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Posted: 4/10/2008 2:45:20 PM EST
Im just curious if anyone has ever attempted to form 1 (manufacture) a new MG post 1986
Link Posted: 4/10/2008 4:13:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2008 4:15:53 PM EST by tony_k]
Link Posted: 4/10/2008 7:58:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By tony_k:
Sure. Many have filed over the past 22 years; all have been rejected by BATFE.


It's still possible to register a MG with a Form 1. It just has to be for or by a gov. agency.
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 2:45:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By tony_k:
Sure. Many have filed over the past 22 years; all have been rejected by BATFE.* A few have challenged the rejection in court; all have lost.

* Footnote: I know of one that was accidentally approved; BATFE showed up at the applicant's home within weeks and demanded the approved Form 1, which (IIRC on the advice of his attorneys) the applicant surrendered.


there was a flood of them (form 1 applications for MG's) filed after the stuart case IIRC.


Link Posted: 4/11/2008 6:12:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 10:05:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/11/2008 10:06:40 AM EST by CKxx]

Originally Posted By tony_k:
Sure. Many have filed over the past 22 years; all have been rejected by BATFE.* A few have challenged the rejection in court; all have lost.

* Footnote: I know of one that was accidentally approved; BATFE showed up at the applicant's home within weeks and demanded the approved Form 1, which (IIRC on the advice of his attorneys) the applicant surrendered.


Didn't one person win at the trial level, but the ATF did not appeal for fear of what might happen if the appeal court concurred with the trial court's opinion?

ETA: Who has the lawyers(or money) to send one in a few months, then challenge it?
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 10:18:25 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 11:11:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 1:57:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 3:12:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/11/2008 3:13:51 PM EST by jcrowl]
I'm still P.O'd at NRA on how they let that ban happen. I remember writing them after the House version was passed and before it went to Senate conference committee asking them to oppose it. The response from ILA was " we are prepared to fight for machine guns AFTER (McClure-Volkmer is passed). In other words, they had poured a bunch of money into getting the FOPA passed and had to have something to show for it. I remember seeing an article in my American Rifleman after Reagan signed it crowing about "Our huge victory" .What a crock!
Remember, this was accepted by a Republican senate and signed by a Republican president.
P.S. Still waiting for the big fight on machine guns that NRA promised.
Link Posted: 4/12/2008 12:48:39 PM EST
Look at the ATF annual stats printed in SAR recently; there are some F1 MGs.
Link Posted: 4/12/2008 3:47:44 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/12/2008 6:19:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By jcrowl:
I'm still P.O'd at NRA on how they let that ban happen. I remember writing them after the House version was passed and before it went to Senate conference committee asking them to oppose it. The response from ILA was " we are prepared to fight for machine guns AFTER (McClure-Volkmer is passed). In other words, they had poured a bunch of money into getting the FOPA passed and had to have something to show for it. I remember seeing an article in my American Rifleman after Reagan signed it crowing about "Our huge victory" .What a crock!
Remember, this was accepted by a Republican senate and signed by a Republican president.
P.S. Still waiting for the big fight on machine guns that NRA promised.

Do we really have to go over it again? FOPA gave us a lot more pros than cons:

*Ammunition without needing to submit to dealer record keeping
*No need for an FFL to deal in ammunition
*Importatation of military surplus firearms
*Ability to not get screwed for transporting your legal gun through non-friendly states when engaged in interstate travel (when you follow FOPA rules)

While trading machine guns isn't a good thing, the benefits seem to be worth it.
Link Posted: 4/13/2008 10:59:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By uafgrad:
Im just curious if anyone has ever attempted to form 1 (manufacture) a new MG post 1986



Build yourself one of these!

