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Posted: 10/24/2006 7:08:11 AM EST
I've decided that I want a .22lr rifle for training. I will not be plinking, hunting or fighting with this rifle. This rifle will have one purpose- to make me a better rifleman. I plan on using high quality ammunition, a high quality shooting sling and fine, adjustable iron sights for position shooting at 25m and 50m. I will basically be shooting a smallbore competition against myself.

I have a few requirements that are necessary:

1. The rifle must be full sized. No youth or compact models, please.
2. The rifle must be well made and as heavy as a centerfire rifle.
3. I am left handed, so right handed bolt actions are a definate no-go.
4. The Ruger 10/22 is an absolute no-go.
5. 5 round capacity. 10 rounders are fine if they dont stick out too far. Hi-caps are unnecessary.

I don't know a lot about .22s, but reading and shopping around has given me a few ideas. First, the CZ-452

This model is available left handed. I don't know how good the sights are, but CZ rifles are notoriously well made and accurate. I'm not crazy about beechwood, but it will do. Are replacement sights available? Does anyone here recommend a CZ .22?

Next, the AR-15. I have a good AR, so a dedicated upper is all I need. I have used kits like the Ciener and M-261 and I was not impressed. I have not used uppers from DPMS or Fulton Armory, etc. so I don't know how reliable or accurate they are. I also don't know which operating systems and barrels are considered to be the best. Does anyone here run a dedicate .22 upper? Which would you recommend?

Lastly, i have looked at several offerings from AnschutzAnschutz and izhmash, but I'm afraid these may be too specialized and expensive for my purposes. I want a rifle that makes me better at shooting other rifles, not necessarily one made to win an Olympic-style event.

Do you guys have any recommendations or experience you can share? I'd also like to know the popular opinions of both CZ and AR-type platforms is. Thanks for your input.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 7:37:59 AM EST
I would seriously consider the left handed model 64 MP from Anschutz. Not a full blown match gun from them, but full sized and accurate.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 9:31:49 AM EST
I vote for the CZ. They make a fine weapon.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 10:04:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By bradleyc:
I've decided that I want a .22lr rifle for training. I will not be plinking, hunting or fighting with this rifle. This rifle will have one purpose- to make me a better rifleman. I plan on using high quality ammunition, a high quality shooting sling and fine, adjustable iron sights for position shooting at 25m and 50m. I will basically be shooting a smallbore competition against myself.

I have a few requirements that are necessary:

1. The rifle must be full sized. No youth or compact models, please.
2. The rifle must be well made and as heavy as a centerfire rifle.
3. I am left handed, so right handed bolt actions are a definate no-go.
4. The Ruger 10/22 is an absolute no-go.
5. 5 round capacity. 10 rounders are fine if they dont stick out too far. Hi-caps are unnecessary.

I don't know a lot about .22s, but reading and shopping around has given me a few ideas. First, the CZ-452

This model is available left handed. I don't know how good the sights are, but CZ rifles are notoriously well made and accurate. I'm not crazy about beechwood, but it will do. Are replacement sights available? Does anyone here recommend a CZ .22?

Next, the AR-15. I have a good AR, so a dedicated upper is all I need. I have used kits like the Ciener and M-261 and I was not impressed. I have not used uppers from DPMS or Fulton Armory, etc. so I don't know how reliable or accurate they are. I also don't know which operating systems and barrels are considered to be the best. Does anyone here run a dedicate .22 upper? Which would you recommend?

Lastly, i have looked at several offerings from AnschutzAnschutz and izhmash, but I'm afraid these may be too specialized and expensive for my purposes. I want a rifle that makes me better at shooting other rifles, not necessarily one made to win an Olympic-style event.

Do you guys have any recommendations or experience you can share? I'd also like to know the popular opinions of both CZ and AR-type platforms is. Thanks for your input.


With your requirements you're probably best served with a .22lr conversion for an AR. After that you're looking at an anschutz.

However, I may suggest rethinking what you're looking for. Marksmanship training is about the fundamentals, not necesarily the rifle or what the rifle looks like. Any .22lr rifle that has iron sights and a decent triggers will allow you to work on sight alignment, breath and trigger control.

