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Posted: 10/11/2007 5:36:07 AM EST
It has probably been posted before, doesn't make it any less awesome.

From here

An open letter to the gun community from HK’s marketing department: In a world of compromises, some people put the bullets in the magazine backwards…

But it doesn’t matter, because our gun is on the cover of the Rainbow Six video games. Look how cool that SEAL coming out of the water looks… If you buy a $2,000 SOCOM, you will be that cool of an operator too. And chicks will dig you.

At HK, we stuck a piston on an AR15, just like a bunch of other companies have done, dating back to about 1969. However ours is better, because we refuse to sell it to civilians. Because you suck, and we hate you.

Our XM8 is the greatest rifle ever developed. It may melt, and it doesn’t fit any accessories known to man, but that is your fault. If you were a real operator, you would love it. Once again, look at Rainbow Six, that G36 sure is cool isn’t it? Yeah, you know you want one.

And by the way, check out our new HK45. We decided that humans don’t need to release the magazine with their thumbs. If you were a really manly teutonic operator, you would be able to reach the controls. Plus we’ve fired 100,000,000 rounds through one with zero malfunctions, and that was while it was buried in a lake of molten lava, on the moon. If you don’t believe us, it is because you aren’t a real operator.

By the way, our cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns like the G3 and MP5 are the bestest things ever, and totally worth asinine scalpers prices, but note that cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns from other countries are commie garbage. Not that it matters, because you’re civilians, so we won’t sell them to you anyway. Because you suck, and we hate you, but we know you’ll be back. We can beat you down like a trailer park wife, but you’ll come back, you always do.

Buy our stuff.

Sincerely

HK Marketing DepartmentHK. Because you suck. And we hate you.

I don’t know if you can tell, but I’m not the biggest fan of H und K. I posted that letter on THR a long time ago as a joke, but it sure did manage to tick a lot of people off. Ironically, the tag line, HK. Because you suck. And we hate you, has been popping up in various places ever since.



Sure, they’re decently reliable, decently accurate guns, but they’re massively overpriced and overrated by legions of fan boys. One of the most frustrating things about dealing with gun people on the interweb is that folks tend to pick a brand, and then base some of their self-esteem on that brand. Kind of like rabid sports fans who feel the need to burn cars if their team wins, or loses, or they just felt like burning stuff. Say something negative about that team to one of those rabid fans, and you’re probably going to get beat up. Likewise, if you say anything negative about the Teutonic superiority of HK, people get mad at you.



Well, I love hate mail, so here goes.



For each of their wunder guns, you can get something else that costs a lot less, and works better, and has ergonomics designed by people that actually shoot. HK came about when some Nazis fled to Spain and built the Cetme. But Cetme doesn’t sound very tough, does it? So they went back to Germany and became H and K, and if you call it H and K, fan boys will get mad, and insist that it is HK, because manly Teutonic operators and Navy SEALs don’t have time to say the word And. So HK rose to prominence by building the G3, which is what the Germans call the Cetme.



Now the G3 is a decent rifle. It is a cheap, stamped sheet metal, battle rifle. It has terrible ergonomics, with a hard to use safety, (and this is coming from a guy with gorilla hands), and difficult to use charging handle. It is reliable, because of the roller locking bolt that destroys your brass, and recoils worse than other competing .308 rifles. The FAL smokes the G3, and the only reason the G3 exists is because the Germans were too proud to pay royalties to those uppity Belgians.



The G3 can be really accurate, if you weld a bunch of metal to the sides of it, stick on a nice barrel, and jack the price up $10,000. And no, that’s not a typo. The PSG1 is absurdly priced, and the cheaper version, the MSG90 is proof that if make anything absurdly heavy enough, it can be accurate.



There is a collapsible stock available, which is awesome, if you like getting hit in the face with a piece of rebar, which is what their $400 stock feels like when you shoot it. Germans must be tougher than we are or something.



Other stamped, sheet metal guns exist, but HK fan boys mock those as commie garbage. See, if you build a cheap gun, but it is from Germany, then it is superior, but if you build a stamped gun in the eastern block (a hundred miles from Germany) then it is commie garbage.



