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Posted: 7/8/2002 4:30:08 PM EST
Gunshop called HK today and they said they had them in stock and one is on the way as I type this.. I'm going to take it apart first thing and do the RIT dye solution to turn it into evil black carbine Anyone else have a USC and some good pics?
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 5:12:22 PM EST
An all black USC is a real nice looking gun. My only gripe is mag capacity. Still, congrats, H&K is tough to beat.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 5:12:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/8/2002 5:13:30 PM EST by SWS]
[austin powers voice] Yeah, baby!





edited to type better
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 5:19:19 PM EST
There is a another mag system for the USC. I forget who makes it, but it uses stick mags.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 5:42:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 5:55:06 PM EST
Expensive but worth it.

Excellent shooter.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 5:57:15 PM EST
Ya know.. I didn't even ask the price but aren't they like 1100?
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:01:59 PM EST
My local shop now wants $1199.

I paid a little less than that for mine.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 6:06:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 7:53:29 PM EST
can you take the little rubber pad off the back? if so you could carve out a space in it for the allen wrenchand pop it in the rubber then put the rubber pad back on.. an idea
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 8:34:14 PM EST
I LOVE MINE....... well worth the cash.



Link Posted: 7/8/2002 9:12:38 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 11:12:01 PM EST
You can do it yourself RBAD or send it to Keith.. I haven't made my mind up yet which i'm going to do.. I think HKPRO is down right now
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 2:33:50 AM EST
Do you have a link for how to turn a USC to black?


I'm considering this weapon. How much should I expect to pay?
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 3:07:24 AM EST
I can't really tell for sure but I don't think Buckaroo's is dyed. Looks more like bad lighting to me.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 7:14:12 AM EST
Good gun except....

Why with todays 10 round limit on magazines would you buy one of these 16" barreled guns that only shoots handgun ammo (.45)????

When if you could only buy a .223 with a 10 round magazine, utilizing a soft point or HP .223 bullet does WAYYYYY more damage on a human than does a .45ACP handgun bullet out of any sized barrel!

The USC looks cools, but thats about it. I actually think that one limits his or herself on what one can do with that gun. I'd rather have a good 1911 AND a AR-15 (where you can buy high cap mags here and there still) with a 16" barrel and do a better job at things.

It's kind of like some LEO departments that allow their officers to carry the MP-5 in SEMI-AUTO mode only. Well, what the heck is that any good for. It's just now a long barreled handgun in my opinion.

Sub guns were designed for full auto function. Not the Hk USC in semi auto form with a long worthless 16" civilianized barrel and 10 rounds of handgun (.45acp) ammo. Too bulky, and underpowered.

Just my own personal opinion. Doesn't mean that I'm an "expert".
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 9:09:38 AM EST
I'm getting it cuz it looks cool.. and I don't need another .223 at the moment.. plus it's made by HK and i've been bitten by the HK bug

Link Posted: 7/9/2002 9:23:48 AM EST
Jesus man, do all of our guns gotta be for killing people? (READ: Sarcasim) Can't we just have something for sporting purposes?
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 9:26:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/9/2002 9:26:53 AM EST by RBAD]
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 9:31:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hk45USP:
Good gun except....



I bought mine for no particular reason, except that I like to collect and shoot different types of firearms.

But now that you mention it, I wonder if this gun could be used in lieu of a home defense shotgun? The USC is very light, easy to point and wield, and has a very light recoil and very small muzzle flash. With the accessory rails, one could mount a dot sight and a tactical light.

I wouldn't want to be the home invader who takes a 230 grain bullet travelling at nearly 1000fps in the chest.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 9:34:36 AM EST
Hell I wouldn't wanna be the home invader to get pumped with 10 rounds out of a 10/22.. much less 230gr in the chest like SWS said
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 9:37:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hk45USP:
Good gun except....

It's kind of like some LEO departments that allow their officers to carry the MP-5 in SEMI-AUTO mode only. Well, what the heck is that any good for. It's just now a long barreled handgun in my opinion.

Sub guns were designed for full auto function. Not the Hk USC in semi auto form with a long worthless 16" civilianized barrel and 10 rounds of handgun (.45acp) ammo. Too bulky, and underpowered.

Just my own personal opinion. Doesn't mean that I'm an "expert".



Ummm, because the last thing anyone needs is "spray and pray" weapon in the hands of local law enforcement.

Using a carbine as opposed to a handgun, the only siginifigant advatnage is the longer sight radius. Most people are suddenly capable of very precise fire at 25yds, and pretty good accuracy at 50 yds.

