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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/5/2005 8:09:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2005 9:02:49 PM EDT by niceguymr]
This is by no means a snub to any hunters out there, so hunters, please don't flame this. I have numerous people near and dear to me who are hunters. In fact, I plan on taking my first hunting trip in the coming months to give it a try.

In another discussion forum, a topic was brought up on how to equip oneself (shotgun related) for a situation like Katrina. I was very surprised to see how people who chose to arm and protect themselves were ridiculed by those who felt that it was more prudent and conservative to have a good insurance policy and get out of dodge.

Now, I don't disagree that keeping you and your family out of harms way is the best course of action. I also don't disagree that one should have a good insurance policy. I just disagree with the whole mentality that if you're willing to ruff it out and hold up the fort, that makes you a macho rambo wannabe as this one guy was accused of. He was even told to take it to another forum.

The reason why I say 'hunting vs defensive' is b/c this other forum seems to be more dominated by the hunting/sporting type of shotgun owner, you know... the kind of folks LIKE the Canadians gun owners that Michael Moore featured in his film BFC. The forum does have a 'tactical' discussion area that does not seem as sheeply, but watch what you say in the 'general discussion' area.

If you're interested in seeing what I'm referring to, you may find it here: (please do not hotlink)

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=55959&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 8:57:21 AM EDT
The Katrina threads in General Discussion have brought out the, uh, "best" in a lot of people.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 2:17:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 3:06:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mike103:
It is hard for us "gun" people to understand but many hunters just view a gun as a tool. They would just as soon stick the game with a spear if it was just a easy to do. My hunting friends are not wraped up in the gun rights issue,. They just want to shoot deer. MIKE.


Perfect answer. Hard to believe.

Keep an eye on the Survival forum as the shotgun is discussed often in there. That is really what you are talking about. If all you own is shotguns why not prepare for every and any scenario you could use them in? The choice may not be yours.

FYI the two best forums for straight up discussion among fairly large groups of posters at ARFCOM are Shotgun and Survival.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 6:35:32 AM EDT
I'm not sure that it is a hunter's tool vs. gun owner's issue, but rather a how do you deal with a SHTF scenario. Some people choose to ride it out and 'bug in'. Should you choose this option then you need to be adequately prepared to handle any and all scenarios that you may face. If I was a single business owner in NO, I may have decided to bug in, assuming I had the necessary supplies - my favorite 870 and Bushy AR come quickly to mind.

Other's would choose to 'bug out' and run like hell out of the affected area. I grew up on the Texas coast and my family bugged out both times we got hit with hurricanes. In both instances, a good insurance policy and the desire to have the family in a safe, friendly environment overweighted saving personal goods.

If you bug in and are willing to protect your possessions with a gun, then some may see you as the macho rambo wannabe. While there may be a little keyboard commando going on, I think the personal situation you get put in, really drives the coarse of action. If a hurricane ever hits NH (not a very likely scenario) I'd bug out, but if another ice storm hits - I'm buggin in. It really gets down to what you personally value and how far you would go to protect it - family or possessions.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 6:48:05 AM EDT
As a hunter, sport shooter, EBR owner and SHTF preparer. It is a bad issue actually, the local range I use every once and a while, I get many sneers and jeers when I bring the Ar or one of my "combat ready" shotguns. Now if I bring the Browning A-bolt or my Wingmaster to brush for the up coming seasons, I get the good ole boy effect.

Like said above most hunters could care less about our fight for gun ownership, because everything they use is never "under the gun" by the gun grabbers. I can guarantee if they started legislation against 30-30s or .270s they be right in the middle of the fight. Many of times while buying Ar parts I have gotten then "Whaddaya need that fer" from the guy with the Marlin 30-30. Gun rights will continue to be stripped away until we all band together and fight together, or really get them in on the fight.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 9:04:08 PM EDT
I see everyone's point here.

I'm really beginning to get annoyed in that thread I posted about earlier. I know I'm just wasting my breath, but still... These people are so freaking Sheepish it's pathetic.

In case you need a reminder....

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=55959&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 9:12:04 PM EDT
We call them Hobby Shooters.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 9:21:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 11:21:29 AM EDT by niceguymr]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
We call them Hobby Shooters.



So then what do we call us?

I know THEY call us "Let's make legitimate gun owners look like killing freaks". WTF is that all about???