I have a CZ 452 training rifle and it fits this bill quite nicely. It's accurate, has a good trigger and has iron sights. While I would prefer a peep sight, the mauser style tangent rear sight on the CZ452 is more than accurate with that rifle and I have no complaints with it. When I do my part it will put rounds overlapping at 50' to 25m (the longest indoor shooting range distance I have available) and does fairly well at 100m with open sights as well. Additionally, the fact that the CZ is lighter also allows me to practice offhand shooting positions longer as I don't tire as fast as when I shoot a 10+ lb rifle offhand.

The skills I practice with on that rifle haven't had a problem translating over to my M14's, M1 garands or M1903's even though the CZ is lighter and has beachwood stock. That CZ has been everything I wanted and was a good deal for $250.

One last option would be the Kimber's that the CMP is selling, however those are right hand and single shot which isn't in your criteria, but are excellent rifles and reasonably priced. Just my two cents, but good luck in your search.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 1:21:35 PM EST
Check this link for a Savage single shot. I don't know how it stacks up against the Savage-Anschutz Mark 10 that I have, but if it does and I'm sure it would--it's a great shooter! With the target sights and standard Wolf-10 shots at 25 where 1/4"

http://www.savagearms.com/markifvt.htm
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 1:36:51 PM EST
Anshultz spend the extra cash it's worth it, plus you can always sell it for the same price they don't dipericate much
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 1:39:43 PM EST
you can get brand new rifles from the CMP

remington 541X is $250 and the kimber is $450 i think.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 3:34:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
you can get brand new rifles from the CMP

remington 541X is $250 and the kimber is $450 i think.


514x is sold out (unless they have some at one of the stores)
Kimber is 600

M12 is a good buy from the CMP, but is right handed

if you need a good upper for the AR, CLE is highly recommended, but expensive


Link Posted: 10/24/2006 3:45:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By lithgow303:
With your requirements you're probably best served with a .22lr conversion for an AR. After that you're looking at an anschutz.

However, I may suggest rethinking what you're looking for. Marksmanship training is about the fundamentals, not necesarily the rifle or what the rifle looks like. Any .22lr rifle that has iron sights and a decent triggers will allow you to work on sight alignment, breath and trigger control.

I have a CZ 452 training rifle and it fits this bill quite nicely. It's accurate, has a good trigger and has iron sights. While I would prefer a peep sight, the mauser style tangent rear sight on the CZ452 is more than accurate with that rifle and I have no complaints with it. When I do my part it will put rounds overlapping at 50' to 25m (the longest indoor shooting range distance I have available) and does fairly well at 100m with open sights as well. Additionally, the fact that the CZ is lighter also allows me to practice offhand shooting positions longer as I don't tire as fast as when I shoot a 10+ lb rifle offhand.

The skills I practice with on that rifle haven't had a problem translating over to my M14's, M1 garands or M1903's even though the CZ is lighter and has beachwood stock. That CZ has been everything I wanted and was a good deal for $250.

One last option would be the Kimber's that the CMP is selling, however those are right hand and single shot which isn't in your criteria, but are excellent rifles and reasonably priced. Just my two cents, but good luck in your search.


I get what you're saying. I guess I lied a little when i said I wanted this only as a training rifle. I also want it to be beautiful and "overqualified for the position". Life is too short to shoot ugly guns.

I do a lot of AQT style shooting and NRA High Power style shooting, both with reduced targets at 50m and 100m. Currently this is eating up my wallet with 5.56mm, and I can't tolerate more than a couple hundred rounds of 8mm and 54R in one session. If I get a .22 I can fall in love with, I will be motivated to shoot it more- making my fundementals better.

I couldn't find a left handed version of the Savage recommended. If the CZ 452 FS came left handed, I'd have one.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 3:48:29 PM EST
I love my Anshutz 64. I can get dime sized groups at 50 yards hand held.
Even smaller on bags and I'm a mediocre shooter with iron sights
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 4:18:52 PM EST
I've been looking at Anschulz 64's on the auction sites, and it seems that "64" refers to an action, not a specific model number. Are there any good online resources I can use to learn about the different Annies?
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 4:36:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2006 4:38:11 PM EST by twonami]
dt
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 4:37:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By bradleyc:
I've been looking at Anschulz 64's on the auction sites, and it seems that "64" refers to an action, not a specific model number. Are there any good online resources I can use to learn about the different Annies?

rimfirecentral.com
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 5:07:39 PM EST
I bought a CZ 452 Varmint in .22lr for the same thing, save burning up loads of ammo in my 7.62, plus it's easier to find somewhere to shoot it. If I were in the US however, with much lower ammo prices, I would probably go for the same gun in .17hmr. If you get a CZ 452 of whatever model, a Brookes trigger kit is a must. But it's very cheap.

