Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 6/10/2008 11:26:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2008 6:25:49 PM EDT by Bloencustoms]
I saw a post on a different forum where someone suggested using a 1/4" nylon bolt (the flat, unthreaded shaft portion) to use as a cheap, readily available substitute for the urethane bolt buffers everyone is selling online.

Another post suggested using plastic tubing for a fish tank or ice maker.

Any thoughts? It would be nice to have a local source for this kind of part that didn't require waiting for the UPS guy. Most of the tubing is $0.25 a foot, and the nylon bolts are cheap too, if you can find them.
Link Posted: 6/10/2008 12:40:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/10/2008 6:39:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bloencustoms:
I saw a post on a different forum where someone suggested using a 1/4" nylon bolt (the flat, unthreaded shaft portion) to use as a cheap, readily available substitute for the urethane bolt buffers everyone is selling online.

Another post suggested using plastic tubing for a fish tank or ice maker.

Any thoughts? It would be nice to have a local source for this kind of part that didn't require waiting for the UPS guy. Most of the tubing is $0.25 a foot, and the nylon bolts are cheap too, if you can find them.


I'm using the 1/4" nylon bolt in both a 10/22 and a Charger. No problems so far and they are inexpensive.
Link Posted: 6/11/2008 9:45:52 AM EDT
home depot...1/4 x 20 nylon bolt. cut threads and head off. benn using one for over a year with no problems.
Link Posted: 6/12/2008 5:28:23 PM EDT
Does this part have the same effect as the parts sold on the internet? Is it really that much of an improvement?
Link Posted: 6/12/2008 6:22:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mercenary357:
Does this part have the same effect as the parts sold on the internet? Is it really that much of an improvement?


The point is to stop the metal to metal contact and many report less noise. YMMV
Link Posted: 6/12/2008 6:52:10 PM EDT
Excuse the noob question but just where do you install this? Does it replace the upper rear pin in the reciever?
Link Posted: 6/12/2008 7:51:55 PM EDT
Excuse the Non newbie question, but why the hell would someone go out of their way to avoid buying a good quality buffer made out of the right stuff for the purpose.

I have modified 10/22's in ways that would blow peoples minds, but not once have I every thought, "man, I should make a buffer instead of buying one for $5!" This is a case of trying to save money when the actual drive to find the right material will cost more than the actual ready made part. I usually buy a few extras to keep on hand, because you never know when another 10/22 will find its way into my house.

The buffer is always the first thing I install.

BTW. The Christies buffers are shit. Hard plastic. Not the urethane that you can get from sponsers on Rimfirecentral.
Link Posted: 6/12/2008 8:14:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mercenary357:
Does this part have the same effect as the parts sold on the internet? Is it really that much of an improvement?
The only likely benefit is the reduced vibration, which isn't very noticeable until you shoot a gun with an aftermarket buffer, then you're spoiled.

Any claim to prolonged receiver life is a simple marketing claim; a friend's main Sportsman's Team Challenge gun must be nearing the three quarter million round mark, probably the first half million were with the stock (steel) buffer. We still have no idea what the service life of these things is.

They're not all urethane; KIDD's is rubber with a steel core.
Link Posted: 6/14/2008 3:51:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Excuse the Non newbie question, but why the hell would someone go out of their way to avoid buying a good quality buffer made out of the right stuff for the purpose.

I have modified 10/22's in ways that would blow peoples minds, but not once have I every thought, "man, I should make a buffer instead of buying one for $5!" This is a case of trying to save money when the actual drive to find the right material will cost more than the actual ready made part. I usually buy a few extras to keep on hand, because you never know when another 10/22 will find its way into my house.

The buffer is always the first thing I install.

BTW. The Christies buffers are shit. Hard plastic. Not the urethane that you can get from sponsers on Rimfirecentral.


