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Posted: 7/21/2014 5:10:20 PM EDT
Hey guys, I ran across something that seemed odd to me: I live in MO and I posted an ad on Arms List and a guy from TX wants to buy my gun.  He asked me to ship it to White Wing Weaponry, so I contacted the company and asked them to send me a copy of their FFL license.  Here's the response I got:

"We do accept transfers from individuals, but we only give our license to dealers.  If you will go to this website https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/ you can verify our license status and address.  Our license number is 5-75-07749 and we do require that you send a copy of your drivers license with the firearm."

I know about the FFL EZ Check website, and the FFL number checks out, but I've never had a company refuse to send me a copy of their FFL.  Does this all sound okay or should I walk away?
Link Posted: 7/21/2014 5:41:54 PM EDT
No, its fairly common for whatever reason. I've ran into that plenty of times. Now I just give my FFL's contact info to sellers (so they can give it to their dealers) or I'll request the buyers FFL info so I can forward it to my dealer when he ships. MUCH easier than me running around trying to obtain licenses and verification.
Link Posted: 7/21/2014 6:46:08 PM EDT
Around here most of the FFL's seem to have come up with all sorts of weird rules "because the ATF told them so" - only none of them seem to match up with each other, so either there are 50 agents telling different stories to the FFL's, or there are just a couple of agents having quite a laugh...  OTOH, putting up with the various random hoops means I don't have to get my own FFL and deal with the ATF personally, so....
Link Posted: 7/21/2014 6:54:55 PM EDT
That is ALL that is necessary, we get the SAME info from most all our distributors
Link Posted: 7/21/2014 7:13:36 PM EDT
You don't need one and the Ez Check should suffice. If I do give mine to an individual I make sure to write across the print so they cannot use it to buy a gun on my license. Long ago I had a guy try to buy a gun from me at a show with his "buddies" ffl. Could have been true or he could have used a ffl's license to walk with a gun.
Link Posted: 7/21/2014 7:26:37 PM EDT
Thanks for the info guys, really appreciate the insight.
Link Posted: 7/22/2014 7:34:44 AM EDT
They are not required to send you one, and I'm guessing they don't want any extra copies of their FFL floating around. They've probably been burned before. I wouldn't have an issue sending to them, they were professional in their response.
Link Posted: 7/22/2014 9:53:57 AM EDT
The whole idea of giving copies to anyone is a outdated model. Even FFLs should not have to do this. FFL is for 3 years, guy could be revoked for years and still buying guns. System should go to an online model which is updated daily.
Link Posted: 7/22/2014 4:09:17 PM EDT
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Quoted:
The whole idea of giving copies to anyone is a outdated model. Even FFLs should not have to do this. FFL is for 3 years, guy could be revoked for years and still buying guns. System should go to an online model which is updated daily.
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Like EForms?

If a guy WAS revoked, shame on the dealers who didn't check his FFL on FFL EzCheck.

Link Posted: 7/22/2014 5:25:30 PM EDT
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Quoted:

Like EForms?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The whole idea of giving copies to anyone is a outdated model. Even FFLs should not have to do this. FFL is for 3 years, guy could be revoked for years and still buying guns. System should go to an online model which is updated daily.

Like EForms?


No, EzCheck or here

Quoted:
If a guy WAS revoked, shame on the dealers who didn't check his FFL on FFL EzCheck.



No, shame on the ATF/Congress for not using a modern system. There is no legal requirement to own a computer, much less check a revoked list. This is just another symptom of how outdated the process is, ATF does not even mail out a revoked list.
Link Posted: 7/22/2014 6:52:04 PM EDT
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Quoted:


No, EzCheck or here



No, shame on the ATF/Congress for not using a modern system. There is no legal requirement to own a computer, much less check a revoked list. This is just another symptom of how outdated the process is, ATF does not even mail out a revoked list.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The whole idea of giving copies to anyone is a outdated model. Even FFLs should not have to do this. FFL is for 3 years, guy could be revoked for years and still buying guns. System should go to an online model which is updated daily.

Like EForms?


No, EzCheck or here

Quoted:
If a guy WAS revoked, shame on the dealers who didn't check his FFL on FFL EzCheck.



No, shame on the ATF/Congress for not using a modern system. There is no legal requirement to own a computer, much less check a revoked list. This is just another symptom of how outdated the process is, ATF does not even mail out a revoked list.

