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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/9/2005 3:31:43 PM EDT
I'm attending Trident Concepts combative carbine 2-day class this month.
Items in inventory:
Bushmaster A2, GLOCK 19
Hatch shooter's gloves
TAG rigger's belt
BHI drop-leg holster
BHI Serpa retention holster
BHI STRIKE chest harness
--4 2-mag pouches, 2 pistol mag pouches, dump pouch
32oz. Nalgene, 2lit camelbak
First-aid kit, weapon cleaning kit, personal care kit
Eye/Ear protection

I am not military or LE, so I have a couple of questions.

1. Which holster should I use at class? I use the Serpa holster daily for concealed carry, but I would like to learn to shoot from a drop-leg.

2. Should I also wear a duty/load belt, or will the rigger's belt be stiff enough if I use the drop-leg (I'm also considering a drop-leg sub-load for mags in place of the chest harness).

3. What are the most common AR parts to fail/break during class?

4. I need comfortable knee/elbow pads. How are the Hatch pads?

5. Is there anything not on my list that I might say, "Man, I wish I would've brought that!"?

Mods: I know this also pertains to "Tactics/Training", so sorry in advance if you have to move it.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 3:50:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 3:50:55 PM EDT by Resq47]

Originally Posted By Trick:
I'm attending Trident Concepts combative carbine 2-day class this month.
Items in inventory:
Bushmaster A2, GLOCK 19
Hatch shooter's gloves
TAG rigger's belt
BHI drop-leg holster
BHI Serpa retention holster
BHI STRIKE chest harness
--4 2-mag pouches, 2 pistol mag pouches, dump pouch
32oz. Nalgene, 2lit camelbak
First-aid kit, weapon cleaning kit, personal care kit
Eye/Ear protection

I am not military or LE, so I have a couple of questions.

1. Which holster should I use at class? I use the Serpa holster daily for concealed carry, but I would like to learn to shoot from a drop-leg.



Have you tried to wear the CCW holster with your chest rig yet? I use 6004's for sidearms and haven't found anything better.


Originally Posted By Trick:
2. Should I also wear a duty/load belt, or will the rigger's belt be stiff enough if I use the drop-leg (I'm also considering a drop-leg sub-load for mags in place of the chest harness).



I use my 6004's on a 2.25" duty belt, the Bianchi with velcro and a velcro inner belt (no keepers). A double belt setup makes for easier on/off changes, but the duty belt can conflict with your chest rig.


Originally Posted By Trick:
3. What are the most common AR parts to fail/break during class?



Unstaked carrier keys, bushmaster bolts (like to lose lugs with ~10k round count), pins/springs... I run 500-1000 rounds through before I take a carbine to class. It's also a good chance to verify zero. Oh, and LUBE!!!


Originally Posted By Trick:
4. I need comfortable knee/elbow pads. How are the Hatch pads?



I have the blackhawk 'hellstorm' pads, and both I and a team mate have broken one each. They cracked right down the middle. My current pads are Arcteryx 'knee caps', which they are now making for .mil use as well. The Alta pads with the 'alta-lock' buckle are supposed to be good, and I'm planning to get a pair eventually. Like all good 'tactical Teds', I spend a lot of time on my knees...


Originally Posted By Trick:
5. Is there anything not on my list that I might say, "Man, I wish I would've brought that!"?



A cooler and iced down water or hydration drinks of your choosing. Bring a couple gallons, if you don't use it yourself, you might help save somebody else's butt if you have extra. Bring a hat, extra points for a 'contractor cap' with velcro all over. I use mine to secure my ear pro under my nametapes (plugs on a string, not muffs )



... pic borrowed from LF that shows an assortment of gear used at the PR class I attended ...
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 11:47:32 AM EDT
the riggers belt should be fine for either holster, but, if you get a subload on your other leg, you might need suspenders, cause you're going to have to cinch that belt tight to keep things from going south.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 2:07:13 PM EDT
Resq, Trt, thanks for the feedback. Keep it coming if you've got it.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 6:23:58 AM EDT
I used a rigger's belt (SpectreGear LR) with a drop-leg for a three-day class, and it worked fine. Make sure your SERPA holster fits it ahead of time, and I second the suggestion of trying out the holster and chest rig together before you leave to make sure that they are compatible.

Don't forget the bugspray, sunblock, and munchies. When I go to active training (ie not sitting in class all day), I usually skip lunch and instead am constantly throwing down beef jerky, crackers, and fig newtons, but YMMV. A cooler full of 1L Gatorades and waters is also an excellent friend-maker.

Get the Hatch kneepads. I have a pair of Hellstorms that have survived five days of classes and various range sessions, and I am not thrilled with them. They're uncomfortable and the velcro is questionable.