Well, for one, I'm all for free market, etc. I think it's great that there are people making money selling a tiny lump of plastic for $5 a pop. But, if I can find a source for 1/4" urethane rod of a similar durometer, I'll happily buy a 3 or 4 foot lng section of it, (probably for a lot less than the equivalent number of commercial buffers) and cut it to length myself. Or, alternately, I'll be happy to find some other 1/4" diameter material that works in this application. Nylon bolts, vinyl or PVC tubing, rubber hose reinforced with a steel pin, etc.

It doesn't really matter what material you use as long as it doesn't deform, crush or break. Anything softer than the factory steel pin is at least a marginal improvement. Some of us just like to do things ourselves, rather than wait for things to come in the mail. For instance, a lot of people buy and install their own barrels in 10/22 rifles. I'm sure there are a lot of people who send their guns to a gunsmith to have the barrel installed. I don't think there's a problem with those who DIY, if they do the proper research beforehand.

Someone had to experiment with different materials to come up with the urethane buffer in the first place. Individuals who conduct their own experimentation are doing so in the same spirit as the people who are now selling the urethane buffers online.

Now, don't get me wrong. There are some things the average tinkerer just can't make at home (most people don't have the tools and expertise). But for those things that I can make at home, I do. A large part of the pleasure I get from this hobby is tinkering with the guns and doing my own repairs / maintenance and upgrdes. And you're right, it's entirely possible you could spend more in gas looking for a substitute for a commercially available part, but where's the fun in that?
Link Posted: 6/14/2008 7:47:56 PM EDT
Go to www.smallparts.com and type in part number ZAR-04 for ABS rod with 1/4 inch diameter and 24-inch length for the price of $1.52. Then simply cut the length with a sharp razor blade or knife to the length of the 10-22 buffer and you are set. At 24 inches of length, you will have enough for a lifetime and plenty of 10-22s! The ABS will be durable and elastic and will not become brittle but will be stiff enough to be an excellent buffer. Works for me.
Link Posted: 6/15/2008 6:57:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bloencustoms:

Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Excuse the Non newbie question, but why the hell would someone go out of their way to avoid buying a good quality buffer made out of the right stuff for the purpose.

I have modified 10/22's in ways that would blow peoples minds, but not once have I every thought, "man, I should make a buffer instead of buying one for $5!" This is a case of trying to save money when the actual drive to find the right material will cost more than the actual ready made part. I usually buy a few extras to keep on hand, because you never know when another 10/22 will find its way into my house.

The buffer is always the first thing I install.

BTW. The Christies buffers are shit. Hard plastic. Not the urethane that you can get from sponsers on Rimfirecentral.


Well, for one, I'm all for free market, etc. I think it's great that there are people making money selling a tiny lump of plastic for $5 a pop. But, if I can find a source for 1/4" urethane rod of a similar durometer, I'll happily buy a 3 or 4 foot lng section of it, (probably for a lot less than the equivalent number of commercial buffers) and cut it to length myself. Or, alternately, I'll be happy to find some other 1/4" diameter material that works in this application. Nylon bolts, vinyl or PVC tubing, rubber hose reinforced with a steel pin, etc.

It doesn't really matter what material you use as long as it doesn't deform, crush or break. Anything softer than the factory steel pin is at least a marginal improvement. Some of us just like to do things ourselves, rather than wait for things to come in the mail. For instance, a lot of people buy and install their own barrels in 10/22 rifles. I'm sure there are a lot of people who send their guns to a gunsmith to have the barrel installed. I don't think there's a problem with those who DIY, if they do the proper research beforehand.

Someone had to experiment with different materials to come up with the urethane buffer in the first place. Individuals who conduct their own experimentation are doing so in the same spirit as the people who are now selling the urethane buffers online.

Now, don't get me wrong. There are some things the average tinkerer just can't make at home (most people don't have the tools and expertise). But for those things that I can make at home, I do. A large part of the pleasure I get from this hobby is tinkering with the guns and doing my own repairs / maintenance and upgrdes. And you're right, it's entirely possible you could spend more in gas looking for a substitute for a commercially available part, but where's the fun in that?


