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Posted: 7/14/2008 1:09:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/14/2008 9:45:21 AM EST by silascobb]
My understanding is that this is legal per ATF if it is non-portable Edit: does not attach to the gun at all.

I read or saw somewhere where the idea is to assemble a line of tires (attached together) and that that would act somewhat to dampen reports.

Anybody ever make one of these? Have tips on building one? Any ways to improve suppression? How effective or ineffective is it?

FWIW, this would be out in the country, and I'd like to setup a small range on my land, but would like to minimize noise reaching neighbors.

Primarily it'd be pistol shooting, and I know I have to worry about supersonic crack too (for which I'm looking to get some sub-sonic ammo).

Comments/Suggestions/Issues?


Edited title to replace "suppressor" with more descriptive names.
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 2:39:45 AM EST
I'm tagging this, I have been thinking of doing the same thing. I would like to take the edge off of center fire rifle cartridges that I fire in my yard.
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 2:45:01 AM EST
I did some more Googling and one thing I saw was fill the insides of the tires (at least the tire wall area) with non-expanding foam which presumably would soak up even more of the noise.

Also suggested was carpet remnants but that was more for like a hollow tube setup.

Anyway, hoping somebody will chime in, otherwise I think I might just cross-post this in GD.
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 2:56:28 AM EST
I remember seeing a drawing/picture of this before. Someone took a 55 gallon drum and found 4-5 tires that fit snug inside, and stuffed them in the drum/barrel, and shot through it. It's basically a gigantic suppressor.
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 6:18:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/14/2008 6:44:09 AM EST by silascobb]

Originally Posted By gtpness:
I remember seeing a drawing/picture of this before. Someone took a 55 gallon drum and found 4-5 tires that fit snug inside, and stuffed them in the drum/barrel, and shot through it. It's basically a gigantic suppressor.


Yeah, I think I had seen the same thing, and saved it, but apparently not.

I was thinking more along the lines of truck tires (which would better accomodate pistol shooting as opposed to a rifle on a rest). I'm not sure what benefit is had by stuffing the tires inside a confined space?

If there was an appreciable benefit to doing so, I think I'd maybe cover the entire setup tires, bench and all with dirt instead.

Anyway, here's some links I've found while hitting Google:

castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-14555.html

One post there suggested using tires of ascending followed by descending size so that the middle of the section has the largest volume. That's an idea.

Couple more links:
www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226491

shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=23982

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080228080707AAX9l3k
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 6:19:18 AM EST
There used to be plans for this exact thing in Shooting Times magazine and it was called a gun muffler. I have a set of the plans and they are copyrighted by Rick Jamison, 1993. He used barrels welded together and packed with tires. The tires were filled with metal machining chips (curly q's) and held in place by a coarse mesh. The chips were used as they were non-flammable. There was a hole in the bottom so you could wash out the unburnt powder that collected inside. I never did build it because there was a lot of discussion about whether or not it was legal in my state (Kansas). I had collected some barrels that had the tops held on with clamps and figured I could clamp the barrels together and still get them apart for cleaning if it became necessary.
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 6:33:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By silascobb:
My understanding is that this is legal per ATF if it is non-portable.



"portable" refers to the firearm, not the silencer.

(24) The terms ``firearm silencer'' and ``firearm muffler'' mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 6:45:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
"portable" refers to the firearm, not the silencer.


Ah, okay.

But the key thing is that you are not attaching anything to the firearm, right. It's just like if you were to put up soundproofing on the inside of an indoor range, which is obviously legal.
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 6:56:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By silascobb:

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
"portable" refers to the firearm, not the silencer.


Ah, okay.

But the key thing is that you are not attaching anything to the firearm, right. It's just like if you were to put up soundproofing on the inside of an indoor range, which is obviously legal.


If it cannot be affixed to a portable firearm, then it's ok.

It works, not as well as a real suppressor of course, but tires inside a drum is the most common type I've seen.
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 7:03:42 AM EST
Its no different than those firearm clearing thingys that are in the front of some gunshops and I think the military used them b4 going into the armory.
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 3:43:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kuraki:
[SNIP] tires inside a drum is the most common type I've seen.


I'm still not understanding why stuffing the tires inside a drum is advantageous from a noise reduction standpoint.

Maybe you put them in a drum so you don't have to attach each tire to the next one?

That is, because they are in a drum they don't have sound leaking out in between each tire "intersection"? I was planning on bolting/screwing each adjacent tire.
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 3:45:57 PM EST
the local gun range has one that is 15 yrds long on the indoor rifle range. It helps some with noise
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 4:01:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By silascobb:

Originally Posted By Kuraki:
[SNIP] tires inside a drum is the most common type I've seen.


I'm still not understanding why stuffing the tires inside a drum is advantageous from a noise reduction standpoint.

Maybe you put them in a drum so you don't have to attach each tire to the next one?

