contrary, .223 is not an adequate cartridge for whitetail deer" post(s):

10...9...8...7...


True.

I believe that is the case for some people though with less than par marksman abilities. These people probably shouldn't be hunting anyway though. As we all know, most of the time it matters where you put the bullet, not how big it is. The only thing a bigger bullet does, in most cases, is determine how much you can miss by.


Thats what she said!
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 11:59:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By En4cr:
has anyone used the Barnes TSX 70grn in the .223 for deer?


I have used the 53 grain in one of my .220 Swifts.....It never blinked...it just fell.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:35:44 AM EST
I haven't seen a deer killed with a .17 Remington. Shoulder shot didn't drop it in place. It wasn't a test to see if it could be done. Never happened.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 5:23:30 AM EST

ok I'll be the shit stirrer. With so many better, more ethical choices out there, I have to ask why?
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 6:34:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By Zoomer302:

ok I'll be the shit stirrer. With so many better, more ethical choices out there, I have to ask why?


Well, this is why. For one thing south Texas white tails usually arent that big. Here is a hunting trip story.............
Season before last my wife and I were sitting in a blind at 75yrds from the feeder. I took a spike with my 450 marlin. We sat for a few minutes and a group of doe's came out of the trees about the same distance, maybe right at 100yrds. My wife's gun of choice is in .223. It was loaded with Rem. 55gr. sp. she put one shot right behind the shoulder. It jumped and ran about 30ft then fell dead. Now, when I opened these critters up for cleaning I was quite surprised! The .450 marlin of course made a big hole in and out right through the heart. The .223 however simply turned the heart and lungs into liquid! I mean as if the organs had been put in a blender at high speed!!
That was the first kill of any kind I had made with .223. Up to that point I'd always prefered larger calibers. But that made a believer out of me! I haven't used my .450 marlin for deer since, it gets used for ferrel hog only now!
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 6:48:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By DanParker:
Countdown until the inevitable "In spite of the growing mounds of empirical evidence to the contrary, .223 is not an adequate cartridge for whitetail deer" post(s):

10...9...8...7...


Yep I concur.
You can kill a deer with a 2X4 if you hit it in the head.........I still would,nt want to!

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 6:53:54 AM EST
have used 223 on deer for many years in NH. a 55gr hornady soft point over 25.5gr ww748, have never had on leave the garden.
nothing magic about the load, it just works every time. always amazed me how far from the ass that shit can fly when hit broad side with that load.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 7:31:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 7:33:14 AM EST by drmgallen]
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
75 Swift Scirocco II. 20" 1:6.5" Pac Nor. Moly coated, 25 grains Varget, 2900 FPS. I had plenty of practice with the rifle and knew where the first shot out of a cold barrel would hit. About 220 yards, broadside. Bullet entered just forward of the leg, taking out the top of the heart with a 1.5" hole. Bullet then smashed through the opposite shoulder and the bullet is gone. Jagged exit hole about 1x2". Deer took a fumbling step, then dropped.

Accuracy is impressive. Performance is identical to premium bullets in a .243 Win.




Impressive speed...were you using lapua brass?

AR or bolt?


Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:58:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 9:58:38 AM EST by MoneyMaker]
I t is what i will have to hunt with this year as i can get another rifle right now,so i will work on loads with 65grn sierra gameking,64 pp win,60 grn partition and may try some tsx 70grn and see which load is the most accurate under many different conditions,then will test by shooting various things from leather wrapped grapefruit thru watermelons with leather wrap and old phone books from 50 yards thru 275 yards to see what is what on these little pills,will be doing this thru the month of july,just gotta find all the bullets to test 1st.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 10:06:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 10:06:25 AM EST by liaisons]
64gr PP or 70gr TSX.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:10:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 7:25:31 AM EST by DanParker]
Originally Posted By Zoomer302:

ok I'll be the shit stirrer. With so many better, more ethical choices out there, I have to ask why?


