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Posted: 10/21/2016 8:20:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2016 8:24:15 PM EDT by JRCmx]
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Looks cool and I may consider a .45 Hi-Point pistol and companion Bullpup.

Hello Beretta. BX4 maybe?
Link Posted: 10/21/2016 8:43:32 PM EDT
Not bad. The Hi Point Carbine I owned several years ago was surprisingly dependable and accurate.
Link Posted: 10/21/2016 11:51:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2016 11:52:56 PM EDT by tommytomaso]
Man....what's up with deigners...its like they only get paid to design a product in 10 mim and they realy need 20...... they should of made a connection from the bottom of them mag to the bottom of the butt stock.....that design plane should of continued to the pistol grip where the pistol gaurd would continue that plane. Instead we have a conjunted design.
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 4:48:18 PM EDT
Of all the guns to build around, they choose a Hi Point. The one HP carbine I have experience with was complete garbage. Plus the mag thing.

No thanks.
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 6:28:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2016 6:30:29 PM EDT by Manticore_Arms]
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 6:48:22 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Jack_Flag:
Of all the guns to build around, they choose a Hi Point. The one HP carbine I have experience with was complete garbage. Plus the mag thing.

No thanks.
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Right there with you, I have messed with a HP carbine for years the mags were total crap, had a few parts break and that said they do absolutely back their product.

It messed with me one last time about a month ago, walked it down and disassembled it with my AR. Would not even give it away let alone sell it to someone.

A 223 will blow right thru the barrel from a side shot
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 8:44:37 PM EDT

You can polish a turd all day but in the end
....it's still a turd.
Link Posted: 10/23/2016 10:40:47 AM EDT
Hi Point? Ugh, no thanks.
Link Posted: 10/23/2016 11:06:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/23/2016 4:42:47 PM EDT
I must have lucked out and gotten a good one. It was dependable and accurate. The only thing wrong with the one I purchased was the ugly factor. This new kit fixes that. I kinda regret selling it now.

Link Posted: 10/23/2016 5:03:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jack_Flag:
Of all the guns to build around, they choose a Hi Point. The one HP carbine I have experience with was complete garbage. Plus the mag thing.

No thanks.
View Quote



QFT


Why a high point?????

Hell take the CZ evo (scorpion), Beretta CX4 storm, marlin camp gun (even if it is discontinued), even something like the Roni but a bullpup using a glock or SW M&P, Kel Tec, anything but the hi-point

Link Posted: 10/24/2016 12:57:50 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms:




FYI just looking at the screenshots and based on my professional experience designing there is probably 70-100 hours of design time in that product at the stage you see,

I think you are confusing personal taste with function- what you suggest adding would not add any function. I like the way it looks and I personally think your vision of it what make it look like a big, fat plastic tuna ala FS2000.

There are a few minor things I would personally change if I was designing it, but overall I would say it is pretty close to the mark of a "sexy" design- certainly better than the OEM hipoint stock!

But that is the thing about design- after you conquer functionality, you try to please as many people as possible with good aesthetics, but there is always going to be someone who doesn't care for your final vision.

Sven
Manticore Arms
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Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms:
Originally Posted By tommytomaso:
Man....what's up with deigners...its like they only get paid to design a product in 10 mim and they realy need 20...... they should of made a connection from the bottom of them mag to the bottom of the butt stock.....that design plane should of continued to the pistol grip where the pistol gaurd would continue that plane. Instead we have a conjunted design.




FYI just looking at the screenshots and based on my professional experience designing there is probably 70-100 hours of design time in that product at the stage you see,

I think you are confusing personal taste with function- what you suggest adding would not add any function. I like the way it looks and I personally think your vision of it what make it look like a big, fat plastic tuna ala FS2000.

There are a few minor things I would personally change if I was designing it, but overall I would say it is pretty close to the mark of a "sexy" design- certainly better than the OEM hipoint stock!

But that is the thing about design- after you conquer functionality, you try to please as many people as possible with good aesthetics, but there is always going to be someone who doesn't care for your final vision.

Sven
Manticore Arms
Over all your spot on...thing is 70 to 100 hrs...for mechanical and aesthetics....so 2 weeks for design and testing? Or just on how it looks? Because for an all new product that's pretty short time......and if I was exaggerating I might say 10min.

Thing is very few products sell on just thier ergonomics. ....hence why the FS2000 may have flopped like a dead fish....even though the FS2000 in the hands is pretty damn sweet.
.....this design is damn good looking for a highpoint but it's missing something ...most importantly is the magazine shroud is horrible for quick reloads because if you miss just by a tad you overshoot, pistol mags are much smaller then 5.56 mags ....my design addition would allow for larger mag well, and clean up the lines.
25yrs designing consumer products ......sometimes I'm right sometimes I'm not.


Link Posted: 10/24/2016 8:24:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2016 8:29:33 PM EDT by forever4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RevMetric:
I must have lucked out and gotten a good one. It was dependable and accurate. The only thing wrong with the one I purchased was the ugly factor. This new kit fixes that. I kinda regret selling it now.