Yes it is still just a pistol bullet.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 9:48:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 10:00:22 AM EST
I believe in WWII the Thompson was felt to be useful up to 100 yds out.

I would imagine that is still an good "effective" range, power, and accuracy potential considered.

Out of my old Remington Catalog

5" barrel .45 185 gr JHP +p

vel. ft lbs. traj.
1140...534....-
1040...445.....0.9"
971....387.....4.0"

muzzle/50 yds./100 yds.

for comparison a mil-spec(ish) FMJ
835....356.....-
800....326.....1.6"
767....300.....6.8"

I suspect you would see a noticable increase in velocity with a 16" barrel. But since this is pistol ammo there will be a point that velocity will actually start to go down as barrel lenght increases.
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 5:46:02 AM EST
OLY-M4gery........


"Ummm cause the last thing anyone needs is "spray and pray" weapon in the hands of local law enforcement."


Well guess what OLY???? Tell that to the LAPD officers during the North Hollywood bank robbery shoot out. Gimmie a break. Just because the politically correct anti gunning politicians say "cops don't need full auto", doesn't mean they are experts in urban law enforcement tactics.

Consider this. Even if the officers had a semi auto MP-5 (long barreled hand gun in my opinion) for that incident, it really wouldn't have worked well due to the fact the suspects were on the move and taking a well placed head shot on those guys would have been very very difficult. Especially because the suspects were wearing body armor on top of body armor on almost 95% of their bodies.

Even the SWAT guys that rolled up at the end had a difficult time taking down the last suspect when using full auto .223. They shot the guy in the feet multiple times.

I think a full auto in the hands of trainined officers can and does have a legitimate use for urban cops, under special circumstances. It's not just a weapon for SWAT.

Back to my original point....the USC is still a very long barreled semi auto handgun with a 10 round limit in my opinon.

Give me a 20, 25 or 30 round magazine and I'll take another look at the gun.

As far as just a fun sporting plinking gun,,,that's fine.

Link Posted: 7/10/2002 5:58:21 AM EST
I would buy it in a heartbeat if high cap mags were available.
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 6:14:24 AM EST
Pardon me for saying but some (I wont mention names but the guy who posted two [whose name starts with HK] above me is one of them) are so full of it. Pistol caliber carbines are effective self defense weapons even if you only get 10 shots. Hey as someone said a Ruger 10/22 can hurt a lot too especially is wielded well. Why do you think Russian Spetsnaz recently bought some silenced SV-99 rifles (.22LR) for their snipers? Cause it can kick ass if used well. Yes more power is good but anything will do, yes even a one shot .22 pen gun can kill you. So stop dissing the USC. It is not for you. Stick to your .223's. Some people live in places where over penetration and rounds flying through guys and through walls are nt that good. I'd like my targets to contain my bullet (Hey, if its lead then that=blood poisoning). That's all,
Doggonit

club.guns.ru/eng/sv99.html

SV-99 article (The gun uses straight bolt pullback like the SIG R93 and the LR2)
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 6:16:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
I would buy it in a heartbeat if high cap mags were available.



*Points at Cavalry Arms and their greasegun mag conversion thingy project.

Supposedly they are working on a stock that looks like the UMPs too.
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 6:44:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hk45USP:
Good gun except....

Why with todays 10 round limit on magazines would you buy one of these 16" barreled guns that only shoots handgun ammo (.45)????

When if you could only buy a .223 with a 10 round magazine, utilizing a soft point or HP .223 bullet does WAYYYYY more damage on a human than does a .45ACP handgun bullet out of any sized barrel!



There are times in life, where you don't want high velocity 5.56mm NATO flying about.

Plus, it's a carbine.
The M1 carbine shoots .30 cal.
For me, carbine means, pistol round.

I'm thinking about getting a USC, and waiting around for a good high cap conversion kit, and a non gay stock.

Oh yeah, and I'll dye her black of course.
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 7:00:33 AM EST
*Standing ovation* Bravo Spade well said! You tell those FF's (You don't want to know). Yes .223's can be dangerous when all that is between you and a friendly sleeping or something is a piece of drywall. You are probably the same SOB's who made fun of that German cop (On HKPRO.com) who deployed so fast that he was wearing the vest and helmet over shorts, shirt, and sandals. Listen you chariborne commandos: that guy is more pro than you will ever be or want to be. And also: Sandals are ok. They were good leather sandals.

Doggonit
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 7:07:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2002 7:10:22 AM EST by Juggernaut]
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 7:11:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2002 7:14:16 AM EST by Doggonit]

Originally Posted By Juggernaut:

Originally Posted By Doggonit:
*Yes .223's can be dangerous when all that is between you and a friendly sleeping or something is a piece of drywall.



