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Posted: 1/25/2014 6:06:41 AM EDT
Been starting to look heavily at finally getting a decent safe, specifically the Am Sec BF6024 (720 lbs).  My concern is if my floor will hold it, living in a second floor apartment.  We wont be in an Apt forever so Id rather buy a decent safe now.  Im not much of a construction guy so if anyone has any experience and what they have used in the same circumstance it would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 1/25/2014 6:10:06 AM EDT
You gave no info on how to advise you
Construction?
Link Posted: 1/25/2014 6:27:23 AM EDT
Really?  If you have used a quality safe, in a second floor apartment, how heavy of a safe were you comfortable using there?  

The construction reference is that I have no idea the weight bearing properties of the average construction of an apartment.
Link Posted: 1/25/2014 6:37:23 AM EDT
Should it be a problem?  No.  Could it be?  Yes.  You should consult with your building owner for permission, or inquire with a professional engineer if you want to be 100% certain.

Link Posted: 1/25/2014 7:23:01 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By jmill79:
Really?  If you have used a quality safe, in a second floor apartment, how heavy of a safe were you comfortable using there?  

The construction reference is that I have no idea the weight bearing properties of the average construction of an apartment.
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What do you mean really?
I have seen apartments in buildings 200 years old, and brand new construction; stone, block, concrete and stick construction. You think there might be some differences?

You should be fine, as the weight is spread out, but how can anyone make a judgment without any details other than the floor you are on?


Link Posted: 1/25/2014 8:02:14 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By jmill79:
Really?  If you have used a quality safe, in a second floor apartment, how heavy of a safe were you comfortable using there?  

The construction reference is that I have no idea the weight bearing properties of the average construction of an apartment.
View Quote


if you want more valid input and want other peoples help, you really need to provide some more details on the construction type so that others may more accurately assist you.  eg, you're on floor 2 of a 50 story concrete & steel brand new high-rise or on floor 2 of a 100 year old dilapidated frame shack.  with that, ~700#'s isn't very much spread over 4+ sq ft, so you should be fine.
Link Posted: 1/25/2014 10:27:27 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By _Matt_:



What do you mean really?
I have seen apartments in buildings 200 years old, and brand new construction; stone, block, concrete and stick construction. You think there might be some differences?

You should be fine, as the weight is spread out, but how can anyone make a judgment without any details other than the floor you are on?


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Originally Posted By _Matt_:
Originally Posted By jmill79:
Really?  If you have used a quality safe, in a second floor apartment, how heavy of a safe were you comfortable using there?  

The construction reference is that I have no idea the weight bearing properties of the average construction of an apartment.



What do you mean really?
I have seen apartments in buildings 200 years old, and brand new construction; stone, block, concrete and stick construction. You think there might be some differences?

You should be fine, as the weight is spread out, but how can anyone make a judgment without any details other than the floor you are on?




Ah my apologies, misunderstood your first post.  This is just a 2 story building, built in the mid 80's, from what I would guess is standard wood construction.  The floor is a bit odd (too me anyway) as when I went to secure my pistol safe to the floor, it seamed almost concrete like while running the screws down.
Link Posted: 1/25/2014 10:34:40 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By jmill79:


Ah my apologies, misunderstood your first post.  This is just a 2 story building, built in the mid 80's, from what I would guess is standard wood construction.  The floor is a bit odd (too me anyway) as when I went to secure my pistol safe to the floor, it seamed almost concrete like while running the screws down.
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Originally Posted By jmill79:
Originally Posted By _Matt_:
Originally Posted By jmill79:
Really?  If you have used a quality safe, in a second floor apartment, how heavy of a safe were you comfortable using there?  

The construction reference is that I have no idea the weight bearing properties of the average construction of an apartment.



What do you mean really?
I have seen apartments in buildings 200 years old, and brand new construction; stone, block, concrete and stick construction. You think there might be some differences?

You should be fine, as the weight is spread out, but how can anyone make a judgment without any details other than the floor you are on?