But what brought HK to international fame and the cover of Dick Marcinko books (for example, Rogue Force Delta Green Team 7 Ninja Force Alpha II: The beginning) was the G3s little brother, the MP5. Take a G3, shrink it, and chamber it in 9mm. At the time, CQB doctrine was to use 9mm subguns. Now the MP5 is a neat little gun. I have two. They work well, and if compared to the other subguns of the day, like the Uzi or the Mac, then the MP5 was a lot easier to use, easier to hit with, and was decently reliable.



The MP5 became famous when the SAS used them to kick the living hell out of some bad guys at the Iranian embassy. This was marketing gold, and HK rode the wave. Pretty soon everybody wanted an MP5. It was what all the cool kids were using. Soon every video game and action movie was filled with HK stuff. HK may have overrated guns, but they’ve got the best marketing department in the gun business, and they milked that fee cow until it was dry.



But the MP5 isn’t as great as people make them out to be. They still malfunction. (if you’re favorite gun hasn’t malfed, you haven’t shot it enough). The mags are hard to insert on a closed bolt. Safety still sucks. Most versions don’t have a bolt hold open. Honestly, if I had to get into a gunfight with a subgun, then I would rather have my PPsH.



HK long guns were mostly unobtainable to US civilians, primarily because HK hates the civilian market. If you don’t believe me, go talk to them at SHOT show, and watch them sneer at regular people. They can’t help themselves. But like all unobtainable things, like Ferraris, and super models, regular folks start to imagine these unobtainable things as perfection, when really they’re just an expensive car that spends most of its time in the shop, or a chick with mental problems and Bulimia. That’s what happened with HK. Their products took on this aura of coolness amongst the fans, that just isn’t real.



For example, go to any thread on the internet where somebody brings up “What is the Best Rifle EVAR!” and there is a poll. On the poll will be some HK long guns that 99.85% of the gun owning public has never seen, let alone shot, but those guns will have the most votes, because the HK marketing department told you how awesome they are.



Read up about the XM8 on most gun boards. According to the interweb, the XM8 is the finest combat implement of all time. In actuality it is a plastic AR18, that tends to melt, break, and is universally loathed by the Army staff that had to test it. It takes bizarre attachments, so no US accessories will work. They took the G36, which is basically a blah rifle, used by a handful of countries that don’t ever actually shoot people, and uglied it up so that it looks like the demented lovechild of Bloaty the Pizza Hog and a Super-Soaker.



Or the HK416. According to the internet, the HK416 is the best gun EVER! It is called THE AWESOME. Lightning bolts of coolness fly from the gun and smite your enemies with Teutonic fury! However you can’t have one, because you’re a civilian, ergo, you suck. And HK hates you.



The 416 is basically an AR with a gas piston, which has been done by like ten companies now, but somehow the HK is better, because it was on Future Weapons, and HK won’t sell it to civilians. In fact, a couple of 416s slipped out into civilian hands, and HK freaked out about it. There is no legal reason that 416 uppers can’t be sold, but HK despises regular people, and the idea of you having their long guns offends them.



You can get civilian HK long guns, once in a while, when HK feels like it, but they’re usually hyper-neutered and over priced. Hell, the last ones were actually grey, because you know, black is too dangerous, or something.



HK’s new subgun is the UMP. They tend to break. One of our local PDs traded all of theirs in after they broke all the stocks. Cool idea, because everybody loves .45, but bad execution.



HK’s flagship pistols, the USP line, are decent polymer handguns. They are extremely reliable, that is the plus side. On the down side, their triggers universally suck, but they don’t have to. HK likes to use a square peg in a round hole, (literally) that makes the trigger pull a lot heavier and grittier than it needs to be. Why? Beats the heck out of me. The USP series should be reliable, they’re enormous.



The most annoying thing about the HK pistols is how they cost almost twice as much as every other polymer handgun on the market. Somehow being made in Germany means the USP series is worth $800-$1000, when all of the polymer guns made within a thousand miles are $400-$600. Only most of those guns tend to have better triggers, are just as reliable, and are usually more accurate.



Then there is the Mk23. Which is huge, accurate, reliable, (which it damn well better be, since it is the size and weight of a Mini-14) costs as much as a used car, huge, and is universally despised by the SF that it is issued to. Talk to anyone that is in an SF unit. The Mk23s they’ve been issued sit unused in arms room. Did I mention that it is HUGE? But that’s okay, because the HK fan boys will explain that it is an OFFENSIVE handgun. (scratches head) whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.