Actually, 9mm and .45 are MORE likely to pentrate drywall and then hurt someone than .223 is. Along the same lines, you use birdshot in the shotgun for home defense, not slugs or Buckshot-the larger the projectile, the more stable it is. The more stable the bullet, the better chance it will penetrate drywall and hurt someone. I'm sure Troy or Tatjana can post stats,(don't have them here) but it's just one more reason LE are moving from pistol caliber long guns.

Juggernaut



Well mister wise guy you know that there are things called: Frangible and Hollowpoint ammo? (Less penetration) Also: I doubt birdshot is that good for home defense over penetration or not. Use #4 if you have to.

Doggonit
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 7:28:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2002 7:30:32 AM EST by Juggernaut]
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 7:31:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By Juggernaut:

Originally Posted By Doggonit:

Well mister wise guy you know that there are things called: Frangible and Hollowpoint ammo? (Less penetration) Also: I doubt birdshot is that good for home defense over penetration or not. Use #4 if you have to.

Doggonit hr


Frangible ammo, has been, so far, a joke. Hollowpoint pistol rounds still go through 2 layers of drywall like the proverbial hot knife through butter, and still have more mass and stability than the .223 upon exiting. Hence, they are more dangerous indoors.

And where's the damn bad attitude coming from, man? Surely the facts aren't causing you physical pain or anything?




Sorry, I didn't mean to sound that way. Its just that all those guys who have been tearing that German cop limb to limb on HKPRo.com for wearing sandals really pisses me off. I suggest you read it.

Doggonit
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 9:10:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2002 9:13:38 AM EST by JTR]
Well, if 10 rnd's isn't your thing, spring another $140 on the mag conversion. I get this great feeling walking around with 300 rnds of .45 in 10 mags, and another 50 rnds in 5 mags for my HK USP .45 Tac. I also get a REAL GOOD WORKOUT! (350 rnds of .45 is dang heavy when your walking around in the woods)!

And MAN is it fun dumping 30 rnd mags of .45! I can get around 8 or 9 brass cases in the air at one time with no prob:-).

Someday I'll have to take pic of my black USC w/30 rnders, Knight's grip, and ATN Ultra sight for you guys. It really is a blast to shoot. Before I got my Tac, the USC was my primary home defence gun. -Nice and quite, so I can still hear when I'm done.

WHen I bought it, I didn't care that it was a pistol cal. Or 10 rnd mags. I bought it because it was so freaking cool! (so are AR's, but EVERYONE and thier mother has a handlful of those).


Congrat's on the purchase Vermillion! I Rit dyed mine and would be happy to answer any Q's you may have.

-Justin

EDIT: Actually, I did care that it was a pistol cal. . .. I thought hmm. . .45. . . . drool. . . .
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 9:38:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2002 9:40:12 AM EST by Spade]

Originally Posted By JTR:
Well, if 10 rnd's isn't your thing, spring another $140 on the mag conversion.


Congrat's on the purchase Vermillion! I Rit dyed mine and would be happy to answer any Q's you may have.

-Justin




Spade's got questions.

How was the dye on the markings for the safety and all that?

How's the durability of the finish?

And, who's mag conversion did you get? Does it suck?

Oh yeah, and I wasn't the guy on HKPro defending the cop in sandals and all that.

Personally, I believe that in an emergency, whatever you show up in is good.

But then again, I wouldn't be caught dead in sandels.

Link Posted: 7/10/2002 10:19:54 AM EST
Hehe, I fell out of my chair with laughter when I saw that guy on HKPRO. He looks like he's wrapped in a god damn bomb blanket. Not to mention the odd expression. But of course, all laughing aside, if you are called upon then you show up in whatever is fastest.

BTW, Juggernaut is correct, cops are more or less trying to replace their subguns with 5.56 carbines. Much less penetration. However, I'd rather employ a .45 in a CQB situation because I just flat out don't trust the 5.56 that much. I"ve read of too many horror stories about the round. Blackhawk Down is a prime example.
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 11:08:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hk45USP:
OLY-M4gery........


"Ummm cause the last thing anyone needs is "spray and pray" weapon in the hands of local law enforcement."


Well guess what OLY???? Tell that to the LAPD officers during the North Hollywood bank robbery shoot out. Gimmie a break.



Are you trying to make this into a pissing contest??

Full auto, accordind to many GUN type people has very linited use, in the hands of a skilled operator. If your weapon is "too weak" for the job at hand full auto just means it's too weak with a high rate of fire.

