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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 12/28/2005 11:30:41 AM EDT

I am in the process of getting my first NFA item, a silencer. Now that I see how, (while annoying) simple the process is, I am thinking about a machine gun.

Price is a factor. I really really want an Uzi. I have fired one, it is relatively comfortable, easy to aim and keep on target, looks nice. But is about $8k + stamp

M11 is about $3.5k + stamp

I like the looks of the M11. I have held one but never fired it.

But can you actually aim the thing? I mean really.

It's pure fun. No doubt it can put lead downrange. But can you honestly mag dump on a refrigerator at 25 yards and hit it with most of the mag? Or is it just a spray and pray?

Thanks
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 11:34:18 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 12:01:53 PM EDT
The cyclic rate is very fast compared to an uzi... maybe more like a micro uzi.

If you look hard enough, you can find uzis for less than $7k. I would recommend you stretch yourself and get a full sized uzi. Take a year or 2 to pay down the extra credit card or home equity loan, then start accessorizing it.

Macs are iffy in the reliability department compared to an uzi, and the uzi is more fun to shoot. Plus, with an Uzi, you can change calibers as long as you don't buy a bolt gun. Look for a Vector Uzi, and you should be able to pick one up for $7k or less.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 12:12:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 3:46:01 PM EDT
I put a 10" barrel with K-Grip on one of my uppers. Very nice at 25'. The slowfire conversions drop the rate down to around 600rpm - near the MP5 rate.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:36:16 PM EDT
There are a ton of accessories and cyclic rate reducers available for m11's to make them more user friendly. A few years back M11's were among the top of the pack in subgun competitions. If you want a machine gun and you can afford an m11 then BUY IT NOW! Do not try to save up for something just out of your financial reach, You will never save faster than a machinegun goes up in price.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:25:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
But can you honestly mag dump on a refrigerator at 25 yards and hit it with most of the mag?


Sure you can, but it takes practice.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:28:11 AM EDT
In stock configuration, the M11 is okay (but not great) at pistol distances. My biggest complaint was that it was nearly impossible to see the front sight over the original flat cocking knob. It was better with the U-notched Uzi style knob. Side-cocking uppers are a much better option. As others have noted, there are many options for "upgrading" the M11 to make it more shootable.

A properly set up slow-fire M11 is almost booringly easy to shoot. I have to swap parts around every so often and turn it back into a high-speed bullet hose to remind myself how much fun it is.

At the moment, I'm seeing M11s on subguns.com and sturmgewehr.com in the $2.6k to $2.8k range.

The M11 can be a very versitile sugbun with all of the options currently available. That being said, if you really want an Uzi, find a way to scrape the money together for one. There are not as many aftermarket options available, but that is because they are not necessary. The Uzi is a great shooter right out of the box.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:33:26 AM EDT
The M11 is the weapon of choice if you fnid yourself in a firefight in a phonebooth. Just joking.

They are not inherently inaccurate. I've seen a lot of people use them in subgun matches against MP5s and the like. Of course, they generally have them accessorized.

I never had any problems putting all (okay almost all) of my rounds on target at 10 yards. It helps if you have a suppressor (greater weight up front and something to hold on to if you have Nomex cover) or a K-grip to help hold the muzzle down.

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:57:24 PM EDT
Probably not as accurate as you'd like, but I can keep a mag dump on a 55 gal drum at 15 yds with a stock M11. (Fortunately, you only have to hold on target for a couple seconds )
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:35:58 AM EDT
Looking at all the acessories avaliable. The facy I can get a longer barrel, a bigger stock, and reduce the fire rate. The M11 looks like a real posability for me.

Thanks for the info guys!
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:16:40 AM EDT
I got a Lage MAX-11 Slowfire Upper for my M11/9. Longer barrel, slower cyclic rate, better sights and optics rail all in one package.

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:34:30 AM EDT
How long was your wait for the Lage upper? I've heard of guys reserving one in Feb, and just getting it now.

MJohn, the M11 is next to the M16 as far as accesories/mods go.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:59:59 AM EDT
M10/45
You should be able to find an M11 for about the same. I wouldn't go more thatn 6k for an Uzi, if you are patient and have cash maybe 5.5k, 5 for a bolt.
Don't forget Stemples. Less thatn 5k NIB
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 7:06:10 PM EDT
Patience usually does not net you a better price on a machinegun.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:46:19 PM EDT
As far as accuracy goes:

On straight semi it is more accurate than my PPK at 10 paces (≈25-30 feet).

On Rock & Roll, I normally get groups about the size of basketballs at 10 yards. I’m trying for 3-5 round bursts here.
Mag Dumps are completely different, of course. While fun accuracy goes out the window.

But buy the MAC. It is a fun little buzz gun.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 6:51:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 6:52:51 PM EDT by SBR7_11]
As Garrett said; "A properly set up slow-fire M11 is almost booringly easy to shoot. I have to swap parts around every so often and turn it back into a high-speed bullet hose to remind myself how much fun it is."