They are reliable, but so is a $125 Makarov. Only the Mak has a better trigger.



I have two guys that I work with that have been to the HK armorer’s school. If you think I’m biased, you should talk to them. They especially love working with the Germans. One fellow was yelled at because he had two magazines clamped together on his MP5, because “NEIN! That is not the H und K way!” Even though he had bought the mag clamp from HK. When you ask why the original MP5 doesn’t have a last shot bolt hold open, they’ll yell at you and say, “NEIN! Why would you want your enemy to know your gun is empty!” Hell, Hans, I just want to know when my gun is empty!



One friend of mine took his personal MP5, and cut an extra notch into the collapsible stock, so it would be shorter for when he was wearing his armor, and also it removed the nasty wobble that all HK collapsible stocks have. It is an easy fix, and a no-brainer that the HK should have been doing for years. Fritz at the armorer’s school damn near had an aneurism when he saw this blasphemy against his ineffectual German gods.



Look, gun owning public, just because you saw it on Future Weapons, or read about it on the internet, doesn’t make it true. For the love of John Moses Browning, before you formulate super strong opinions about a weapon, you should have at least shot the damn thing first.



Do I have anything positive to say about HK? Yes, the sneer of disdain they give you at SHOT is priceless and entertaining.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 5:49:50 AM EST
Please stop being so cryptic and tell us how you really feel about H&K...
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 5:50:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 5:50:47 AM EST by 53vortec]
3/10

Yeah, H&K hates the US civilian market so much they sold us some of the "evilest" long guns available before President HW Bush ripped their ass out of the market.

They continue to punish us by not building a facility in the US for the sole purpose of supplying long guns to US civilians when they no that market could be eliminated with the stroke of a pen. How ever could they be so unreasonable?


Is H&K overrated by some folks? For sure, but then so is most every other gun company. I don't get the H&K fanboydom (or any fanboydom, for that matter), but I don't get the H&K hate, either.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 5:52:31 AM EST
His rant is kinda weak...
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 6:11:09 AM EST

Sure, they’re decently reliable, decently accurate guns, but they’re massively overpriced and overrated by legions of fan boys. One of the most frustrating things about dealing with gun people on the interweb is that folks tend to pick a brand, and then base some of their self-esteem on that brand. Kind of like rabid sports fans who feel the need to burn cars if their team wins, or loses, or they just felt like burning stuff. Say something negative about that team to one of those rabid fans, and you’re probably going to get beat up. Likewise, if you say anything negative about the Teutonic superiority of HK, people get mad at you.


Is that so?

Let's see, I own a Colt, several Rugers, an XD, a Glock, a USPc, a Taurus, a CZ-52, and others, so I'm sure I'm unqualified to comment, but what the hell.

The USPc has been flawless. Absolutely flawless. I've experienced no one single malfunction with the pistol. Its ergonomics are a HELL of a lot better than the Glock (2nd gen G17. Decent enough ergos, MUCH better than the 3rd gen finger grooves, but still not as good as the USPc). The only pistol I own that I can shoot better is my Colt 1911, and I'm not THAT far behind with the USP.

What always perplexes me is how vocal the H&K haters seem to think they have to be. So you don't like them. Big deal. Don't buy them. There's plenty of options out there for you, fortunately. No one's forcing you to buy H&K's "crappy" products.

They work fine for me and that's all I really care about.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 6:22:13 AM EST
hk has always been out of budget for me. so with that siad, I'm indifferent, you love it, you hate it, I don't care. The only way you could get me not to buy a firearms if they are anti american.( I am not saying hk is for those that will read this and go halfcocked)
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 6:33:53 AM EST
HK is a great company. They are able to take a polymer pistol same as Glocks, Xds, etc and charge twice as much.

And people pay it!!! I say good job HK! Way to make money!
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 6:54:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Goback:
HK is a great company. They are able to take a polymer pistol same as Glocks, Xds, etc and charge twice as much.

And people pay it!!! I say good job HK! Way to make money!


Yeah but those others don't say "HK" on the side.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 7:28:26 AM EST
That rant was gehyr then Richard Simmons sucking a cock.


If you can't afford H&K's just go play with your high point carbine and STFU, stop proving what a know nothing douchebag air-soft fan you are, just because your Mommy has an internet connection doesn't mean you have to use it.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:04:09 AM EST
That's from my blog.