It's not the responsibility of ATF or Congress to see that dealers have computers, faxes, phones, internet, email or typewriters.
And I agree, there's no law or regulation that says you have to check a list or use EzCheck. There IS a law that says it's illegal to ship a firearm interstate to a nonlicensee.......and if you want to verify that the recipient of your firearm shipment is a licensee you can use EzCheck or call ATF.

I'll bet the only reason ATF hasn't gone to a more modern system is because no one has asked. It took them until what.....2006 or 2007 to write on the FFL itself that email was okay?

Link Posted: 7/23/2014 10:33:01 AM EDT
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Quoted:
The whole idea of giving copies to anyone is a outdated model. Even FFLs should not have to do this. FFL is for 3 years, guy could be revoked for years and still buying guns. System should go to an online model which is updated daily.
View Quote

The problem is that it is required by law in transfers between licensees.  It's not a BATF policy.  Congress would have to change the requirement.
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 10:47:58 AM EDT
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Quoted:

The problem is that it is required by law in transfers between licensees.  It's not a BATF policy.  Congress would have to change the requirement.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The whole idea of giving copies to anyone is a outdated model. Even FFLs should not have to do this. FFL is for 3 years, guy could be revoked for years and still buying guns. System should go to an online model which is updated daily.

The problem is that it is required by law in transfers between licensees.  It's not a BATF policy.  Congress would have to change the requirement.


No shit?
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 12:48:47 PM EDT
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Quoted:


No shit?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The whole idea of giving copies to anyone is a outdated model. Even FFLs should not have to do this. FFL is for 3 years, guy could be revoked for years and still buying guns. System should go to an online model which is updated daily.

The problem is that it is required by law in transfers between licensees.  It's not a BATF policy.  Congress would have to change the requirement.


No shit?

Well... not quote.
18 U.S. Code ยง 922, passed by Congress, mandates interstate transfers shall only be between licensees with a few exceptions (e.g. inheritance).
27 CFR 478.94, written by the BATFE, mandates that the transferee licensee provide a copy of his license to the transferor licensee.

ETA: There is no mandate for a licensee transferee to give a copy of his license to an unlicensed transferor, and most licensees will not do it.
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 8:52:29 AM EDT
It's pretty stupid of them to think that not sharing their FFL is going to prevent much though.  If someone wanted to make a faked version of an FFL with a real FFL number and an incorrect address then it's not difficult to get the FFL number off the ATF's own website and fire up an image editor.
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 8:59:07 AM EDT
I provide copies to unlicensed people but only because it's too much trouble to explain to them they don't need it. Besides, my license copies are so marked up it would be difficult to use it for anything but shipping verification.

It would be great if we could get more people accustomed to simply using the EZ Check system.
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 2:30:41 PM EDT
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Quoted:
It would be great if we could get more people accustomed to simply using the EZ Check system.
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It would be great but not likely to happen.
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 5:39:44 PM EDT
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Quoted:

The problem is that it is required by law in transfers between licensees.  It's not a BATF policy.  Congress would have to change the requirement.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The whole idea of giving copies to anyone is a outdated model. Even FFLs should not have to do this. FFL is for 3 years, guy could be revoked for years and still buying guns. System should go to an online model which is updated daily.

The problem is that it is required by law in transfers between licensees.  It's not a BATF policy.  Congress would have to change the requirement.


Not exactly there brother...only the shipping FFL is required to get one prior to shipping.  The receiving FFL is not required to receive a copy.  It's typically courtesy for the shipping FFL to include one in the box.
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 6:50:39 PM EDT
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Not exactly there brother...only the shipping FFL is required to get one prior to shipping.  The receiving FFL is not required to receive a copy.  It's typically courtesy for the shipping FFL to include one in the box.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The whole idea of giving copies to anyone is a outdated model. Even FFLs should not have to do this. FFL is for 3 years, guy could be revoked for years and still buying guns. System should go to an online model which is updated daily.

The problem is that it is required by law in transfers between licensees.  It's not a BATF policy.  Congress would have to change the requirement.


Not exactly there brother...only the shipping FFL is required to get one prior to shipping.  The receiving FFL is not required to receive a copy.  It's typically courtesy for the shipping FFL to include one in the box.


However there is no requirement to retain a copy of the FFL only to record the name and FFL number in your A&D book.
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