I can sit there all day long and single shot plates with mine (slowfire), I was getting bored in the first box full of plates, and had a number of shoot positions to go between the 2 courses to fire.. only 1 position in each course had "hold the trigger" time.

I too just swap to the std M11 bolt and fire fast sometime to show off.



Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:59:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 5:59:52 PM EDT by ATLGA]
How do they handle +P+ ammo? Do any NFA critical parts wear out?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:16:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ATLGA:
How do they handle +P+ ammo? Do any NFA critical parts wear out?



DON'T think about +P or +P+ in a M11/9, the barrel is paper thin inside the upper, typically .520", and a very sloppy chamber, and the barrel material is not generally the best.

Stick to std SAMMI ammo for the M11/9, or else get a real barrel made.

As to the NFA critical parts to wear out , the only NFA part is the frame with the serial #, and it just holds the mag, the trigger group, and the upper in place.... any real wear will be inside the upper, but the barrels, bolts, sears is the wear items here.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:24:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SBR7_11:
DON'T think about +P or +P+ in a M11/9, the barrel is paper thin inside the upper, typically .520", and a very sloppy chamber, and the barrel material is not generally the best.



I've used +p+ exclisively in my M10/9 OBS, as recommended by arfcommers when i purchased the ammo. Never had one problem, but YMMV.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:06:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
I've used +p+ exclisively in my M10/9 OBS, as recommended by arfcommers when i purchased the ammo. Never had one problem, but YMMV.


There's a big difference in the amount of metal in a M11/9 barrel vs. that of a MAC10/9. The MAC10 has a much heavier barrel.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 12:24:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
I am in the process of getting my first NFA item, a silencer. Now that I see how, (while annoying) simple the process is, I am thinking about a machine gun.

Price is a factor. I really really want an Uzi. I have fired one, it is relatively comfortable, easy to aim and keep on target, looks nice. But is about $8k + stamp

M11 is about $3.5k + stamp

I like the looks of the M11. I have held one but never fired it.

But can you actually aim the thing? I mean really.

It's pure fun. No doubt it can put lead downrange. But can you honestly mag dump on a refrigerator at 25 yards and hit it with most of the mag? Or is it just a spray and pray?

Thanks



Do you want to shoot mine at shooters paradise sometime?
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 1:12:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LHD:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
I am in the process of getting my first NFA item, a silencer. Now that I see how, (while annoying) simple the process is, I am thinking about a machine gun.

Price is a factor. I really really want an Uzi. I have fired one, it is relatively comfortable, easy to aim and keep on target, looks nice. But is about $8k + stamp

M11 is about $3.5k + stamp

I like the looks of the M11. I have held one but never fired it.

But can you actually aim the thing? I mean really.

It's pure fun. No doubt it can put lead downrange. But can you honestly mag dump on a refrigerator at 25 yards and hit it with most of the mag? Or is it just a spray and pray?

Thanks



Do you want to shoot mine at shooters paradise sometime?



Let me think

Oh heck no! Guns are icky. Expecially full auto ones HECK YEAH!!!

Drop me a line next time you are planning on going. I'll bring some ammo. Can I bring another ARFCOMer?
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 1:18:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By LHD:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
I am in the process of getting my first NFA item, a silencer. Now that I see how, (while annoying) simple the process is, I am thinking about a machine gun.

Price is a factor. I really really want an Uzi. I have fired one, it is relatively comfortable, easy to aim and keep on target, looks nice. But is about $8k + stamp

M11 is about $3.5k + stamp

I like the looks of the M11. I have held one but never fired it.

But can you actually aim the thing? I mean really.

It's pure fun. No doubt it can put lead downrange. But can you honestly mag dump on a refrigerator at 25 yards and hit it with most of the mag? Or is it just a spray and pray?

Thanks



Do you want to shoot mine at shooters paradise sometime?



Let me think

Oh heck no! Guns are icky. Expecially full auto ones HECK YEAH!!!

Drop me a line next time you are planning on going. I'll bring some ammo. Can I bring another ARFCOMer?



No, I really hate talking to like minded people..

Of course man. Come on down. I dont know if you know Farrokh of innovativetactical.com but he should be getting his G18 sometime this week so we'll be fingerbanging that for a while. He'll most likely bring his micro galil postie and his colt M16/203 postie too. I hope to get my 7.62 and .45 suppressors this week some time, theyre about due. I'll bring my 9mm supressor of course too.

Maybe GotM4 will come along with his wifes (Shes 9x19 on here) M4-96D too. He bought that from farrokh too.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 1:39:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LHD:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By LHD:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
I am in the process of getting my first NFA item, a silencer. Now that I see how, (while annoying) simple the process is, I am thinking about a machine gun.

Price is a factor. I really really want an Uzi. I have fired one, it is relatively comfortable, easy to aim and keep on target, looks nice. But is about $8k + stamp

M11 is about $3.5k + stamp

I like the looks of the M11. I have held one but never fired it.

But can you actually aim the thing? I mean really.

