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Posted: 7/23/2013 4:12:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2013 4:12:42 AM EST by sdeshazo]
Ok I've broken two sizing rods over the weekend & now I'm dead in the water until I get new ones in. I've reloaded for over 10 years but recently got into 2 gun & now reload 1000s of .223 at a time. I thought I was being smart & speeding up my process with just spraying the cases before full length sizing them with RCBS Case Slick, I would spray them while in the loading tray.
Well after my 2nd stuck case where using the RCBS stuck case remover I broke both sizing rods right at the button, but did get the case out.

I did get a coupe thousand rounds done for my 2nd stuck case.

So 1st question what do you guys that load lots of .223 use to lube your cases before sizing? I hate to go back to a pad but I guess I'm going to have to.
2nd question is should I be breaking my sizing rods, seems like the nut that is used to remove the sizing rod just breaks the rod right at the button making it useless as well. I'm I doing somthing wrong?

I'm using a Dillion 550b if that matters.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 4:37:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2013 4:37:54 AM EST by steve4102]
Never been a fan of the spray lubes. But, If I were to go back to them I would use the Dillon spray lube and follow the directions to a tee

You could also give the RCBS Lube Die a try if you have an extra station on your progressive.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 4:40:00 AM EST
case lube for cheap bastards

(unfortunately the OP removed his pictures, but the directions are there)
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 4:40:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By sdeshazo:
Ok I've broken two sizing rods over the weekend & now I'm dead in the water until I get new ones in. I've reloaded for over 10 years but recently got into 2 gun & now reload 1000s of .223 at a time. I thought I was being smart & speeding up my process with just spraying the cases before full length sizing them with RCBS Case Slick, I would spray them while in the loading tray.
Well after my 2nd stuck case where using the RCBS stuck case remover I broke both sizing rods right at the button, but did get the case out.

I did get a coupe thousand rounds done for my 2nd stuck case.

So 1st question what do you guys that load lots of .223 use to lube your cases before sizing? I hate to go back to a pad but I guess I'm going to have to.
2nd question is should I be breaking my sizing rods, seems like the nut that is used to remove the sizing rod just breaks the rod right at the button making it useless as well. I'm I doing somthing wrong?

I'm using a Dillion 550b if that matters.
View Quote


Sir, perhaps I could write a book answering your question, but I'll try to keep it simple. FWIW I also have a Dillon 550 as well as a 650 and a couple of single stage presses. I normally reload about 500 223 Rem. cases at a time and usually have about 2K loaded rounds on hand at any given time.

That said, keep in mind for bottleneck rifle cases some lube inside the neck is helpful to facilitate the passage of the expander ball in and out. A carbide expander ball is helpful but not a total solution to the problem. Lube and a carbide expander ball reduce the probability of stretching the resized case when the expander ball is withdrawn from the interior of the case. You can find my description of the lubing process in the archived pages at the end of the forum. I've tried all manner of spray lubes and generally concluded that standing each case on end and spraying them en masse to ensure some lube on the inside of the case neck is a pain. Also keep in mind that bottleneck rifle cases have to be trimmed if they're overlength after sizing. With the 550 after resizing on the first stage charging is done at the second stage and it is advisable to ensure your cases are not overlength and case lube has been removed from the case neck interior before charging and seating.

For those reasons I do all case prep on a single stage press. I use Imperial sizing wax and scrape a bit across the case neck before putting it into the shell holder. After sizing I trim all cases and then into a tumbler to remove all lube, case neck interior included. Once finished in the tumbler I reprime each case by hand to ensure some primer precompression. The resized, primed, and trimmed cases go into stage one of my Dillon press where I use a case neck expander mandrel to insure the case neck ID is concentric and sized for proper neck tension. The rest I'm sure you already know. FWIW I'm not a fan of the Dillon PM for long grain extruded rifle powders so I use a Redding 3BR at the second stage of my 550 and cycle it by hand for each cartridge. HTH, 7zero1.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 4:59:04 AM EST
DCL, Dillon Case Lube...

I've never broken any part or had a stuck case in maybe 15 years and maybe 75 thousand plus rounds.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 5:01:26 AM EST
Thanks guys, I've not tried the Spray Dillion Case Lube but think I'm going to order some today.

Link Posted: 7/23/2013 5:10:06 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sdeshazo:
Thanks guys, I've not tried the Spray Dillion Case Lube but think I'm going to order some today.

View Quote


Seriously.... That is a RED ALERT at my house.. when I'm about out of DCL.

You're going to kick yourself in the nuts when you see how easy life would have been.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 5:19:52 AM EST
The best and most economical spray lube I have found is from the supermarket and is household Canola oil for cooking. It is a vegetable oil that is thin and leaves less lube dents than other sprays. Spray on, run your hands through a bucket of cases and go. About every 200 cases i spray a brake cleaner into the die body to flush carbon residue. Then be very sure to hand lube the next three cases fully... and off you go for another few hundred rounds.