The reason carbines are seen as a step up is that with minutes of training someon who is a so-so pistol shot can can fire pistol type rounds accurately at a much greater distance.

You are right it is a poor substitute for an AW, MBR, or a "sniper" rifle. But it is probably more useful than a handgun or shotgun in the 50-100yd range.

Also if you see that tape again....... look closely at the subject that "committed suicide". You'll see he jerks to different directions when he shoots. Supposedly there was a SWAT officer with an MP-5 taking shots at him from appx 100 yds. He is the one that disabled the suspects long gun by shooting it and also shot the suspect in the head, at the same time the suspect was shooting himself.
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 3:47:28 PM EST

I doubt birdshot is that good for home defense

You're incorrect. While it doesn't do much against body armor (though will still knock the hell out of someone in armor), against flesh, it digs a large, semi-shallow hole in the body... kinda looks like a large-mouthed animal chewed a hole. There's a lot of blood loss.
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 3:52:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2002 3:53:46 PM EST by Juggernaut]
Link Posted: 7/10/2002 6:11:19 PM EST
When I was a paramedic I ran a double shooting. Two kids about twelve years old shot at close range with bird shot. We were on scene within about six minutes of the call coming in, and it was called in by people who saw it happen. One kid was missing the right side of his neck, and most of his blood was already on the street. I called him on scene. The second was still breathing agonally, and the back of his head was mush. I intubated and transferred him thinking he might be an organ donor, but they called him at the hospital. Granted, it's only one anecdote, but at close range birdshot makes a pretty impressive wound.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 9:09:09 AM EST


Spade's got questions.

How was the dye on the markings for the safety and all that?

How's the durability of the finish?

And, who's mag conversion did you get? Does it suck?

Oh yeah, and I wasn't the guy on HKPro defending the cop in sandals and all that.

Personally, I believe that in an emergency, whatever you show up in is good.

But then again, I wouldn't be caught dead in sandels.



Hi Spade!

Well, as far as the markings, They look AWESOME! Looks like they were applied AFTER the die job. I think the died lower looks better than the lower I'm using for the conversion (which looks prety good as well, for a non-HK part).

The durability is far better than I expected. One thing, when you die it, you are supposed to rinse it and it should bleed of for 5-15 min or so. When I rinsed, there was NO bleeding. (I also died for twice the usual time. .. 2 hrs). Anyway, the 1st couple of times I cleaned it, anyware the cleaner got (MPRO7) the pathes would get grey. However, that stops before long, and I noticed no difference in the finish where I hit it with cleaner and where I didn't.

I've only put around 800 rnds through it since the die job, but where the bolt and carrier slides on the frame, I have noticed no "ware through" or anything. Also, the sling that slightly chews up the stock and the ejection port marks. . . none of those have gone through it. All I see is more black.

It is much better looking and more durrable than I thought it would be.

I have the Top Notch (SW) mag convesion. I don't think any others are out yet. It is much better than SW's rep would indicate, however, it could still be better. for $140 I was impressed. I do plan on using Tac. Excellence's convertion when it is available.

There is no reason why Todd couldn't have spent more time and done an ambi mag paddle release as on the origional lower. But, for AR guy's, the mag release should be fine as he has it (very simular position as AR's).


Also, service from SW was much better than expected. I also got the order EXACTLY when I was told I would. Actually, a half a week earily. . . .

As for the guy on HKPRO, I laughed at the picture too. I agree you don't want to waste time getting dressed in an emergency, but I also feel it's fine for people to have some fun laughing at a pic every now and then. . . shesh. . . .


TTYL,
Justin
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 9:25:27 AM EST
I would love to have a USC. Regarding why you would want to use 45 ACP over 223, think about how loud that 14.5" M-4 barrel is outdoors. Now think about shooting it indoors. Secondly, it would just be fun to shoot. Long range shots would be a hoot. You'd have to arc them in there. Now that the conversions are out, I may pick up and USC if I come into some money. Also I wish more US companies would make similar weapons. If cav arms, armalite or bushmaster were to make a similar weapon, it would be so fun and not stuck with the import restrictions like gay stocks. I wish a US company would make quality clones of some of the finer rifles out there. Sig 550's and Steyr Augs are probably quite inexpensive to manufacture, yet cost thousands for US shooters. If only some one would make quality clones of them.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 9:53:22 AM EST
I pardon you for your ignorance but making clones requires licenses and inspections and a pile of shit that few people would waste time and money on not knowing if they will turn a profit or not. By the way, I know tat SIG rifles aren't cheap to make and I am sure the same is true about AUG's. Fine pieces of machinery (like HK's) take time and materials which raises the price. Go forth and sin no more my brother...

