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Posted: 9/22/2004 12:08:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 5:29:58 PM EST by Blain]
Just trying to get a sense of where I am in terms of shooting skills. The following targets were shot at 100 meters in the prone position using a standard web sling and a hasty sling hold (to duplicate combat shooting conditions). I shot on bare concrete without a mat, and in only a t-shirt and shorts. The rifle was a standard M14 with aussie surplus ammo.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=1253501

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=1253505

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=1253509


**************EDITED TO ADD*****************

Perhaps this will help clear things up. Those pictures I posted above are not all one group, they are several (10-15) groups shot on the same target. The following picture shows more along the lines of the types of groups I am getting, as I have each group circled. The groups in the pictures above should be around the same size, or slightly smaller, but I have more of those groups at/near the center of the target than I did for this one.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=1254136

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 12:17:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 12:18:35 PM EST by sgthoskins]
If that was slow fire you may want to take up golf. I kid. I kid!!! You wont get consistant chamber pressure with surplus ammo. Get some match grade ammo and try again.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 12:26:03 PM EST
Given the conditions stated, you need not be ashamed of your performance. LOTS of those minute-of-angle and smaller groups are fired on the keyboard!
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 1:45:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 4:29:55 PM EST by rad2112]
You're sure you weren't using a shotgun?

Either buy Match Ammo or Reload.
Your pattern will improve dramtically! ...Trust me
I had a few Marine Corp Vets train me how to shoot for CMP matches.
My first time out, I took 2nd place in Charlie Division.

Look for "U.S. Marine Corps Scout/Sniper Training Manual"
www.gun-room.com/product576.html

It will help you to improve your discipline and tighten up that group.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 3:45:54 PM EST
Thats as good/better then I can shoot.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:32:53 PM EST
**************EDITED TO ADD*****************

Perhaps this will help clear things up. Those pictures I posted above are not all one group, they are several (10-15) groups shot on the same target. The following picture shows more along the lines of the types of groups I am getting, as I have each group circled. The groups in the pictures above should be around the same size, or slightly smaller, but I have more of those groups at/near the center of the target than I did for this one.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=1254136

As for rapid or slow, heck, I don't know. I just get down in prone, and fire for effect soon as I can steady myself from the last shot.

I don't like the NM slings much, because in a SHTF situation, one would not have that sling as it is heavy and would not hold up well in adverse conditions. Likewise, I do not like having the websling in the "correct" format for shooting because then I can not use my sling for carrying, as I would in a SHTF/combat situation. I need to make the conditions for combat as real as they get.

I used to have 20/15 vision, but it has degraded and I now need glasses to even see the bull well at 100 meters. I am considering getting corrective eye laser surgery to correct this, however.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:16:24 AM EST
Your individual groups of 3-5 look reasonable for surplus ammo but I wonder why they (the groups themselves) are shifting around so much.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:51:03 PM EST
I met a real life Navy Seal Sniper at the gun range one day and he could shoot way better than that.......if only he had brought the right rifle with him.

That's good shooting, but everyone can always improve. That's what keeps you going back to range.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:52:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By fastang50:
Your individual groups of 3-5 look reasonable for surplus ammo but I wonder why they (the groups themselves) are shifting around so much.



My guess is that he has an inconsistent cheek weld, which is a common problem with Garands and M1As.

Blain, if your face isn't in the same spot every time on the stock of the rifle, your point of impact will change with each group because the way you view the sights changes, you are looking through the sights in a different way each time even if you are lining them up the same way. What I do with my Garand is, I hold onto the stock with my right hand, the trigger finger hand, the same way every time, so that my thumb curls over the top of the stock the same way every time. Then, I put my face right behind my hand, so my mouth is actually "kissing" the first knuckle of my thumb. And I hold the gun the same way, every shot.

Now you may have bigger hands or a smaller face or something like that so my technique may not work for you. The point is, come up with some kind of way to index yourself, to hold the rifle consistently every time you shoot it, and your groups will start to shrink. Better ammo won't hurt either but you aren't shooting to the limits of the ammunition yet.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:54:27 PM EST
Was that with the "full" choke tube?
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 5:32:58 AM EST
My grandfather did some time in WWII. A couple years ago I was at the range trying to site a 30/30 with a scope in. I couldn't hit anything. He takes the gun from me and shot a 3 and they were all within an inch of each other....with open sites.

Needless to say he is a waaayyy better shot than me
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 4:52:13 PM EST

Don't listen to all of these guys tell you it is bad - I never see them posting their groups. Get some sandbags, a mat of some sort to lay on, and try match ammo. You will continue to improve over time as well. Every one of those shots would have killed whoever you were aiming at, if it were for real.

Link Posted: 9/24/2004 5:08:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:
Don't listen to all of these guys tell you it is bad - I never see them posting their groups. Get some sandbags, a mat of some sort to lay on, and try match ammo. You will continue to improve over time as well. Every one of those shots would have killed whoever you were aiming at, if it were for real.




Yeah, definitely don't get discouraged. You're passing the "dude test", which my wife invented while shooting my G3 clone. And I quote: "Who cares where the hole is? If that was a dude, he'd be dead and his buddies would be ducking."

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