As for not being able to afford HK or being struck with envy, I'm one of the owners of an NFA gun store. I have two FA MP5s and have gone through a bunch of their overpriced stuff. I've only got about 10,000 rounds through various HK stuff through different classes and teaching. I'm carrying a $1,600 pistol right now so I'm not particularly envious, and I haven't played airsoft in my life. I'm pretty sure I'm not typing this from my mom's basement, nor have I ever actually got to meet Richard Simmons, nor perform any sexual acts on him.

Man, I got linked to arfcom. Hoo ray! If my ranting is too weak for you, I'll have to make sure I throw in more F words and references to "sucking cock" Better luck to me next time!
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:12:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 8:13:41 AM EST by BB]
Uh, German guns are expensive because they are made in Germany. Duh.
Make anything in a socialist state with a bazillion tariffs working against your import/export business and see what that does to the price.

As for the other stuff outside of the price issue, I agree 100%.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:16:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By A-nus:
That rant was gehyr then Richard Simmons sucking a cock.


If you can't afford H&K's just go play with your high point carbine and STFU, stop proving what a know nothing douchebag air-soft fan you are, just because your Mommy has an internet connection doesn't mean you have to use it.


6.) Attacking or insulting a person in an effort to elicit a negative response. You have a right to disagree, but please do so in a respectful manner.

Someone needs a time out to go read the CoC.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:21:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By Goback:

Originally Posted By A-nus:
That rant was gehyr then Richard Simmons sucking a cock.


If you can't afford H&K's just go play with your high point carbine and STFU, stop proving what a know nothing douchebag air-soft fan you are, just because your Mommy has an internet connection doesn't mean you have to use it.


6.) Attacking or insulting a person in an effort to elicit a negative response. You have a right to disagree, but please do so in a respectful manner.

Someone needs a time out to go read the CoC.

And you expected more from a guy calling himself anus?
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:39:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By Correia:
If my ranting is too weak for you, I'll have to make sure I throw in more F words and references to "sucking cock" Better luck to me next time!


I'm not sure why I thought it was weak, as I generally don't have a high amount of love for all things H&K. It certainly wasn't lack of F bombs.

I mean I guess we can agree that the factory USP trigger sucks for a pistol in the $700 range. Then again, I bet we might agree that the Glock trigger sucks too. I suppose we don't expect as much from a trigger in a pistol that can be had for $399. Right?

As to the HK416, I'd consider it pretty hefty praise that the people who can get it continue to buy them in quantity. Not for resale, or pimping on the internet, but for actual hard use. Luckily, I don't really see a need for one -- otherwise I'd have already bought one.

The HK45 is a pretty nice pistol, and it seems like the anti-USP, in all aspects except pricing of course.

Who cares if HK doesn't want to suck up to the lowest common denominator?? Or in your case doesn't want to suck up to a co-owner of a gun shop.

I don't lose one wink of sleep over it, at all. I know how to get their stuff if I want it.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:41:58 AM EST
I thought it was pretty funny. I'm not an HK fan or a hater so it doesn't bother me.

My buddy in the 10th Special Forces Group would agree with you on the Mk23. I asked him what his favorite handgun was about four years ago and the first thing that he said was that he hated the HK Mk23.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:56:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By SPTiger:
I thought it was pretty funny. I'm not an HK fan or a hater so it doesn't bother me.

My buddy in the 10th Special Forces Group would agree with you on the Mk23. I asked him what his favorite handgun was about four years ago and the first thing that he said was that he hated the HK Mk23.

The Mk23 is simply a product of the government/military specifications that it had to meet for the product solicitation and competition. Blame the folks who wrote the specs, not the folks that met them.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 8:58:55 AM EST
I own 2 and have owned 4 HK's at one time or another and while they are high priced, they are totally reliable in my experiences. I share the writers frustration at not having some HK products available to us but i dont hate the HK company, YET! IN a handgun Im a #1 Sig Sauer fan first but HK runs a close 2nd.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:18:27 AM EST
As others have pointed out H&K sold a lot of EBR's here before Bush 41 banned them. I don't know why they would not sell a 416 upper here though. I guess they don't want to piss off the Nancy-boys in congress that have the power to send huge .mil contracts their way.


Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:27:32 AM EST
I always was an HK fanboy until I owned a few. The G3 while a great rifle is blocky and as you correctly stated has the ergonimincs of a 2x4, but then again so does my AKs. I sold that 91 off a long time ago.
I did until recently have a factory 93 which was the evilest looking thing. Alas I never shot it much. One reason the trigger sucked and I never got around to getting a trigger job done. When I was an SOT I loved my posty MP5. Personally I doubt the SMG concept could have been done better (except for that saftery thing).
Now to the pistols. I just never liked them. Cost is rarely a factor for me. It never was. I have owned 2 usps good guns but the 45 tactical had to go home to HK to get fixed, that never botherd me, as shit happens. I just did not jive with them.
I sold my last HK the 93 a few months back to clear up funds for a FA FNC, I dont regret it. it was a safe queen and the guy who has it now shoots the piss out of it. He loves it. then again he wears camo when not at home (civil affairs in the US army) plus a great shooter. So Irespect his opinion of the rifle. Are they good guns? Yeah they are, are they over hyped? yeah. Would I buy another one? Maybe.
What would keep me from buying?
The refusal to sell to the civilian market. Simply I just dont like their marketing.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:57:54 AM EST
I was an HK fanboy in my earlier SOCOM video game playing gun lover phase.

Now, I don't really care for them. I'm not saying they suck, but I do think they're a bit on the pricey side for what they are. I also think every last one of their lines is rivaled by much cheaper firearms, but again, that doesn't mean they're junk. I also think while they were considered innovative at one point, they no longer are. Also making everything proprietary is a load of shit, but they seem to be giving up on that failure seeing as the P2000, P3000, and HK45 all have picatinny rails instead of their old useless junk.

I do however have an extreme hatred for HK fanatics. I can't respect anyone's opinion with a bias as strong as some HK guys have. A very good friend of mine is a perfect example. I was talking to him awhile back about a buddy who had gotten a Sig 226. The HK fanboy buddy was telling me how he shoots the Sig better, the Sig has never had a failure, it was so much cheaper, and seemed to be just as accurate, if not more than his USP Tactical. He then went on to say "But mine's a USP Tactcial, so I have the better gun". I find this to be the typical response of HK owners, and the elite bullshit is one of the few reasons I try to avoid HK Pro.


HK is over rated? Yes, very much so. HK sucks? Not entirely.

JMO.

Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:15:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By weptek911:
I don't know why they would not sell a 416 upper here though.

Because they can't import "AW" barrels or receivers.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:19:25 AM EST
Old school 1911 for me If I run out of ammo it turns into a war hammer.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:31:45 AM EST
Correia's hilarious. One of the funniest guys on the boards.

That rant's classic. Painfully true.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:41:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 10:44:59 AM EST by SilentType]
I think the OP has a horrible misunderstanding of European business.

The problem with HK is the same one you'll find with multiple EU companies, outside of Fn Herstal that is, and thats that while they have great engineers they have horrible business men.

HK is becoming a second rate manufacturer and it is because each year they get weaker while Fn Herstal become stronger. We've already seen HK lose contracts here in the United States and even around the world.

What the good Germans over at HK have is a total lack of motivation to invest here in the United States, which will always prevent them from obtaining serious bids from the US Military. If they established a factory within the United States they could prove their ability for US production and accomplish a lot.

The SCAR is going to be the nail in HK's coffin though as it will have all the reliability an HK 416 has along with a true modular ability that HK lacks.

The P90 is chambered for a superior caliber over the MP7 and thats becoming more apparent everyday to the larger LEO and military groups.

I think we have seen HK's best days and the future at this point isn't looking to bright for them unless they can copy what Fn Herstal has been so good at.

HK pistols are probably the most overrated pistols I have ever seen. They have triggers that have long pulls and resests along with too much weight. HK pistols have horrible ergonomics that contribute to significant recoil/muzzle flip over other pistols.

The UMP failed to gain approval of the FBI through recent trials. They have stoped making the MP5 and the G-36 has proven to have problems with heat. The HK 416 while a fine rifle is five years behind the times.

The future of firearms is modular and HK is way behind the curve there. Right now they get a lot of mileage out of those two little letters, but I am almost certain that with the SCAR those two little letters wont mean as much.

Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:48:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By weptek911:
As others have pointed out H&K sold a lot of EBR's here before Bush 41 banned them. I don't know why they would not sell a 416 upper here though. I guess they don't want to piss off the Nancy-boys in congress that have the power to send huge .mil contracts their way.