That is, because they are in a drum they don't have sound leaking out in between each tire "intersection"? I was planning on bolting/screwing each adjacent tire.


There are many ways to go about it. Tires in a drum is the most common I've seen not because it's the most sound reduction (it may be, I don't know) but because it's one of the easiest ways of doing it.

Drums are common, and you only need to build 1 stand for the drum, instead of multiple stands for multiple tires.

It doesn't work like a suppressor, where baffles bleed off gases allowing them to cool and expand before exiting the can, it works more like sound dampening curtain where sound waves are absorbed by the tires. That's why filling them with foam may help, provided it's soft enough foam. Or why some people use carpet remnants.

Anything that's open ended enough for you to shoot through and lined with sound absorbing material will work.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 3:49:18 PM EST
Thanks everybody for the info.

I've gathered up the tires, cleaned 'em out and drilled holes for the bottoms. Now the fun of building a stand for them and attaching them together begins.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 4:01:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By silascobb:
Thanks everybody for the info.

I've gathered up the tires, cleaned 'em out and drilled holes for the bottoms. Now the fun of building a stand for them and attaching them together begins.


Where did you get the tires from? I need a bunch of tires for another gun related project. I was just going to go to a tire shop and ask for them. I have been told that was not a problem but I know some states (perhaps Federal) have laws on recycling tires so who knows.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 7:41:14 PM EST
Tires are easy to find because it costs money to dispose of them. Call the tire shop, and ask if you can have some of their unrepairable or worn out tires. You don't care if they have a gash in the sidewall.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 6:12:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/16/2008 6:22:38 AM EST by silascobb]

Originally Posted By matthew:
Where did you get the tires from? I need a bunch of tires for another gun related project. I was just going to go to a tire shop and ask for them. I have been told that was not a problem but I know some states (perhaps Federal) have laws on recycling tires so who knows.


I'm in kind-of a unique situation. I've living in the Caribbean at the moment, and here instead of a usual trash pickup you instead take your garbage to "the dump," whichever one is closest.

Anyway, "garbage" down here includes used tires, so there is probably a thousand of them there. I think they (Public Works) gets a shipping container ever so often and sends em off for recycling or whatever. That and, some assholes on island are too lazy to take them even to the dump so they just throw them into the bush or a ravine (which is where I got a half-dozen).

If I was up in the States, I'd try a tire shop, yeah, they usually just stack up the used ones somewhere until they can dispose of them.

Here's some pics for the helluva it. I've only screwed two of the tires together. Oh, and pay no attention to the red circled thingy, it's just a way for me to keep the fender washers handy.



Link Posted: 7/16/2008 1:14:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Tires are easy to find because it costs money to dispose of them. Call the tire shop, and ask if you can have some of their unrepairable or worn out tires. You don't care if they have a gash in the sidewall.


Cool, I thought that might be the case. I am going to build a berm of tires as the backstop for my 22LR range. If the tires do not work I can cover them with dirt.
Link Posted: 8/12/2008 9:46:47 AM EST
Hummmm, so if I was to shoot my compensated 308 and wanted the sound dampened, I would put the muzzle inside the tire tube, 1-2 tires in?
Link Posted: 8/12/2008 10:00:41 AM EST
Update is in order, I guess. I meant to take pictures, but haven't had a chance yet.

I set my setup on sawhorses just to test it out. I was shooting pistol, 9mm and all I had unfortunately was 124 grain which is supersonic. Only shot 2 rounds to see what the sound signature was like.

Definitely need ear pro as up close you probably get MORE noise because the sound reverberates in the tires and becomes a higher pitch, kind of like when you drop a book in an enclosed space.

I then put the pistol on a rest and pulled the trigger using a string from about 50 feet away so I could get a better sense of the sound as it echoed in the valley. It's still pretty damn loud. I've got to try a subsonic load next.
Link Posted: 8/12/2008 10:03:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By MT-Borg:
Hummmm, so if I was to shoot my compensated 308 and wanted the sound dampened, I would put the muzzle inside the tire tube, 1-2 tires in?


Yes, I believe that is the idea. However, as I allude to, with supersonic ammo it really isn't going to make THAT much of a dent in the sound output because you are still going to have the supersonic crack caused by the bullet itself, nowhere near the muzzle.

Of course a subsonic load for pistol caliber rounds is easily accomplished, but not so with centerfire rifle. If you loaded your own ammo you could reduce the powder charge, but then your gun would not cycle.

It'd be interesting to have a decibel meter and actually test how much it reduces the sound if any.
Link Posted: 8/12/2008 4:05:28 PM EST
The concept isn't to directly reduce the sound that you the shooter perceive. It's more for the neighbors down the way.
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 6:44:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kuraki:
The concept isn't to directly reduce the sound that you the shooter perceive. It's more for the neighbors down the way.


+1

If you can get the sound that's leaving the property down to around the level of something like .22 rimfire (or so), you can be pretty sure your neighbors down the road won't have anything to complain about.
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