What do you mean by "more ethical"? There's nothing inherently ethical/unethical about a choice of cartridge without taking shot selection into consideration. Is shooting a deer in the ass with a 7mm Mag, or blowing it's jaw off with a .30-06 more ethical than using a .223 but only taking high-percentage kill-zone shots at reasonable distances? If you're aware of the performance characteristics of your load and you choose your shots accordingly, where is the lack of ethics? Isn't that true with ANY cartridge?
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:11:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By drmgallen:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
75 Swift Scirocco II. 20" 1:6.5" Pac Nor. Moly coated, 25 grains Varget, 2900 FPS. I had plenty of practice with the rifle and knew where the first shot out of a cold barrel would hit. About 220 yards, broadside. Bullet entered just forward of the leg, taking out the top of the heart with a 1.5" hole. Bullet then smashed through the opposite shoulder and the bullet is gone. Jagged exit hole about 1x2". Deer took a fumbling step, then dropped.

Accuracy is impressive. Performance is identical to premium bullets in a .243 Win.




Impressive speed...were you using lapua brass?

AR or bolt?



Hornady Frontier. These are Captain Crunch loads, HEAVILY compressed. An older lot of Varget (1999) and BR4 primers. About 3/4 MOA to 300 yards without wind. Still moving at 2300 FPS at 300 yards, making it a viable deer getter to that range.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 1:12:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By PDshooter:
Yep I concur.
You can kill a deer with a 2X4 if you hit it in the head.........I still would,nt want to!



Can you reliably hit a deer in the lungs with a 2x4 with killing force from 100+ yards away? If not, I fail to see the value of your analogy.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:20:41 PM EST
If it's legal and you don't end up wounding deer needlessly, why not use the 223? I never have used it...yet. I normally take my M1a out to the woods and most likely will use my 6.8 this year, unless i don't get it by november. I may hesitate but I hunt the extreame upper part of WI and the deer can be rather large, like 160+ lbs.

If I hunted in texas or some of the southern states, I think I would be hunting almost exclusivly with the 223

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:10:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 7:11:34 PM EST by JET74]
Originally Posted By Zoomer302:

ok I'll be the shit stirrer. With so many better, more ethical choices out there, I have to ask why?


These threads always go this route. I hate it when the ethics police come in.
eth⋅i⋅cal
  [eth-i-kuhl] –adjective
1. pertaining to or dealing with morals or the principles of morality; pertaining to right and wrong in conduct.
2. being in accordance with the rules or standards for right conduct or practice

Explain to me where this describes shooting a deer with a .223
If the OP or any other hunter is competent with their chosen firearm and it is a legal caliber, there is no question of ethical compromise.
Game Over



Link Posted: 6/15/2009 8:40:51 PM EST
Back in the 1920s, Charles Newton came up with a .22 centerfire called the Hi Power. It was designed around the Savage M99 lever action and used a .227" bullet diameter with a 70 grain bullet doing about 2800 FPS. It was advertised as being great for large game but the poor design of these small bullets back then made it less than adequate for dangerous game, causing it to have a jaded reputation.

Wildcat chamberings had the same problems so this caliber was then relegated to varmit hunting so bullets were constructed with thin jackets for explosive expansion. This made all .22s less than adequate except for carefully placed shots. A neck shot, on the spine or close enough even with a factory .222 Remington and its trademark 50 grain bullet is PLENTY for a deer. But the guy shooting 20 rounds a year, seeing a deer 3 times a year probably cannot do that, even at 50 yards.

If even an 80 pound Texas Hill Country spike buck is hit in the shoulder ball joint with such a load, it is most likely to travel miles on 3 legs, only to be found by carrion-eating varmits.

But IF the bullet is constructed like big-game bullets and is of suffcient sectional density, the performance is much better. Instead of breaking apart in the first 4" of travel or on contact with heavy bone, it holds together and penetrates deeply. Here is where the frag queens shake their heads and leave, thinking fragmentation is the end all to performance. But in the hunting side of bullet performance, penetration and expansion trump fragmentation any day.