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 12:44:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 12:51:58 PM EDT
Insurance policies and early bugout is great... if you can get it. I doubt that if/when a huge terrorist attack occurs in a major city, that the terrorists will give everyone the benefit of several days notice that hurricanes do.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 4:18:33 PM EDT
Oh well, the thread got locked, but just in time for me to set this one asshat straight and have the final word. I'm glad that's over.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 4:18:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 4:21:24 PM EDT by AJAX15]
I love guns and shooting and I'll use any excuse to participate in activities that afford shooting opportunities. Hunting's a blast...so's target shooting, and I REALLY love workin on guns, that's how I got started on ARF.com. I'm not in law enforcement nor have I ever been in the military. I'm just Joe Citizen and although I'm certainly not eager shoot someone in self defense or combat, I certainly won't be ill-equipped or unprepared should that dreaded moment ever come. Tactical weaponry is the natural extension of firearms development. Sporting arms were a secondary phenomenon. All early guns were developed as tactical weapons using the most cutting edge designs and manufacturing techniques of the time. The earliest "hand gonne" was developed in the fifteenth century. It was a small cannon with a touch-hole for ignition. It was unsteady, required that the user prop it on a stand, brace it with one hand against his chest and use his other hand to touch a lighted match to the touch-hole, and had an effective range of only about thirty to fourty yards. It surely must have taken iron nerves to use one of these against a charging knight, nearly within a lance's reach, when the powder might not even ignite. Fast forward a couple of centuries and we finally get to the introduction of the percussion cap but muskets are still the standard for infantrymen and hunting isn't a sport yet, it's a means of survival. The most reveared sporting guns have all seen duty as assault weapons. Don't be scared of the "A" word people, it's the truth! Today's best bolt actions are the legacy of the Mausers of "The Big War". The first successful repeating shotgun, Winchester's M97 became the first trench gun and riot gun and so did the first successful auto loading shotgun the venerable Browning Auto5. Others scatterguns popular in these rolls were and continue to be Ithaca M37s, Remington 870s & 11-87s and Mossberg 500s as well as offerings from HK Benelli and Beretta. The entire sport of Cowboy Action Shooting is based upon a Hollywood version of American frontier "home defense". For "sporting shooters" to deny the viability of a need for a tactical style of shooting or firearm is ludicrous...but I guess I'm preaching to the quior here huh? Hey mike103, how about lurkin' over to shotgunworld.com and posting a link to this thread. Never mind, they probably wouldn't get it anyway.

edited for spellign
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 4:43:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AJAX15:
I love guns and shooting and I'll use any excuse to participate in activities that afford shooting opportunities. Hunting's a blast...so's target shooting, and I REALLY love workin on guns, that's how I got started on ARF.com. I'm not in law enforcement nor have I ever been in the military. I'm just Joe Citizen and although I'm certainly not eager shoot someone in self defense or combat, I certainly won't be ill-equipped or unprepared should that dreaded moment ever come. Tactical weaponry is the natural extension of firearms development. Sporting arms were a secondary phenomenon. All early guns were developed as tactical weapons using the most cutting edge designs and manufacturing techniques of the time. The earliest "hand gonne" was developed in the fifteenth century. It was a small cannon with a touch-hole for ignition. It was unsteady, required that the user prop it on a stand, brace it with one hand against his chest and use his other hand to touch a lighted match to the touch-hole, and had an effective range of only about thirty to fourty yards. It surely must have taken iron nerves to use one of these against a charging knight, nearly within a lance's reach, when the powder might not even ignite. Fast forward a couple of centuries and we finally get to the introduction of the percussion cap but muskets are still the standard for infantrymen and hunting isn't a sport yet, it's a means of survival. The most reveared sporting guns have all seen duty as assault weapons. Don't be scared of the "A" word people, it's the truth! Today's best bolt actions are the legacy of the Mausers of "The Big War". The first successful repeating shotgun, Winchester's M97 became the first trench gun and riot gun and so did the first successful auto loading shotgun the venerable Browning Auto5. Others scatterguns popular in these rolls were and continue to be Ithaca M37s, Remington 870s & 11-87s and Mossberg 500s as well as offerings from HK Benelli and Beretta. The entire sport of Cowboy Action Shooting is based upon a Hollywood version of American frontier "home defense". For "sporting shooters" to deny the viability of a need for a tactical style of shooting or firearm is ludicrous...but I guess I'm preaching to the quior here huh? Hey mike103, how about lurkin' over to shotgunworld.com and posting a link to this thread. Never mind, they probably wouldn't get it anyway.

edited for spellign



I'll be glad to do it for you.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 4:49:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 4:54:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mike103:
It is my personnel belief that posting links from one discussion board to another is impolite. Shotgunworld.com has their board policies and their members have their style of posting. I would never foster us v them threads and links. MIKE.



Agreed. I just cut and pasted and explained that it was quote from 'another' forum. I didn't post a link.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 4:58:06 PM EDT
Guys the posting a link suggestion was only sarcasm!
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 5:01:13 PM EDT
No names or anything revealing where or who said what is evident in the post.

AJAX, I have to say that I enjoyed your explanation and found it to be very informative. I wish I could have stated the same as eloquently as you did.

As I said, there is no link, nor names of anyone included in the cut and paste job. I will gladly remove it at your request.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 5:06:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
the kind of folks LIKE the Canadians gun owners that Michael Moore featured in his film BFC.





Did not see it, but I hunt, AND I own firearms for defensive (and possibly at soem time offensive) purposes.


Michael Moore is a big fat idiot, he has no understanding of the firearms culture, or the reality of Canuck firearm's owners. There are many who own only a couple rifles and a shotty for hunting, but many of us started buying "evil" firearms after the registry came into being. I have dozens of handguns, USGI rifles, other war rifles, Hell, I have a drum fed .22 just in case they try to ban those types of firearms......
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:59:50 PM EDT

I will gladly remove it at your request.



I slung it into the "public domain" and therefore relenquished any further control.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:03:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AJAX15:

I will gladly remove it at your request.



I slung it into the "public domain" and therefore relenquished any further control.



Absolutely not so. I will gladly and quickly retract my post. I have since checked and it has not been further quoted or copied. You are the author and I respect your opinion, and/or desire to keep it public or private so just say the word.

I would also like to add that since posting a copy of your reply (minus any personal or website references), I have gotten significant support from a few members including one that is a site administrator and co-owner. I think you really did a good job at explaining what I would have liked to have said, and people responded well to it.

I will IM you with the link so you can see for yourself.
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