I do completely understand they sentiment! I am a tinkerer myself. The buffer is one item I spent quite a bit of time trying to find the right combination of softness and toughness, often realizing that I was spending gas money on the easy stuff. I just choose to dedicate my efforts to the trigger group and bolt to get the most out of my rifles.

I wouldn't compare the bolt buffer with replacing a barrel. It would be more like trying to make a barrel from the ground up. That would actually be alot of fun to learn how to do, but the expense of the tools necessary to do it right are just way too high for most of us right now.

I don't use aftermarket hammers, sears, or disconnectors any more. The stockers are just fine with the right TLC.

If you do find something that works, good for you. Just don't end up like me, spending $30 on gas trying to find that right material.
Link Posted: 6/15/2008 7:03:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2008 7:18:13 AM EDT by OdT]
Link Posted: 6/15/2008 10:57:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2008 10:59:50 AM EDT by shadrach]
I am currently experimenting with a length of drinking straw filled with high temp. hot glue. After a few hundred rounds so far so good. I cannot see paying $5 for a small piece of plastic and then paying to have it shipped. Just feels wrong.
Link Posted: 6/16/2008 4:57:55 AM EDT
So order when you order a bunch of other stuff.
Link Posted: 6/16/2008 4:30:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By frog5215:
So order when you order a bunch of other stuff.


Or make them yourself and forget about the "bunch of other stuff".
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 10:03:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2008 10:08:04 AM EDT by Chadsghost]
I purchased my first 10/22 a few months ago, a basic used carbine. My goal was to have an inexpensive shooter. I polished and modified some parts myself. The only pre-made parts that I purchased were an extractor and a few magazines.


I thought that the price for the polyurethane buffers being sold was high and figured I could come up with a cheaper part.

I ordered 6" of extruded 1/4" black polyurethane rod from McMaster-Carr (around $12 with shipping, enough material for 4 buffers). It was several thousandths over 1/4" and didn't fit. McMaster-Carr refunded my money.


I found Acrotech online. They make 1/4" precision cast polyurethane rod in different durometers. Their 80A durometer is orange and I suspect the same material as the WeaponKraft buffers. The 1/4" size is available in 12" and 24" lengths, around $15 and $20 respectively.

I spent around $50 (inc shipping) to order two 24" pieces, orange 80A and red 95A. I figured I could cut them up and sell some buffers myself.

The red rod was about .252" and fits beautifully, easy to remove for disassembly. The original orange rod was around .255" and did not fit into the hole. When I contacted Acrotech they were very helpful and had someone mic some stock and sent a replacement that they claimed was exactly .250". When it arrived it was actually closer to .253" and a snug fit.

This material is not easy to cut accurately and square. I ended up drilling a hole in a piece of wood to support the rod while cutting. The cuts are still not perfectly square but close.

I've spent a lot of time finding, ordering, re-ordering and cutting. I have one red buffer in my rifle (I like the way the red fits, easy to remove and reinstall for cleaning), have given one each to a friend, and the rest are still sitting in the basement. All for only $50 plus my time.


My recommendations would be to:

A) Order a pre-made buffer from one of the companies selling them
or
B) Go the cheap route and use a nylon bolt.

If I knew then what I know now I would choose A.
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 1:32:23 PM EDT
I read in a thread on RimfireCentral.com that the buffer rod is an acetal rod or DuPont's brand name of Delrin. I purchased a Delrin rod at Grainger. Grainger sells a 1 ft rod for $.43 or a 3 ft rod for $1.15. After about 250 rounds, it shows no signs of wear at all. Even if it does wear faster than some rods, I can get about 80 rods for their 1 rod at $6 each. I bought the 1 foot rod figuring that I wouldn't ever need more than 8 or 9 pieces. For $.05 each I figured that I would give it a try.

1 ft Delrin Rod

3 ft Delrin Rod
Link Posted: 6/17/2008 5:56:15 PM EDT
For those who don't want to go the DIY route, GunKings has bolt buffers for $6.00 SHIPPED.


