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Posted: 6/10/2009 2:45:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/10/2009 2:46:25 PM EST by goodoleboy]
I know the complete Surplus m14 rifle never happened but read Bill Clinton Ordered them destroyed? Did he single out that certain gun for destruction, or did by the time they were surplus he ordered them destroyed? Or was it misinformation on the net about Bill and our beloved rifle? I heard it was only our service rifle for 7 years or so, so how many were produced approximately you think?

Anyone have a number of how many prooduced vs. Numbers destroyed?

Thanks
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 2:55:22 PM EST
I know that there were about 1.5 Million made by H&R, S.A., TRW and Winchester in a very short period of time (4 years)......I have no idea the exact number that was demilled, "sold" or given away to countries but ill bet that there are far less than 500K left in US government inventory.
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 3:08:46 PM EST
Can the demilled guns be remade? if so someone should buy them from the military academies and do so
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 3:24:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/10/2009 4:29:10 PM EST by Milo5]
Once a machinegun always a machinegun ruling eliminates the possibility or even rewelding receivers much less seeing complete rifles released to the masses.
Stripped kits less the receiver, selector, and connecter bar isn't too much to hope for.
Civilians could then rebuid the rifles using new semi auto only receivers.

Less than 25,000 M14 rifles remain servicable and in US service by the last reports I remember reading.
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 3:27:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By Milo5:
Once a machinegun always a machinegun ruling eliminates the possibility or even rewelding receivers much less seeing complete rifles released to the masses.
Stripped kits less the receiver, selector, and receiver isn't too much to hope for.
Civilians could then rebuid the rifles using new semi auto only receivers.

Less than 25,000 M14 rifles remain servicable and in US service by the last reports I remember reading.


WOW..I read the NAVY never switched over to the M16 platform and stuck with m14.If thats true then I would assume not many left in the marines or Army armory's..
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 3:38:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/10/2009 3:41:33 PM EST by Milo5]
It would really come as a major shock just how many servicable US military weapons were destroyed or given away during the Clinton Administration.
Not just M14s either.
Target grade .22 rifles and handguns, .38 Special revolvers, military issue sporting and defense shotguns, light, medium, and heavy machineguns.
The lists go on and on and would make you ill to read.

With some digging I may be able to come up with some links.
The National Rifle Association also maintains some records on this blatant waste of taxpayer dollars.
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 3:55:04 PM EST
The Navy had begun the transition of its shipboard defense rfile from the M14 to the M16 in the 70s with the 688-class submarine being equipped with the M16A1. The other class subs kept M14s until the mid-90s, when we transitioned to M16A3s, a FULL (no BURST) version of the M16A2. After the Cole bombing in 2000, Force Protection was upgraded fleet-wide and even included submarines being issued MK46s and later Mk43 MGs. I am sure the Surface Warfare community received similar small arms upgrades.

The fate of the remaining M14s in Navy inventory is unknown to me, but I know the Navy wasn't cutting them up in the 90s like I saw at Quantico in 91. Literally hundreds of barreled receivers laid out getting the cutting torch. Hundreds and thousands of magazines meeting a sledge hammer.
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 5:37:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/10/2009 5:38:34 PM EST by Beater9C1]
Springfield Armory - 167,107
Winchester - 356,510
Harrington Richardson - 537,625
Thompson Ramo Wooldridge - 314,789

Grand total 1,376,031 produced

Estimated destroyed 750,000

Springfield Armory and TRW both made national match rifles. 11,424 of them with most made by SA.

This info is from "The M14 owners guide" by Scott Duff

There is probally more than 25,000 still in service, plus you have to count all those on "loan" to law enforcement.
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 5:48:21 PM EST
A bunch were given away to Estonia and other former Warsaw Pact break away countries.

I think a shitload of them were given away to Vietnam and the Philippines too.
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 6:18:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/10/2009 6:19:28 PM EST by wessono]
I was at the Marine Corps Logistics Base in Albany GA in 1996 and was given a tour of a small arms weapons processing facility. I saw M14's in brand new condition being taken out of their protective foil envelopes, dipped in a preservative solution and being repacked, in an assembly line type of operation.

I saw boxes maybe 4'X4' on pallets, full of M16A1's ready for shipment "somewhere", they wouldn't say where. There were SAW's and other medium to heavy weapons on pallets waiting for refurbishing.

Lastly, I saw up close, M14's in new condition being turned into drill rifles. The worker's did it like nothing but it really tore me up inside.

Another thing was that they were driving M151 Jeeps around as courier type vehicles that were in new condition with new tops on them. I asked about the tops and was told that they had the capability there to duplicate just about anything they needed to refurbish equipment, and that having a new top made for them was nothing.
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 6:47:42 PM EST
There are literally thousands of M14 rifles buried somewhere on Utah's Dugway Proving Ground property. The "new" Area 51, BTW.
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 9:43:33 PM EST
25,000 servicable, ready to use weapons is a fairly accurate figure.
Rifles dipped in grease ten years ago are the same ones being used in today's conflicts.
Figure at most, 5000, no more, on "loan" to PDs leaves 20,000.
Another 5000 buried in some mythical proving ground, that leave 15,000 servicable weapons and no more than 10,000 are in issue to troops at this time.
That leaves 5000 servicable, ready to use, rifles in back-up plus another, rough guess here, 50,000 unservicable weapons to be cannabalized for parts to support the weapons in use.
To give you an idea how dire the supply of M14 rifles really is, there are well over two million servicable, ready to issue M16 rifles of all types in the system right now.