When you buy ammunition for the class, get 20% more than they suggest. This keeps you from round-counting towards the end, and if there's any optional or extra exercises (you're paying for it, do it) then you don't have to hesitate about jumping in.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:30:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 5:17:07 PM EDT
Monty, I recognize some of those from somebody else's list I've seen

I forgot the sun grease and extra ammo. I ran out of good ammo and had to dip into some wolf I brought just in case. The wolf was a waste of time for me. If XM193 were more easily bought I would have had an extra 500 of that...
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 4:50:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:05:00 AM EDT
Some type of shirt with a collar(colar) whatever and a neckerchief/shemag ect to keep your buddies brass from going down your back
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:26:50 AM EDT
Thanks for all the great feedback.


Electornic ear protection that let's you hear what's going on.

I've checked out prices for the electronic muffs, and they are outrageous! Am I looking in the wrong place?

Right now I'm running a Specter single-point MOUT sling, and it eats into my neck. Will a collared shirt fix this? Should I duct tape it up around the neck, or is there another home fix?

Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:28:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 6:30:02 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 12:22:02 PM EDT
a first aid/ blowout kit. you ARE shooting and accidents do happen.

i use a regular bandana tied around my neck to keep brass out, a shemagh is way too hot and if it unties itself it could get caught in your gear. in fact, i have no clue why anybody wears one of these things.

Alta kneepads are better than any other i have used, easy on and off. fully adjustable. if you want them to last (or you had a hard time getting a pair) tape them up so the grommets don't get overstressed and tear through the fabric.

a good three-point or single point sling. something that drops your primary weapon under your weak side arm when you let go. quick-release buckles for detaching your weapon without having to climb out of your sling in a hurry


Link Posted: 8/27/2005 4:47:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Trick:

Electornic ear protection that let's you hear what's going on.

I've checked out prices for the electronic muffs, and they are outrageous! Am I looking in the wrong place?



There are a few vendors selling Peltor Tac-6's in the EE for around $70 - I got mine from Midway USA for around the same price.

It will be the best $70 you ever spend and will allow you to get the most bang for your training buck.

Take care,
Clint
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 6:23:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Trick:
Thanks for all the great feedback.


Electornic ear protection that let's you hear what's going on.

I've checked out prices for the electronic muffs, and they are outrageous! Am I looking in the wrong place?

Right now I'm running a Specter single-point MOUT sling, and it eats into my neck. Will a collared shirt fix this? Should I duct tape it up around the neck, or is there another home fix?


I got some on sale at MidwayUSA for $30.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 7:50:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By topgunpilot20:

Originally Posted By Trick:
Thanks for all the great feedback.


Electornic ear protection that let's you hear what's going on.

I've checked out prices for the electronic muffs, and they are outrageous! Am I looking in the wrong place?

Right now I'm running a Specter single-point MOUT sling, and it eats into my neck. Will a collared shirt fix this? Should I duct tape it up around the neck, or is there another home fix?


I got some on sale at MidwayUSA for $30.



TopGun, you sell duct tape for $30? man, that must be like... for rich rednecks.

just kidding man, $30 for robot earpro? sweet.

hey Trick, you can wussify that sling by taping a piece of foam under a bandana and buy some $30 duct tape from TopGun to keep it in place.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 11:33:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2005 11:34:41 AM EDT by mcgrubbs]
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 9:07:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tweeter:

Originally Posted By topgunpilot20:

Originally Posted By Trick:
Thanks for all the great feedback.


Electornic ear protection that let's you hear what's going on.

I've checked out prices for the electronic muffs, and they are outrageous! Am I looking in the wrong place?

Right now I'm running a Specter single-point MOUT sling, and it eats into my neck. Will a collared shirt fix this? Should I duct tape it up around the neck, or is there another home fix?


I got some on sale at MidwayUSA for $30.



TopGun, you sell duct tape for $30? man, that must be like... for rich rednecks.

just kidding man, $30 for robot earpro? sweet.

hey Trick, you can wussify that sling by taping a piece of foam under a bandana and buy some $30 duct tape from TopGun to keep it in place.

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 5:09:53 AM EDT
All of the advice and tips here are very good. I would advise you to use the holster you would normally use out "in the world" on a daily basis. Train as you fight, fight as you train. If you do not normally use a drop-leg holster, then don't use one in training. Don't get me wrong, sexy thigh rigs are nice, but use what you expect to use on the street.

Enjoy your training and give us a full debrief when you return.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 7:58:55 AM EDT
Thanks for all the good info, guys. I finished training (I know, I'm never finished training) this past w/e, and it was a great experience. Everything went as planned, and I will write a full report asap.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:11:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 6:46:53 PM EDT by topgunpilot20]
Looking forward to the report. Don't make us wait too long
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:08:34 PM EDT
Full report here
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 9:37:13 PM EDT
Good thread....and a tag
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:21:30 PM EDT
If you are wearing a plate carrier or vest make sure it has protective plates in it. There are some novice shooters out there that are prone to being a menace during class. I was at one class a couple of years ago and a novice shooter in my class didn't have any muzzle discipline and kept sweeping other guys in back and head. This guy also kept his finger on the trigger and made the instructor very uneasy. I second the sports drink and some energy bars because being in the sun for a few hours wearing extra gear you don't always wear will make you tired and more prone to dehydration.
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