Ah my apologies, misunderstood your first post.  This is just a 2 story building, built in the mid 80's, from what I would guess is standard wood construction.  The floor is a bit odd (too me anyway) as when I went to secure my pistol safe to the floor, it seamed almost concrete like while running the screws down.


It may be a layer of light weight concrete or gypcrete. It's commonly used in multistory buildings for its fire and sound control benefits.
Link Posted: 1/25/2014 4:47:36 PM EDT
A high quality fridge weighs in at 700# and is approximately the same size.  I'd place it in a corner or against a wall and not worry about it.
Link Posted: 1/25/2014 7:19:01 PM EDT
I dont know where you found a fridge weighing 700lbs....  maybe a commercial model... a modern 25 cubic foot model is about 200lbs. an old clanker steel model is only around 250lbs

to the point, I seriously doubt the wisdom of this.  this is someone elses building.  if you damage it, the cost will very likely exceed the cost of your firearms and the safe.  im sure the structure  will hold it, but the floor may give to the dolly wheeling it in.  if you have a concrete mezzanine style floor, the commonly accepted weight limit is 125lb per sq/ft...
Link Posted: 1/25/2014 8:21:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2014 8:22:05 PM EDT by surban1]
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Originally Posted By exigent:
I dont know where you found a fridge weighing 700lbs....  maybe a commercial model... a modern 25 cubic foot model is about 200lbs. an old clanker steel model is only around 250lbs

to the point, I seriously doubt the wisdom of this.  this is someone elses building.  if you damage it, the cost will very likely exceed the cost of your firearms and the safe.  im sure the structure  will hold it, but the floor may give to the dolly wheeling it in.  if you have a concrete mezzanine style floor, the commonly accepted weight limit is 125lb per sq/ft...
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i'd say the average (median income household's) 25 ft3 fridge weighs ~ 300# EMPTY, and there could easily be another 150#+ of food in there on top of that.  i'd venture that average full fridge is ~450# +/- 75#.  hungry person (or 2) standing in front of it looking in for something to eat and you'd be a biscuit away from 700#!

usually min floor capacity is 40 #/ft2, but that's for the ENTIRE floor square footage (ie, a 10X10 room would have to be able to support 4000#s over it's entire area.)  a smaller area can safely carry much more than that (think of 3 "husky" guys standing near each other) as the floor, subfloor and supports distribute that load to/over a much larger area.  unless when this guy walks around his place, the floor or walls shake, i'd bet that the floor will safely handle 700#s (especially if it's put near an outside wall or near a load bearing wall).  if he were talking about a 2000# safe, i'd be concerned/scared, but for 700, i'd say minimal chance of disaster.  

ps i'm NOT a structural engineer, architect, builder or etc, etc.  i'm just saying that I wouldn't lose any sleep with a 700# safe anywhere in my place.  and if I were, i'd get 4 fat friends to stand where I was thinking of putting the safe and have them bounce (& then jump) up-and-down
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 4:01:16 AM EDT
Many of the subzero line routinely weigh in at that weight. Add food and someone staring at said food and you could be up there. If it were me in an apartment off the ground floor, I'd get one of the snap together safes for guns.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:43:37 AM EDT
I would definitely get permission (Don't want to get told NO as the safe installer is wheeling it up the stairs)
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 9:03:33 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By surban1:
usually min floor capacity is 40 #/ft2, but that's for the ENTIRE floor square footage (ie, a 10X10 room would have to be able to support 4000#s over it's entire area.)  a smaller area can safely carry much more than that (think of 3 "husky" guys standing near each other) as the floor, subfloor and supports distribute that load to/over a much larger area.  unless when this guy walks around his place, the floor or walls shake, i'd bet that the floor will safely handle 700#s (especially if it's put near an outside wall or near a load bearing wall).  if he were talking about a 2000# safe, i'd be concerned/scared, but for 700, i'd say minimal chance of disaster.  
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surban1 is correct... floor loading is conservative on an epic scale. Let's put things in proper perspective. A 250 lb man, standing on one foot, is probably standing on less than 1/2 square foot. That's over 500 lbs/ft² without any consideration for the dynamics of motion, which could easily triple that load. If floor loading was so tenuous, that guy would be deforming the floor noticeably. Not happening. Another gut-check... when you move that 300 lb fridge on a dolly, one of those wheels on the dolly are probably carrying the load on a footprint less than 4 in². So, 150 lbs on spot that small equates to around 5,000 lbs/ft².