Heavier bullets with greatly tapered jackets turn the .223 Rem into a respectable deer harvesting rifle. Like I have stated, there is no visible difference between the .223 Rem shooting the 75 grain Swift bullets and a .243 Win with 100 grain factory loads.

Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:01:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 5:03:17 AM EST by DanParker]
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
But IF the bullet is constructed like big-game bullets and is of suffcient sectional density, the performance is much better. Instead of breaking apart in the first 4" of travel or on contact with heavy bone, it holds together and penetrates deeply. Here is where the frag queens shake their heads and leave, thinking fragmentation is the end all to performance. But in the hunting side of bullet performance, penetration and expansion trump fragmentation any day.

Heavier bullets with greatly tapered jackets turn the .223 Rem into a respectable deer harvesting rifle. Like I have stated, there is no visible difference between the .223 Rem shooting the 75 grain Swift bullets and a .243 Win with 100 grain factory loads.


Bingo. I think far too many people view bullet diameter as somehow being the determining factor in the equation, while ignoring everything else. Loads historically produced for caliber 'x' were not designed for game 'y', so it is assumed that caliber 'x' is inherently inadequate for the job of quickly and humanely dispatching game animal 'y'. I think this is the same reasoning that leads some people to cling to the belief that 9mm is an inadequate PD round based on historical performance, with no understand of its evolution and the advances made in modern ammunition.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:33:15 AM EST
I've talked to some guys that say the 64gr Winchester PowerPoints will DRT them sometimes, especially does.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:57:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 12:40:37 PM EST by JamesP81]
Originally Posted By Birkleberry:
Originally Posted By DanParker:
Countdown until the inevitable "In spite of the growing mounds of empirical evidence to the contrary, .223 is not an adequate cartridge for whitetail deer" post(s):

10...9...8...7...


True.

I believe that is the case for some people though with less than par marksman abilities. These people probably shouldn't be hunting anyway though. As we all know, most of the time it matters where you put the bullet, not how big it is. The only thing a bigger bullet does, in most cases, is determine how much you can miss by.


+1. Shot placement is everything. 223 will make terrorists and Talibans DRT. It'll make deer DRT too if you know what you're doing.

I think a lot of 223's bad rap for stopping power comes from the fact that the .mil has to use FMJ rounds. However, since whitetail deer are not signatories to the Geneva convention, we can use bullets with far superior terminal performance.

Edit for typo
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:52:41 AM EST
Sierra 65 gr gameking 110lb doe at 95 yards with lung shot = instant kill
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 10:43:48 AM EST
I load both the 64 gr Winchester powerpoint and 65 gr Sierra Game King, both with 23.8 grains of Ramshot TAC. My son (6) and his cousin (7) both have used these loads over the past 2 years, and each has successfully taken both Doe and Buck out to 100 yards, with max travel about 25 yards on one big 10 pointer. Everything else dropped in 15 yards or less.

However, all shots were broadside and well placed by both boys (both have been shooting since the age of 4, and both use 3 inch 20g turkey hunting)

If someone disagrees with the use of this caliber, let me remind them no shot is a guaranteed stopper. I have seen and heard of deer following broadside shots with 308, 30/30, 30-06, 7mm, 270, and even 300 win mag that have still traveled 20+ yards and some farther that were never recovered. This comes from 30 years of Deer hunting experience.

Link Posted: 6/16/2009 2:42:21 PM EST
Looks like most of you guys are sling'n 63-65 grain lead points, what barrels are you shooting them out of? I've got a lightweight 1/9 16" barrel upper that I'd like to hunt with since it's nice and light, and I should probably get a jump on building a load

PTK
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:33:00 PM EST
I shot two deer with 55 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips. Both shots were lung hits from about 60 yards. Neither deer went more than 20 feet after being shot.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 6:40:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By Zoomer302:

ok I'll be the shit stirrer. With so many better, more ethical choices out there, I have to ask why?