That has almost zip to do with it. Last I checked Colt and Fn Herstal are selling plenty of firearms to civilians.

Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:55:09 AM EST
How many Glocks do you own?
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:57:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By SilentType:

Originally Posted By weptek911:
As others have pointed out H&K sold a lot of EBR's here before Bush 41 banned them. I don't know why they would not sell a 416 upper here though. I guess they don't want to piss off the Nancy-boys in congress that have the power to send huge .mil contracts their way.




That has almost zip to do with it. Last I checked Colt and Fn Herstal are selling plenty of firearms to civilians.



Almost zip ? I said it was a "guess" .

I can't imagine any other wild reason. It seems to me they could get an American company to make H&K branded lowers and import the uppers and whatever parts needed that wouldn't violate 922r


FN doesn't sell AR15 based weapons. BTW
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:01:41 AM EST
I actually prefer their mag release to more American designs but I hate their policy toward non LE/.mil which Is why I will no longer support them or Colt
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:15:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 11:16:04 AM EST by rob78]
this thread is full of vaginosis.


The USP series works for me. Couldn't care less what you face-slapping nancy boys think

eta: and I'll be picking up an HK45 as well. queers.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:25:49 AM EST
Well now........I don't own any HKs, but my buddy has a USP40. It shot ok, didn't feel right in my hands though.

I like my XD45
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:26:52 AM EST
HK. they don't want to sell to you & you don't want to buy from them.

What is the problem?

I have a lot of AR's, but I always prefer shooting my H&K 93 & carrying my P7. For me they are more reliable & have better ergonomics.

But if I was on a severe budget, I would be shooting a Glock pistol & a Stag AR w/o feeling underarmed at all.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:35:29 AM EST



my USP's felt like they were made just for my hand, and i love the mag release. machining is beautiful, and finish is pretty good.

i can't shoot USP's worth a shit though, slow and inaccurate.


Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:46:46 AM EST
HK is a totally different company than it was back in the 80s and early 90s
and has changed ownership since then. The plain flat truth is the current
ownership doesn't believe in civilains owning semiautomatic firearms-the
type we call evil, black rifles. I love the 90 series of firearms, the P7 and
P9 pistol lines, but that's HK of a long time ago. Now, I would not buy any new
product from them and, in my opinion, doing so supports their anti-civilian
position.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:51:49 AM EST
The USP was a decent $400 gun back when I owned one... before guns in videogames were more than five pixels.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:55:35 AM EST

Well I agree 100% and have gotten in many a flame war with HK fanboys over this exact topic. It usually gets pretty silly.


Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:56:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By SS109:
HK. they don't want to sell to you & you don't want to buy from them.

read my post above. vaginosis most assuredly.

What is the problem?

I have a lot of AR's, but I always prefer shooting my H&K 93 & carrying my P7. For me they are more reliable & have better ergonomics.

But if I was on a severe budget, I would be shooting a Glock pistol & a Stag AR w/o feeling underarmed at all.


I can't figure it out either.

I like the USP series and I like my MK23. I carry a USPc.40 after trying the others...it's what fits.

IMO, the USP mag release is much faster than the standard thumb release as it doesn't require a grip shift or oversized buttons.

The USPs DA trigger isn't great, but what DA/SA pistol is? The fact that I carry in condition one negates it regardless (something the "others" aren't able to do).

The one real design criticism of the USP series is the high bore axis IMO. With the 9mm or 45 I can't tell any difference, but it does rear its ugly head when shooting the 40.

After a bit of practice (something lots of folks here don't do) muzzle flip isn't nearly as apparent.

As usual, much of what's been posted is simply parroting what others before them have said.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 12:38:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By weptek911:

Originally Posted By SilentType:

Originally Posted By weptek911:
As others have pointed out H&K sold a lot of EBR's here before Bush 41 banned them. I don't know why they would not sell a 416 upper here though. I guess they don't want to piss off the Nancy-boys in congress that have the power to send huge .mil contracts their way.




That has almost zip to do with it. Last I checked Colt and Fn Herstal are selling plenty of firearms to civilians.



Almost zip ? I said it was a "guess" .

I can't imagine any other wild reason. It seems to me they could get an American company to make H&K branded lowers and import the uppers and whatever parts needed that wouldn't violate 922r


FN doesn't sell AR15 based weapons. BTW


I know, but they do sell their other firearms and that fact hasn't presented even the slightest bump in the road to them gaining amazing contracts here.