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=9971854

Link Posted: 4/15/2008 1:22:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2008 9:02:00 AM EST by CBR900]

Originally Posted By JAD:

Originally Posted By jcrowl:
I'm still P.O'd at NRA on how they let that ban happen. I remember writing them after the House version was passed and before it went to Senate conference committee asking them to oppose it. The response from ILA was " we are prepared to fight for machine guns AFTER (McClure-Volkmer is passed). In other words, they had poured a bunch of money into getting the FOPA passed and had to have something to show for it. I remember seeing an article in my American Rifleman after Reagan signed it crowing about "Our huge victory" .What a crock!
Remember, this was accepted by a Republican senate and signed by a Republican president.
P.S. Still waiting for the big fight on machine guns that NRA promised.

Do we really have to go over it again? FOPA gave us a lot more pros than cons:

*Ammunition without needing to submit to dealer record keeping
*No need for an FFL to deal in ammunition
*Importatation of military surplus firearms
*Ability to not get screwed for transporting your legal gun through non-friendly states when engaged in interstate travel (when you follow FOPA rules)

While trading machine guns isn't a good thing, the benefits seem to be worth it.


Remember what section you are posting in here (General Class III).

Moreover, NRA claimed a "compromise" was needed. Really? Compromise?

-what did we get in exchange for the 1994 AWB or the Brady law?
-what did we get for the 1989 import ban?
-what did they give back to us civilian gun owners in exchange for tightening NICS in 2007?

Answer: NOTHING. Why? - because advocates of gun control don't negociate and they don't compromise. It does NOT work that way in real life.

NRA lied to us about "compromise" being the cause in FOPA 86.

Most of the NRA's BOD didn't give a rats ass about Title II guns and they STILL don't. Fact is, most of them think we gun owners (as a group) are better off without civilian NFA firearm possession because it makes their message of us just wanting hunting & skeet shooting guns more easy to sell to more Americans (seeing the $$$ here?). Some of the NRA's BOD are even against civilian ownership of the AR-15 rifle (like Joaquin Jackson - who you are paying to fly to the NRA convention next month - yeahm he's still on the board). We AR-15 owners are just a thorn in the side of the old farts at the skeet club & out in Ratton.

Please don't defend the NRA on this section of afrcom; I don't think many fans of Title II guns are going to chime in about how much the NRA is doing to defend civilian Title II ownership.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 9:02:14 AM EST
<edit>
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 10:16:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By JAD:

Do we really have to go over it again? FOPA gave us a lot more pros than cons:

Yes, apparently some people are still rationalizing it was a good thing.


*Ammunition without needing to submit to dealer record keeping

If you can live with 4473 & NICS, this is not much of an inconvenience.

*No need for an FFL to deal in ammunition

Who cares unless you are one of the few who want to sell ammo, but not guns.

*Importatation of military surplus firearms

Actually the Surplus firearms was signed into law in 1984 and was not part of FOPA.

*Ability to not get screwed for transporting your legal gun through non-friendly states when engaged in interstate travel (when you follow FOPA rules)

Declare a gun at NY airport for interstate travel and let us know how well that works.

While trading machine guns isn't a good thing, the benefits seem to be worth it.

Permanently losing your rights is never worth it.



Link Posted: 4/18/2008 3:57:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/18/2008 3:58:10 PM EST by CRC]
I'll take FOPA with a machine gun ban than no FOPA any day of the week.

Some folks don't realize how many years it took to pass FOPA.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 7:05:59 PM EST
Just because it took a long time doesn't justify throwing MG's under the bus. You cannot compromise with people that want to get rid of it all.
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 11:27:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
I'll take FOPA with a machine gun ban than no FOPA any day of the week.




WOW.......just,......Wow........
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 1:31:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
I'll take FOPA with a machine gun ban than no FOPA any day of the week.

Some folks don't realize how many years it took to pass FOPA.


GREAT! Here is a group you will probably go for:

www.nra.org.uk/

See? By your logic, its not so bad to lose your rights.

Want me to find a link for the Japanese Airsoft Association for you?

Jackass.
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