It's pure fun. No doubt it can put lead downrange. But can you honestly mag dump on a refrigerator at 25 yards and hit it with most of the mag? Or is it just a spray and pray?

Thanks



Do you want to shoot mine at shooters paradise sometime?



Let me think

Oh heck no! Guns are icky. Expecially full auto ones HECK YEAH!!!

Drop me a line next time you are planning on going. I'll bring some ammo. Can I bring another ARFCOMer?



No, I really hate talking to like minded people..

Of course man. Come on down. I dont know if you know Farrokh of innovativetactical.com but he should be getting his G18 sometime this week so we'll be fingerbanging that for a while. He'll most likely bring his micro galil postie and his colt M16/203 postie too. I hope to get my 7.62 and .45 suppressors this week some time, theyre about due. I'll bring my 9mm supressor of course too.

Maybe GotM4 will come along with his wifes (Shes 9x19 on here) M4-96D too. He bought that from farrokh too.



Sounds great!!! Only NFA I got is a 22 silencer..and I am still waiting on the paperwork for that. So I'm not sure I can really bring anything to the party except ammo.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 2:57:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 3:03:18 AM EDT by superde]
In a word: Yes. I received my slowfire upper last week from Richard Lage and it rocks - accurate/very controllable. I shot 6 mags into about a 8" diameter hole in the chest of a humanoid target at 25 yards. 4 of the mags were dumps. In the factory setup, it was a lot more difficult to aim and control. It was more like point in the general direction and pull the trigger - still fun, but nothing compared to now.


Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:10:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 3:12:31 AM EDT by Mr45auto]
How much $$ does an upper like that run and where can I see more info on it? You just made the 11/9 alot more attractive to me.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:54:51 AM EDT
www.max-11.com

$659.00 plus shipping and insurance.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 6:37:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LHD:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By LHD:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
I am in the process of getting my first NFA item, a silencer. Now that I see how, (while annoying) simple the process is, I am thinking about a machine gun.

Price is a factor. I really really want an Uzi. I have fired one, it is relatively comfortable, easy to aim and keep on target, looks nice. But is about $8k + stamp

M11 is about $3.5k + stamp

I like the looks of the M11. I have held one but never fired it.

But can you actually aim the thing? I mean really.

It's pure fun. No doubt it can put lead downrange. But can you honestly mag dump on a refrigerator at 25 yards and hit it with most of the mag? Or is it just a spray and pray?

Thanks



Do you want to shoot mine at shooters paradise sometime?



Let me think

Oh heck no! Guns are icky. Expecially full auto ones HECK YEAH!!!

Drop me a line next time you are planning on going. I'll bring some ammo. Can I bring another ARFCOMer?



No, I really hate talking to like minded people..

Of course man. Come on down. I dont know if you know Farrokh of innovativetactical.com but he should be getting his G18 sometime this week so we'll be fingerbanging that for a while. He'll most likely bring his micro galil postie and his colt M16/203 postie too. I hope to get my 7.62 and .45 suppressors this week some time, theyre about due. I'll bring my 9mm supressor of course too.

Maybe GotM4 will come along with his wifes (Shes 9x19 on here) M4-96D too. He bought that from farrokh too.



Have you guys gone yet? If not let me know when you are zipping down there. I'll bring a few toys also. I need to get my M11 working properly. Right now it jams alot but that is due to the crappy mags I have. I need to buy some new zytel mags.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 10:19:02 AM EDT
My M11/9 is an easy gun to shoot with a few mods. Get an ar type stock on there and some sort of front grip. I can dump a mag and keep it all on a TQ-19 easily. I have a side cocking upper with an aimpoint on it. Easy to hit with.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:59:13 AM EDT
i think im going shopping.. that thing IS cool (max11)...
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 10:42:16 PM EDT
Are there any good places to buy mags at? Anyone use mag conversions?
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:02:21 AM EDT
I use the $8.99 30 round mags from CDNN that are some kind of South American grease gun mag. You have to modify your mag catch to make them work (lower the shelf on the mag release or they will sit too high in the gun), but once you do they run like a champ. I've got 18 30's and had 2 turned into one 55 rounder by a guy who goes by Bustoff on subguns.

www.cdnninvestments.com/cobray.html
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:17:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By superde:
www.max-11.com

$659.00 plus shipping and insurance.



I hear there is a 8 week waiting list. I'm on it and can hardly wait.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:08:52 PM EDT
8 weeks? More like 8 months.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 2:53:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MisterPX:
8 weeks? More like 8 months.



I waited for about 8 months. But that was when he only had a prototype. He's putting out the slowfire Max-11's now in lots of 5 I believe. But, he is a 1 man operation with another job as well FWIW. It is still worth the wait :).
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:10:27 PM EDT
sure I can hit the broad side of a barn with my M-11, as long as the barn is close.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:14:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NFAman:
sure I can hit the broad side of a barn with my M-11, as long as the barn is close.



LOL.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:07:55 PM EDT
Little side track, paste this, http://www.subguns.com/boards/mgmsg.cgi?read=521548, M11 in 40 S&W...
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