HK could partner up with US companies or buy out smaller companies or merge with existing ones that lack an LEO/MIL component, but they suck at business just that simple.

I've dealt with Steyr Mannlicher over the years and some EU business folks just have this attitude that their firearms are so great they shouldn't have to do any work. EU companies also move as slow as mudd for the most part. Heck in Austria almost all of Steyr takes the entire month of August off for vacation for Pete's sake. I'm sure the folks in Germany are about the same.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 12:41:41 PM EST
You know the HK-people will come and get you when you least expect it. You'll never see the light of day again.

Personally I love the G3 and consider it to be a work of art.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 12:42:27 PM EST
Personally, I thought it was an excellent rant.

I've owned and still own HK stuff and I completely agree.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 1:22:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 1:53:31 PM EST by BB]
HK USP: For when you absolutely, positively have to be able to put your foot through the triggerguard
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 1:25:31 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 2:18:02 PM EST
For the most part I have to agree. I only have one HK product and its a USP compact 40 cal that is my daily carry pistol.

Is it the best pistol out there? I'm sure its not but it fits my hand like a glove and goes bang everytime.

I've been collecting guns for years and I have a little of everything from different manufacturers. I don't feel under gunned carrying either an AR15 built by Olympic arms or a PS90 from FN. Most of your major manufacturers build fine products but I do hate when people think one is so much better than another based simply on who made it.

A Ruger mini-14 may not be the best rifle on the market but believe me you wouldn't want someone shooting at you with it..lol
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 2:46:22 PM EST
Well if you're an HK fan thats cool.

You should be proud and confident of your firearm. In fact, I think that confidence can improve your ability to use your firearm. However, the truth is HK is toast unless they come out with something that will be able to match the SCAR, XCR, Masada, and other amazing firearms out there.

HK needs to come out with some amazing uber gun and the HK 416 as cool as it is isn't it.

Link Posted: 10/11/2007 3:04:07 PM EST
because the post is more directed at HK fanboys than HK itself.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 3:49:07 PM EST
Can you sum that up in about 2 sentences?
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:29:30 PM EST
I'm convinced that people who are obsessed with HK, do not shoot their guns. Also nearly half of them are closet 88's.

I agree with everything in that rant. I've owned HK's and I still own my USP 45, because it's my first pistol and I can't bear to part with it for sentimental reasons. I bought into the HK hype and learned from it.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 5:12:27 PM EST

Uh, German guns are expensive because they are made in Germany. Duh

So, why does a Walther P99 cost under $600?
As far as FN not making AR style weapons, don't they make M-16s for the US Military?
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 5:14:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Salmonaxe:
I'm convinced that people who are obsessed with HK, do not shoot their guns. Also nearly half of them are closet 88's.

I agree with everything in that rant. I've owned HK's and I still own my USP 45, because it's my first pistol and I can't bear to part with it for sentimental reasons. I bought into the HK hype and learned from it.


Come on now.

Why do we need to say that people who like German products are nazis?

I mean really, that is going WAY too far.

Link Posted: 10/11/2007 5:26:57 PM EST
reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw that said:

I hate things I don't understand.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 5:33:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By SilentType:

Originally Posted By Salmonaxe:
I'm convinced that people who are obsessed with HK, do not shoot their guns. Also nearly half of them are closet 88's.

I agree with everything in that rant. I've owned HK's and I still own my USP 45, because it's my first pistol and I can't bear to part with it for sentimental reasons. I bought into the HK hype and learned from it.


Come on now.

Why do we need to say that people who like German products are nazis?

I mean really, that is going WAY too far.



Well, I've just noticed that a whole lot of people seem to be "obsessed" with German engineered products. When those products are lacking good features to be "obsessed" about, then I have to come to the conclusion that it's the fact that it's "German", that obsesses them. To me, that just screams 88.

I know that Germany has a stigma associated with it. But that same stigma has this odd effect of drawing certain people in. I just don't understand why people are so obsessed with a group that got their asses handed to them by a bunch of "cowboys" with supposedly "inferior" arms.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 1:31:10 AM EST
hahah -- nice. That's kinda how I feel about HK as well. I actually read the whole post - it was entertaining.
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