7mm Rem Mag or .223. if they both drop and die quick, which is more ethical? which spoils more meat? for me, i like the 7mm. i have more confidence with a farther/harder shot. i may pass on a shot with the .223 that i would take with the 7mm. but i know the .223 will do the job well and i will be hunting with it more now that my wife will be carrying one. jmho

and for the op- speer trophy bonded bear claw for the .223. speer mag tip for the 7mm (since i referred to it).
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 4:44:14 AM EST
My son took many a buck and doe here in Texas with a .223 single shot shooting 55 grain Remington Core-Lokt. Gun wasn't accurate with anything heavier than 55 as it was 1 in 12 twist. All were recovered, some fell on the spot some ran but not more than 20 or 30 yards. Farthest shot was about 150 yds with none closer than 75, all well placed shots. Shot his first doe with it at 7 yrs old, I traded the gun for a 30-30 last year when he turned 14. YMMV
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 8:42:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 8:43:01 AM EST by FshHead]
Colt AR in .223 (with 55g sp) is all I have ever used.

I have never had a deer run more than 40 yards and 95% were killed with one shot through the heart. Kill ranges of 40 to 250 yards primarily in the open but also in light woods.

Its all about shot placement and the shooter knowing their ability (and the guns) and not exceeding it.

FH
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 9:03:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 9:18:02 AM EST by Hokie]
Originally Posted By GlockFace:
Use winchester 64gr power point bullet.


That'd be my choice too if I ever felt compelled to sink a .22 caliber bullet into a 200 lbs Maine whitetail. Alas...I don't like chasing wounded deer or dragging them 1/4 mile back to the truck....so I elect to lay em flat with 168 grains of .30 caliber.

All you petting-zoo-feedstand-ranch-hunting-110lbs-buck-slaying-head-snipers out there can go roll another one. Size matters when hunting deer, especially outside of 100 yards.

But whatever, do what ya like. I do.

All joking aside, if you're gonna use a 223, I wholeheartedly recommend a 64 grain JSP or powerpoint. Took a fat 140lbs doe at 55 yards with a 64 grain Win power point a couple years back. Hit something in the vitals, it ain't gonna like it. Wouldn't have taken the shot if it weren't so close to me. Penetrate the lungs - it won't go far.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 10:08:48 AM EST
I shot this 275 pound hog in the shoulder at 150 yards with one round of Hornady 5.56X45mm NATO TAP 2 ammo and he dropped dead in his tracks.

The large entrance wound channel shows how effectively the energy transfer occured during penetration.

Normally, I aim about an inch behind the elbow, but accidentally hit his scapula on the way in causing more meat damage than I normally aim for.

The bullet exited the opposite ribcage and left a hole the size of a quarter with two broken ribs.

There were no signs of any intact lung tissue in the thoracic cavity.

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 11:42:29 AM EST
I've killed a deer with a 40 gr Vmax bullet. I didn't mean to shoot that at the deer. I had my SBR with me in the truck entering some property early 1 morning and I saw a buck chasing a doe I jumped out and shot 1 time. I thought I would have to "gun" him down being he was on the run already across a field. I walked over when I didn't see him clear the ditch and found him laying there I had poped him at the lower base of his neck. Total luck shot. I then realized I had the wrong mag in the gun and was shooting 40 gr vmax.........it was pretty lucky if you asked me, but the point is it killed the deer.

My prefered load is 60 gr Nosler Partitions! Bad deer killing bullet. The great thing about an AR is you have the ability for incredibly quick follow up shot if need be!
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 1:59:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By SkyPup:
I shot this 275 pound hog in the shoulder at 150 yards with one round of Hornady 5.56X45mm NATO TAP 2 ammo and he dropped dead in his tracks.

The large entrance wound channel shows how effectively the energy transfer occured during penetration.

Normally, I aim about an inch behind the elbow, but accidentally hit his scapula on the way in causing more meat damage than I normally aim for.

The bullet exited the opposite ribcage and left a hole the size of a quarter with two broken ribs.

There were no signs of any intact lung tissue in the thoracic cavity.

http://www.phossil.com/thom/Hog%20Hole.jpg


Niiiiiiiice hog!
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