Note I only use a single stage press, but agree with other comments about inside the neck lubing as well, your ammunition will be more uniform and accurate.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 5:38:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2013 5:38:35 AM EST by doubleshot00]
I tried Hornady spray lube for the first time and love it. It costs more but is way easier to lube. I stick 50 cases in a MTM loading tray and spray each side in a 45 degree angle. Works great for me I reloaded 500 rounds a couple of weeks ago with ease.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 5:50:36 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By doubleshot00:
I tried Hornady spray lube for the first time and love it. It costs more but is way easier to lube. I stick 50 cases in a MTM loading tray and spray each side in a 45 degree angle. Works great for me I reloaded 500 rounds a couple of weeks ago with ease.
View Quote


That's how I do it too. Everyone complains about it around here, but if you read the back of the can and follow the instructions it works great.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 5:51:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2013 5:53:56 AM EST by DET1ROGERS]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


About every 200 cases i spray a brake cleaner into the die body to flush carbon residue.
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About every 200 cases i spray a brake cleaner into the die body to flush carbon residue.


decapping before tumble will eliminate that mess.


Note I only use a single stage press, but agree with other comments about inside the neck lubing as well, your ammunition will be more uniform and accurate.


If a shooter wants uniform an accurate ammo, he should ditch the expander ball instead of working around it with inside case neck lube. I don't even load blaster ammo with an expander ball type set up.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 6:18:51 AM EST
I use RCBS spray lube (Case Slick), as well, and haven't stuck a case with it yet. My technique consists of the following:

- Dump two to three handfuls of cases into an Akro bin, so that they all lay flat in the bin, single-layer
- Spritz case lube over them, about 4-5 pumps.
- Shake the bin to roll the cases around
- Dump them into case feeder hopper
- Repeat 3 to 4 times, not overloading the case feeder

While they tumble around in the case feeder, the lube gets even more distributed. Every once in a great while, I will feel a case getting pretty tight in the sizing die. At that point, I back it out, and run it up again. 99% of the time, that takes care of it. And that's the important part: feel how the case is going in to the sizing die, and know when too much force is too much. When you feel that, stop - don't try and muscle through it, because that's when the case will stick.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 6:43:57 AM EST
I just got a 650 so i haven't done alot of high speed reloading. Not to long ago on my single stage i keep sticking 223 with one shot. I was doing everthing like normalbut one after another would get stuck. I took my sizer apart and had brass streaks inside the die. I got a rod and steel wool on a drill and cleaned it up and havent had a problem yet. Might be worth cheaking out.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 6:47:35 AM EST
I use Dillon and RCBS spray lube without much trouble. A bit of a departure but one thing I do have at all times, is a set up and ready to go spare sizing die when bulk loading. Having to stop 400 rounds in to a 2000 round session pisses me off to no end. If I break a pin or (rarely) get a stuck case I just pull the "bad" die and drop the new one in and keeping going.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 6:59:26 AM EST
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Originally Posted By sdeshazo:
Thanks guys, I've not tried the Spray Dillion Case Lube but think I'm going to order some today.

View Quote


You wont regret it. I place a few hundred in a gallon bag or box and apply 2-3 squirts, shake, and repeat.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 11:48:33 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DET1ROGERS:

If a shooter wants uniform an accurate ammo, he should ditch the expander ball instead of working around it with inside case neck lube. I don't even load blaster ammo with an expander ball type set up.
View Quote


So you just remove the expander ball completely and size without it? Sorry if this has already been addressed somewhere else, but I'm interested in possibly doing the same and am wondering what negative impacts this might bring.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 12:09:05 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By silentrebellion:
So you just remove the expander ball completely and size without it? Sorry if this has already been addressed somewhere else, but I'm interested in possibly doing the same and am wondering what negative impacts this might bring.
View Quote


Not quite that simple... but WELL WORTH the effort in the long run... especially if you don't like case trimming... (and who does?)

I never even knew this was a problem when I was starting out... but the expander both gives case neck runout (usually) and stretches the brass. I always though the shooting was the cause of most stretch, but not so much.

Take the expander out, and run a neck expander die after sizing. I use RCBS... you should see dramatic improvements.

You can just seat bullets without the expander, but you'll get a lot of neck tension, and shave jackets in the case mouth. I know a guy who took his die and had it opend up at the neck area so he didn't have to run the expander at all... but I'm happy just running an extra step, because the results are worth it.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:09:20 PM EST
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Originally Posted By John87:
case lube for cheap bastards

(unfortunately the OP removed his pictures, but the directions are there)
View Quote
I switched to this after using One Stuck, and have had zero issues.