So, when an architectural load is calculated, it is a structural load for the entire floor structure, and has several times the real capacity added as a factor of safety. They are not talking about a point load. In addition, the area in the room has a huge impact on sustained load bearing, where the areas against walls and other structural features add substantially to the practical loads. A 700lb safe with a footprint around 3 ft² is trivial, seriously trivial. Your 4-post bed with two adults in it are probably imposing many times that point loading.

Put your safe wherever you want, and stop worrying about permission or damages. You have no concerns...
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 9:35:49 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TheSafeGuy:


surban1 is correct... floor loading is conservative on an epic scale. Let's put things in proper perspective. A 250 lb man, standing on one foot, is probably standing on less than 1/2 square foot. That's over 500 lbs/ft² without any consideration for the dynamics of motion, which could easily triple that load. If floor loading was so tenuous, that guy would be deforming the floor noticeably. Not happening. Another gut-check... when you move that 300 lb fridge on a dolly, one of those wheels on the dolly are probably carrying the load on a footprint less than 4 in². So, 150 lbs on spot that small equates to around 5,000 lbs/ft².

So, when an architectural load is calculated, it is a structural load for the entire floor structure, and has several times the real capacity added as a factor of safety. They are not talking about a point load. In addition, the area in the room has a huge impact on sustained load bearing, where the areas against walls and other structural features add substantially to the practical loads. A 700lb safe with a footprint around 3 ft² is trivial, seriously trivial. Your 4-post bed with two adults in it are probably imposing many times that point loading.

Put your safe wherever you want, and stop worrying about permission or damages. You have no concerns...
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Originally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By surban1:
usually min floor capacity is 40 #/ft2, but that's for the ENTIRE floor square footage (ie, a 10X10 room would have to be able to support 4000#s over it's entire area.)  a smaller area can safely carry much more than that (think of 3 "husky" guys standing near each other) as the floor, subfloor and supports distribute that load to/over a much larger area.  unless when this guy walks around his place, the floor or walls shake, i'd bet that the floor will safely handle 700#s (especially if it's put near an outside wall or near a load bearing wall).  if he were talking about a 2000# safe, i'd be concerned/scared, but for 700, i'd say minimal chance of disaster.  


surban1 is correct... floor loading is conservative on an epic scale. Let's put things in proper perspective. A 250 lb man, standing on one foot, is probably standing on less than 1/2 square foot. That's over 500 lbs/ft² without any consideration for the dynamics of motion, which could easily triple that load. If floor loading was so tenuous, that guy would be deforming the floor noticeably. Not happening. Another gut-check... when you move that 300 lb fridge on a dolly, one of those wheels on the dolly are probably carrying the load on a footprint less than 4 in². So, 150 lbs on spot that small equates to around 5,000 lbs/ft².

So, when an architectural load is calculated, it is a structural load for the entire floor structure, and has several times the real capacity added as a factor of safety. They are not talking about a point load. In addition, the area in the room has a huge impact on sustained load bearing, where the areas against walls and other structural features add substantially to the practical loads. A 700lb safe with a footprint around 3 ft² is trivial, seriously trivial. Your 4-post bed with two adults in it are probably imposing many times that point loading.

Put your safe wherever you want, and stop worrying about permission or damages. You have no concerns...


Thread got off to a rough start but I appreciate the replies, thanks!
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 9:41:31 AM EDT
Better not chance it.  I know, send me your guns!  I will allow a once a year visitation.
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