Doggonit
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 10:39:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By Doggonit:
Pardon me for saying but some (I wont mention names but the guy who posted two [whose name starts with HK] above me is one of them) are so full of it. Pistol caliber carbines are effective self defense weapons even if you only get 10 shots. Hey as someone said a Ruger 10/22 can hurt a lot too especially is wielded well. Why do you think Russian Spetsnaz recently bought some silenced SV-99 rifles (.22LR) for their snipers? Cause it can kick ass if used well. Yes more power is good but anything will do, yes even a one shot .22 pen gun can kill you. So stop dissing the USC. It is not for you. Stick to your .223's. Some people live in places where over penetration and rounds flying through guys and through walls are nt that good. I'd like my targets to contain my bullet (Hey, if its lead then that=blood poisoning). That's all,
Doggonit

club.guns.ru/eng/sv99.html

SV-99 article (The gun uses straight bolt pullback like the SIG R93 and the LR2)



I'll already a known fact on this board that .45 with penetrate MORE then .223 against hard targets.

I do agree that the USC would be an AWESOME home defense weapon!!

Some quality JHP rounds with a surefire, you'd have a pretty sweet PC home defense weapon.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 10:45:53 AM EST

However, I'd rather employ a .45 in a CQB situation because I just flat out don't trust the 5.56 that much. I"ve read of too many horror stories about the round. Blackhawk Down is a prime example.



OMFG!!
When does it END!!!
Keep comments like this to yourself please.

Actually, this has to be a joke.
Sorry, Where'd my sense of humor go.
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 10:49:19 AM EST
Could you guys imagine the cool shit that HK would be putting out if they could sell whatever they wanted on the US market?
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 11:00:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By juslearnin:
When I was a paramedic I ran a double shooting. Two kids about twelve years old shot at close range with bird shot. We were on scene within about six minutes of the call coming in, and it was called in by people who saw it happen. One kid was missing the right side of his neck, and most of his blood was already on the street. I called him on scene. The second was still breathing agonally, and the back of his head was mush. I intubated and transferred him thinking he might be an organ donor, but they called him at the hospital. Granted, it's only one anecdote, but at close range birdshot makes a pretty impressive wound.



Yes indeed. I'll try to say this without starting a shotgun vs. ____ for CQB.

Whoever said birdshot isn't anygood for self defense is a retard that doesn't shoot shotguns.
Have you ever seen spray patterns before?

With #6 shot, my 18.5" Benelli will produce a nice softball size hole all the way out to 15 to 20 feet. This is likely in-home engaugement ranges and the shotty just can't be beat!!
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 11:19:06 AM EST
I've heard of professions who would rather use #6 steel shot at ranges of 5-8 yards.


BTW MurderSHO45, it wasn't a joke. It is a personal opinion of mine that will likely never change. the .45ACP is easily my favorite 'close in round'. To me I see the 5.56 round best employed in an urban sniper platform. And of course for police CQB so as to avoid over penetration in populated areas. Thankfully though, over penetration is not a concern for me so I'm willing to upgrade to something that's gonna knock Mr. BadGuy on his ass. Doesn't mean I don't like the 5.56 though. It certainly is a dandy little target round.

Link Posted: 7/11/2002 11:57:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By Corporal_Chaos:
I've heard of professions who would rather use #6 steel shot at ranges of 5-8 yards.


BTW MurderSHO45, it wasn't a joke. It is a personal opinion of mine that will likely never change. the .45ACP is easily my favorite 'close in round'. To me I see the 5.56 round best employed in an urban sniper platform. And of course for police CQB so as to avoid over penetration in populated areas. Thankfully though, over penetration is not a concern for me so I'm willing to upgrade to something that's gonna knock Mr. BadGuy on his ass. Doesn't mean I don't like the 5.56 though. It certainly is a dandy little target round.




I'm a .45 lover as well!
You are also entitled to your opinion (I love this country) and most deffiently entitled to your choice of caliber.

But I think you should open your eyes alittle more and read up on some facts.

Handgun rounds are just not effective stoppers!
The comment about the .45 "knocking some on their ass" is nothing more then a person proud of their cartridge selection.

BTW, that .45 sure makes a dandy little target round as well!
Link Posted: 7/11/2002 12:18:41 PM EST
Well, I'm glad you see my point. However, (I love these howevers) I think you saying "The comment about the .45 'knocking some on their ass' is nothing more then a person proud of their cartridge selection." is a bit unfounded. Go talk to a vet that has used his .45 sidearm to fend of a Bonzai attack. I think it would put it into perspective for you.
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