That said, I generally decap, wet tumble for an hour, FL resize, then tumble to bling status before loading. Trim after FL resize if necessary. Adds a couple of extra steps, but I have had a much easier time reloading on a progressive this way. YMMV.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:48:43 PM EST
RCBS case slick is great, loaded 1000 of rounds in the progressive as well as single stage with the case slick. The best way to use it is to put cases into a zip lock bag, shake the lube bottle, shake the lube bottle some more, spray the cases then shake the brass around inside the bag. I spray the brass a couple shots then both sides of the bag before I shake it. If I have 500 or more cases in the bag I will give them a second shot. I often have 500 plus 223 brass in a 12x12 zip lock type bag I use. Make sure you shake the bottle of lube very well to get it mixed up well. I got rid of the lube pad and I use case slick for everything including larger calibers like 308 and 7mm Rem mag.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 3:58:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ARsR4ME:
I just got a 650 so i haven't done alot of high speed reloading. Not to long ago on my single stage i keep sticking 223 with one shot. I was doing everthing like normalbut one after another would get stuck. I took my sizer apart and had brass streaks inside the die. I got a rod and steel wool on a drill and cleaned it up and havent had a problem yet. Might be worth cheaking out.
View Quote


+1

If you are running thousands of cases through your die at a time, check the sizing die for galling.
Link Posted: 7/23/2013 4:14:29 PM EST
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Originally Posted By BroadSideOfADime:


+1

If you are running thousands of cases through your die at a time, check the sizing die for galling.
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Originally Posted By BroadSideOfADime:
Originally Posted By ARsR4ME:
I just got a 650 so i haven't done alot of high speed reloading. Not to long ago on my single stage i keep sticking 223 with one shot. I was doing everthing like normalbut one after another would get stuck. I took my sizer apart and had brass streaks inside the die. I got a rod and steel wool on a drill and cleaned it up and havent had a problem yet. Might be worth cheaking out.


+1

If you are running thousands of cases through your die at a time, check the sizing die for galling.


+2

Had this happen, scratched up a hundred rounds or so before I noticed. Used a Bic Pen, 600grit wet sand paper and a screw gun. Spin for just a few seconds and your done. Only things I had around the house that I could think of. Used it ever since.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 12:06:14 AM EST
I will get 100 cases and lay primer pocket side to case neck side bu side for 25 cases on a paper towel. I the. Spray frankford arsenals case lube on the brass. I then roll te cases with the palm of my hand, being sure to get the case necks real good. I wait 5-10 minutes and load my care feeder, reload for a while do it again, load the case feeder, etc...point is to get the case neck real well. I use te frankford arsenal spray lube for progressive and hornady one shot for single stage. I hope i have been a help.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 3:34:15 AM EST
If you are loading that much make your own. The bootleg case lube

is the same thing as Dillon, but far cheaper. It is also VERY easy to

make, and you can adjust the ratio of lanolin lube to iso if you desire.


Link Posted: 7/24/2013 4:29:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2013 4:32:02 AM EST by SteelonSteel]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DET1ROGERS:


Not quite that simple... but WELL WORTH the effort in the long run... especially if you don't like case trimming... (and who does?)

I never even knew this was a problem when I was starting out... but the expander both gives case neck runout (usually) and stretches the brass. I always though the shooting was the cause of most stretch, but not so much.

Take the expander out, and run a neck expander die after sizing. I use RCBS... you should see dramatic improvements.

You can just seat bullets without the expander, but you'll get a lot of neck tension, and shave jackets in the case mouth. I know a guy who took his die and had it opend up at the neck area so he didn't have to run the expander at all... but I'm happy just running an extra step, because the results are worth it.
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Originally Posted By DET1ROGERS:
Originally Posted By silentrebellion:
So you just remove the expander ball completely and size without it? Sorry if this has already been addressed somewhere else, but I'm interested in possibly doing the same and am wondering what negative impacts this might bring.


Not quite that simple... but WELL WORTH the effort in the long run... especially if you don't like case trimming... (and who does?)

I never even knew this was a problem when I was starting out... but the expander both gives case neck runout (usually) and stretches the brass. I always though the shooting was the cause of most stretch, but not so much.

Take the expander out, and run a neck expander die after sizing. I use RCBS... you should see dramatic improvements.

You can just seat bullets without the expander, but you'll get a lot of neck tension, and shave jackets in the case mouth. I know a guy who took his die and had it opend up at the neck area so he didn't have to run the expander at all... but I'm happy just running an extra step, because the results are worth it.



My RCBS 223 die is too tight to just remove the expander and load. (I think I was getting inner dia of 0.213ish which is way too much squeeze) Opening it up is a logical step but then you're not as flexible in what brass you can use due to neck wall thickness variance. RCBS over squeezes the brass neck and then pops it back out to proper inner diameter with the expander. Frankly if I was going to go expanderless (and I have done so for my precision stuff) I would use a bushing die and be flexible with a bushing size swap.

Also for expanderless, you really shouldn't be using bulk mixed brass. That's an invitation to disaster if you load some with really loose neck tension and stuff a bullet deep in the case while chambering. Or the opposite, chamber a round and extract it w.o firing and leaving the bullet in the throat. Sure I don't see them as real likely but why play with the odds.

just food for thought
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 7:57:17 AM EST
OP....What resizing die are you using? Is it a small base die?
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