I also have a CZ/Victor Arms V22, .22lr dedicated upper for an AR15 lower. I have seen varying reports on them on this forum but I have never had any problem with mine after some 5000 rounds.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 5:22:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By bradleyc:
I've decided that I want a .22lr rifle for training. I will not be plinking, hunting or fighting with this rifle. This rifle will have one purpose- to make me a better rifleman. I plan on using high quality ammunition, a high quality shooting sling and fine, adjustable iron sights for position shooting at 25m and 50m. I will basically be shooting a smallbore competition against myself.

I have a few requirements that are necessary:

1. The rifle must be full sized. No youth or compact models, please.
2. The rifle must be well made and as heavy as a centerfire rifle.
3. I am left handed, so right handed bolt actions are a definate no-go.
4. The Ruger 10/22 is an absolute no-go.
5. 5 round capacity. 10 rounders are fine if they dont stick out too far. Hi-caps are unnecessary.

I don't know a lot about .22s, but reading and shopping around has given me a few ideas. First, the CZ-452

This model is available left handed. I don't know how good the sights are, but CZ rifles are notoriously well made and accurate. I'm not crazy about beechwood, but it will do. Are replacement sights available? Does anyone here recommend a CZ .22?
.


I have a CZ452 Varmint and I love it. It's a fantastically accurate rifle right out of the box. I have shot 10 shot groups measuring 1.25" with it at 100 yards using American Eagle ammo and I've never even bothered finding out what shoots best out of it since it seems to shoot so well with cheap ammo.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 5:23:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2006 5:24:29 PM EST by Ranger689]

Originally Posted By rlc:

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
you can get brand new rifles from the CMP

remington 541X is $250 and the kimber is $450 i think.


514x is sold out (unless they have some at one of the stores)
Kimber is 600

M12 is a good buy from the CMP, but is right handed

if you need a good upper for the AR, CLE is highly recommended, but expensive


+1 on the Compass Lake (CLE), they make great stuff.
Link Posted: 10/24/2006 5:26:47 PM EST
My cuzin has a CZ .22, not sure if there are more than one or what, but he love it, he can put 15 under a dime at 30 yards w/ iron sites, so i think that's probly pretty good.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 2:07:00 AM EST
There's an actual model 64MP--64 action, model multi purpose. I've been thinking of one for a while, then ran across the MK10
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 6:07:19 AM EST
If it were me in your postion. I'd look hard at Anschutz (or however it's spelled LOL). Note of course that premium 22RF ammo isn't gonna be much cheaper than the 22 centerfire you're using now. I have a fully tricked 10/22 that shoots great but it's not in the same class as a purpose built 22rf bolt gun for match use.

They have a wide variety of models for different purposes. from dedicated Olympic use to general shooting.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 6:30:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 8:21:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2006 8:23:12 AM EST by bradleyc]
The pic isn't showing up for me.

The varmint model is great, but does not come with iron sights. I am looking at the CZ 452 lux right now. That is one sexy rifle.



I would love the FS, but the website does not list a left handed model.



The varmint model isn't listed as left handed, either. I suppose i could call and enquire about the possibility...
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 8:23:52 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 11:44:08 AM EST
I can see it now.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 6:58:38 PM EST
i have a CZ 452 varmint, and it is wonderfully accurate. 10 shot groups fit under a dime at 50 yds (1 ragged hole). it shoots slightly over an inch at 100yds, an like someone mentioned above i have never tried other ammo to see what shoots best. remy golden bulk box is all that has ever been fired in this rifle. it would be a simple gunsmith job to have a front sight put on it, and then add a williams receiver sight for the .22lr grooved receivers ( get the one with target knobs)

having said that, if you want to do some serious marksmanship training with irons i would prob go for a custon 22lr DCM style upper. the AR platform is hard to beat for accuracy upgrades, and is the most popular service rifle now (just incase you want to measure your performance against others).
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