View Quote


I picked up a 995 when they first came out back in the 1990's. I didn't know if I wanted a PCC or not and at the time it was a very low cost way for me to find out. (I paid like $150 for one back then). That rifle was UGLY! But amazingly enough it was accurate and it was stone reliable. The company stands behind these rifles and frankly they are pretty well known for being drama free. The were designed at a time when Clinton decided no one needed anything bigger than ten rounds so we got stuck with that mag choice. I moved on and collected PCC's after that even selling my Gen 1 995. A few years ago they came out with the "TS" model and as a lock shop had them on sale for just over $200 I got another just for old time's sake. I don't shoot it much as its one of a collection of more than a few PCC's. That said, I keep it in the safe for a rainy day.

Well, its day seems to have come. High Tower is working on this lovely conversion kit to make it cool. Some ask why make such a nice kit for a lowly Hi-Point. Well its quite simple. 1) The Hi-Point is reliable but a big homely as they say. 2) There are oh-so-many Hi-Points out there and they are begging for something to make them attractive and cool. Its a simple marketing decision. Big pool of potential buyers and a source firearm that is cheap and reliable. The numbers add up, do the math. For every Beretta CX-4 Storm sold there are a hundred or more Hi-Polints. And, as the Hi-Point is a cheap entry point you can buy one for a little money and upgrade it with this kit and still have a very small total investment. $500 or so will get you a complete cool Bull Pump PCC. Or, you can drop two grand on a Tavor...its your money, how much is that range toy worth to you?

Finally there is the matter of engineering. The CX-4 would be very difficult to use for this conversion due to the way it is constructed. Sure, it could be done but it would require special tools and a very complex (expensive) stock. The construction of the Hi-Point is such that it can be more readily dropped into another stock. Some will recall the ATI stock made some time back that made the Hi-Point look like a Beretta CX-4. ATI made them for a few years before dropping them. I have seen some on eBay at some ridiculous prices but the are no longer made or listed by ATI. I am surprised if Beretta didn't go after them for being such a blatant rip off of their CX-4 design.

So, all things considered I can see why HIgh Tower picked the 995 for a base. Loads of them out there, priced low enough for most anyone to afford and not too difficult to use in a conversion. From a business and technical point of view...a good choice. I have my name on the list, do you?
Link Posted: 10/24/2016 10:53:34 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tommytomaso:
Over all your spot on...thing is 70 to 100 hrs...for mechanical and aesthetics....so 2 weeks for design and testing? Or just on how it looks? Because for an all new product that's pretty short time......and if I was exaggerating I might say 10min.

Thing is very few products sell on just thier ergonomics. ....hence why the FS2000 may have flopped like a dead fish....even though the FS2000 in the hands is pretty damn sweet.
.....this design is damn good looking for a highpoint but it's missing something ...most importantly is the magazine shroud is horrible for quick reloads because if you miss just by a tad you overshoot, pistol mags are much smaller then 5.56 mags ....my design addition would allow for larger mag well, and clean up the lines.
25yrs designing consumer products ......sometimes I'm right sometimes I'm not.




View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tommytomaso:
Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms:
Originally Posted By tommytomaso:
Man....what's up with deigners...its like they only get paid to design a product in 10 mim and they realy need 20...... they should of made a connection from the bottom of them mag to the bottom of the butt stock.....that design plane should of continued to the pistol grip where the pistol gaurd would continue that plane. Instead we have a conjunted design.




FYI just looking at the screenshots and based on my professional experience designing there is probably 70-100 hours of design time in that product at the stage you see,

I think you are confusing personal taste with function- what you suggest adding would not add any function. I like the way it looks and I personally think your vision of it what make it look like a big, fat plastic tuna ala FS2000.

There are a few minor things I would personally change if I was designing it, but overall I would say it is pretty close to the mark of a "sexy" design- certainly better than the OEM hipoint stock!

But that is the thing about design- after you conquer functionality, you try to please as many people as possible with good aesthetics, but there is always going to be someone who doesn't care for your final vision.

Sven
Manticore Arms
Over all your spot on...thing is 70 to 100 hrs...for mechanical and aesthetics....so 2 weeks for design and testing? Or just on how it looks? Because for an all new product that's pretty short time......and if I was exaggerating I might say 10min.

Thing is very few products sell on just thier ergonomics. ....hence why the FS2000 may have flopped like a dead fish....even though the FS2000 in the hands is pretty damn sweet.
.....this design is damn good looking for a highpoint but it's missing something ...most importantly is the magazine shroud is horrible for quick reloads because if you miss just by a tad you overshoot, pistol mags are much smaller then 5.56 mags ....my design addition would allow for larger mag well, and clean up the lines.
25yrs designing consumer products ......sometimes I'm right sometimes I'm not.







I have to respectfully disagree. Most all of my firearms (pistols, rifles, and shotguns) I bought and shoot because they have great ergonomics (in addition to being accurate and reliable). However, I had an FS2000 and that adjective "Tuna" is a very good description of the FS2000. It felt like holding on to a midsize tuna. I felt like I was in a David Cronenberg movie like "Existenz" when I handled that FS2000. And it was not a very good feel to me. It's ergonomics sucked. Like using one of those organic pistols from "Existenz" made from some kind of living creature, in this case a tuna fish. I like the much better ergonomics of the Steyr Aug which is a lot more streamlined than the FS2000. The last straw for me that prompted me to sell off that FS 2000 was the magazine well would jam MagPul magazines up in the magwell because of the tight fit made to accept only smooth magazines to prevent the introduction of dirt into the magwell.
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