GunKings.com
Link Posted: 6/22/2008 5:26:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shadrach:
I am currently experimenting with a length of drinking straw filled with high temp. hot glue. After a few hundred rounds so far so good. I cannot see paying $5 for a small piece of plastic and then paying to have it shipped. Just feels wrong.


How do you not melt the straw? [says the man that just wasted 4 hot glue sticks, a dozen straws and has burns on 3 fingers now...]
Link Posted: 6/22/2008 5:58:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By barrysuperhawk:

Originally Posted By shadrach:
I am currently experimenting with a length of drinking straw filled with high temp. hot glue. After a few hundred rounds so far so good. I cannot see paying $5 for a small piece of plastic and then paying to have it shipped. Just feels wrong.


How do you not melt the straw? [says the man that just wasted 4 hot glue sticks, a dozen straws and has burns on 3 fingers now...]


I would place a value of $50 on each of those burns, and a cost of $.50 on each glue stick and at least $.25 in straws so the total is around $54.25 on that experiment!

Just kidding and making the point that $6 really isn't that bad.
Link Posted: 6/23/2008 1:45:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By batmanacw:
... making the point that $6 really isn't that bad.


Yes, it is.
Link Posted: 6/23/2008 3:30:09 AM EDT
I bought 4 of the commercial rods and shot about 500 rounds out of each of my rifles this weekend. Conclusion is

1. Recoil is reduced.

2. The sight picture from the scope doesn't jump as much as with the steel buffer.

3. After 500 rounds the rods show very little distortion. (but they do show some)

4. They run quieter.

Link Posted: 6/23/2008 5:46:24 PM EDT
The biggest problem I have with the one commercial buffer I own is that it's an extremely tight fit in two of my three receivers. The only gun it fits "good" in is my beater. I have to use a punch to force it out halfway, then wiggle and pull to get it out completely. It's a PITA.

I have fired about 25 rounds through the beater gun with a section of 1/4" pvc icemaker tubing ($0.17 per foot). I haven't opened it up to look at the tubing yet, but it was nice and quiet to shoot. I'm not sure if such a low number of shots would be any solid indicator of the material's future performance, but if it holds up after a few hundred rounds, I'll post about it.

Incidentally, trimming the stuff was easy for me. I just inserted it into the receiver, then used a razor blade to "shave" the excess material off the sides. The tubing fits perfectly flush now.
Link Posted: 6/23/2008 6:25:19 PM EDT
Well, curiosity got the best of me and I opened up the gun and took some pics.

The ice maker tubing is not a good choice. It was beginning to deform after only 25 rounds or so. While it functioned well, it would eventually cause harm, rather than good.

Here's a pic of the tubing after it was removed. You might be able to make out some of the dents in the material. (Or not.)



So, I'm going to try something different. Here's a pic of some 1/8" spring pins ($0.79 for a pack of 5). I have some 1/4"OD, 1/8"ID clear vinyl hose ($0.10 per foot). I'm going to trim the pin down to the width of the receiver and insert it into the hose, then try this as a buffer. The vinyl seems more resiliant than the PVC tubing, so it might not deform.



A pic of the trimmed pin inserted in the vinyl tubing...




And, the whole she-bang installed in the rifle. It's suprisingly a bit of a loose fit. I may decide to expand the pin a little if this "buffer" works out. If not, next on the list will be automotive vacuum hose.

Link Posted: 7/20/2008 3:50:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 3:51:32 PM EDT by Bloencustoms]
Well, it's been a while since I have taken this particular rifle for a spin, but yesterday I ran 40 shots through it.

The aquarium hose / roll pin combination shows no wear or deformation after 40 rounds.

Recoil was not noticably different vs. a commercial urethane buffer. Function was quiet as well.

I still want to try using some rubber automotive vacuum hose with a roll pin insert as well.

Also, I have some 1/8" music wire I might try instead of the roll pin, but so far, the aquarium clear vinyl air hose seems to be working just fine. I'll need a higher round count to be sure, but it has already outperformed the PVC ice maker hose hands down.

I'll add to this again if I discover anything better.
Top Top