You guys have to understand the current issue of M14 rifles is a temporary stop gap solution to an unforeseen problem.
It isn't designed to be a permanent thing and the weapons will be withdrawn as soon as acceptable replacements are procured in numbers sufficient to meet the demand.
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 10:08:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/10/2009 10:09:38 PM EST by Joel621R]
I remember on the way back from the Gulf in 94 watching M14'S and parts being tossed off the fantail of the ship I was on going back to the states..
Made me sick as hell...
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:44:06 AM EST
I know of at least four of them that were given new receivers and now live in my gunsafe.......
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:09:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By wesmerc:
Can the demilled guns be remade? if so someone should buy them from the military academies and do so

That's exactly what Springfield Armory Inc. and others did.

Early Springfield Inc. M1A's were almost exclusively USGI surplus parts from demilled rifles and government parts bins.

As the parts got used up, Springfield began sourcing their own parts to cover M1A production.

Most of the demilled gun's parts have long since hit the surplus market.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 8:54:54 AM EST
This thread makes me want to cry
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 9:24:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By ThePitbullofLove:

Originally Posted By wesmerc:
Can the demilled guns be remade? if so someone should buy them from the military academies and do so

That's exactly what Springfield Armory Inc. and others did.

Early Springfield Inc. M1A's were almost exclusively USGI surplus parts from demilled rifles and government parts bins.As the parts got used up, Springfield began sourcing their own parts to cover M1A production.

Most of the demilled gun's parts have long since hit the surplus market.


That's what my M1a is. Cast receiver with all USGI parts, Winchester barrel and TRW parts . Made in '95

Link Posted: 6/11/2009 9:48:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By weptek911:
Originally Posted By ThePitbullofLove:

Originally Posted By wesmerc:
Can the demilled guns be remade? if so someone should buy them from the military academies and do so

That's exactly what Springfield Armory Inc. and others did.

Early Springfield Inc. M1A's were almost exclusively USGI surplus parts from demilled rifles and government parts bins.As the parts got used up, Springfield began sourcing their own parts to cover M1A production.

Most of the demilled gun's parts have long since hit the surplus market.


That's what my M1a is. Cast receiver with all USGI parts, Winchester barrel and TRW parts . Made in '95


My Springfield is from 5/80, and the only non-USGI part I can find is the receiver.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 8:32:27 PM EST
what a complete ignorant waste of our American tax dollar.

the M14 holds its own among anything, new and old. its relaible...and pretty accurate for a battle rifle.
Only in America....lets cut up paid for goods for no good reason.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 6:54:25 AM EST
It makes ya wonder If they would even be considering an AR 7.62 type gun as a DMR if all those M14s were not hacked up.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 10:20:50 AM EST
My guess is most likely not, since the Military soundly shot down the AR10 rifle the first time around.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 11:25:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By Milo5:
My guess is most likely not, since the Military soundly shot down the AR10 rifle the first time around.


I am talking about newer versions like the SR-25 and M-110.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 1:13:02 PM EST
I think the numbers listed here are a little low for the numbers of M14s still in service. On a different forum, member Different (who should correct me if I am wrong) stated that the following numbers were still in service with the various branches:

U. S. Army

July 2007: The U. S. Army had 22,660 M14 rifles in use and 87,462 M14 rifles in depot storage.

May 2008 - The U. S. Army had 3,638 M14 rifles on loan to the 1033 program (law enforcement agencies).

U. S. Navy

The U. S. Navy had 4,354 M14 rifles in its inventory in May 2007. During the summer of 2007, all M14 rifles aboard ships were replaced with the M16A3. That accounted for about 2,000 M14 rifles. My guess is that those rifles removed from the Navy ships were returned to NSWC Crane or Rock Island Arsenal but it's a guess.

U. S. Air Force

The U. S. Air Force held about 3,500 M14 rifles in mid-2007.

U. S. Marine Corps

As of early 2009, 621 M14 DMR rifles had been converted to M39 EMR configuration. The Marine Corps likely has other M14 rifles in inventory but I don't have that information. It's my understanding that the M14 rifles at MCJROTC units were replaced in 2007 with M1903 rifles but I don't have confirmation on that.

Link Posted: 6/14/2009 9:06:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 9:07:27 AM EST by chaindrive]
i was a gunners mate stationed on a destroyer escort until late 1969. the ship's armory still had M1's in our inventory.

i have to assume that the M1's were later replaced with M16's (if they were replaced at all).

come to think of it, we qualified with M1's in basic training in 1966. i never had the pleasure of firing the M14.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 12:01:01 AM EST
Here's one TRW NM M14 that is still in service. I carried in Iraq in 04' and shoot the long range event with it in the 06' All Army Match.





That's my oldest son with me in Baghdad in 04'. We'll be both in Baghdad again next month (I'm already here).

CD
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:48:43 AM EST
Hopefully your time won't be as dramatic as this go around as things were in 04.
Keep your head down.
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