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10/30/2020 2:42:12 PM
Green is better (Page 3 of 4)
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Link Posted: 10/3/2020 8:54:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2020 3:02:13 PM EST by ARShooter91]
What do you think, darling? Should I hate WP?

You don't even know WP.

Yes, but there's just something about it. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... old TVs. No. I'm sure of it, I hate WP.



Ok on a serious note I did get some more time behind the Elbit WP. With very little ambient light it's a wash, anything thing from star light to full moon I take GP over WP everytime. I messed with the gain a lot this time and prefer the gain turned way down on the WP.

Moon was behind clouds for the most part and we were in relatively think wooded area.
Link Posted: 10/3/2020 9:59:24 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARShooter91:
What do you think, darling? Should I hate WP?

You don't even know WP.

Yes, but there's just something about it. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... old TVs.No. I'm sure of it, I hate WP.

View Quote


Yes, 100% reminds me of old TV’s. Nothing better than walking around in a world that looks like a old black and white
Link Posted: 10/3/2020 10:33:15 AM EST
Thanks to all for contributions to this thread.
Sgd,
NV newb embarking on first search

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tlandoe07:


I’m a CPT and prefer green
View Quote

Congratulations in order. Such a distinction should make you CPT(P).

Link Posted: 10/3/2020 4:15:44 PM EST
I’ve got some L3 filmless green RNVGs on the way. This thread made me more confident in my choice
Link Posted: 10/3/2020 5:13:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2020 4:28:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2020 4:50:41 PM EST by ARShooter91]
Setup a short "trail shoot" to stretch capabilities without IR. 3 targets from 10-20yards









Middle 2 are the same target. You can barely see it from the hill at 20yards or so and again up close a bit under 10yards.

I'll update pics at night with ir then I'll do pics with no ir.

Tubes will be:

ITT F9800TG

L3 M890AV

Elbit F9415M

L3 UG-SA-C00-1597
Link Posted: 10/4/2020 6:11:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2020 6:16:03 PM EST by will-1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARShooter91:
Setup a short "trail shoot" to stretch capabilities without IR. 3 targets from 10-20yards

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201004_174257-1620199.jpg

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201004_174310-1620200.jpg

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201004_174331-1620201.jpg

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201004_174440-1620203.jpg

Middle 2 are the same target. You can barely see it from the hill at 20yards or so and again up close a bit under 10yards.

I'll update pics at night with ir then I'll do pics with no ir.

Tubes will be:

ITT F9800TG

L3 M890AV

Elbit F9415M

L3 UG-SA-C00-1597
View Quote


Nice  looking forward to it

ETA: here's an L3 M890 focus is set to infinity so it's not super sharp on the Rhino but these tubes are great. Light is from the moon just coming up.

Link Posted: 10/4/2020 6:20:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2020 6:21:54 PM EST by ARShooter91]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By will-1:


Nice  looking forward to it

ETA: here's an L3 M890 focus is set to infinity so it's not super sharp on the Rhino but these tubes are great. Light is from the moon just coming up.
https://i.ibb.co/THzPCzR/E3-F8-F065-9-E67-473-E-A0-C4-99-CD3-AB92989.jpg
View Quote


That's in a -14 right? After talking to ya I'll do this with each target before the night pics.

Link Posted: 10/4/2020 6:50:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARShooter91:


That's in a -14 right? After talking to ya I'll do this with each target before the night pics.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201004_184500-1620347.jpg
View Quote


Yessir, in a proper -14 (Carson glass)

Try to get the pics before the moon is up and after.
Link Posted: 10/7/2020 2:48:13 PM EST
Thought I'd kick this thread back up to the top. I thought I'd share this while we're waiting for GP unfilmed pics.

We see a lot that FOM isn't the be all end all etc. but it's still pretty damn important especially a high SNR. Aviation going the high FOM route also says a lot.

Interestingly, the USAF is ordering both GP and WP unfilmed and ASU-NVG doesn't call out mfg or whether the tubes are unfilmed or filmed which leads me to think they're using Elbit. There's also a link to a white paper on WP on the ASU-NVG page.

ASU-NVG 2376 FOM minimum WP

USAF high FOM unfilmed WP & GP

Link Posted: 10/7/2020 3:17:26 PM EST
Here's one for now, I need to get better pictures. Also was waiting on a more overcast night. Picture was compressed to fit file size. Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 10/7/2020 3:25:31 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Blackhalo:
Here's one for now, I need to get better pictures. Also was waiting on a more overcast night. Picture was compressed to fit file size. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/160877/20201007_140858_compress60_jpg-1624994.JPG
View Quote


I do have to say, seeing green in a DTNVG is weird.
Link Posted: 10/7/2020 4:03:37 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:


Ok, after pulling the sheets. (No, I'm not gonna list them all with redactions, it would be a loooong thread! LoL)

EBI .6 Average
HALO .7 Average

L3/Harris is continuing to produce the best tubes we have ever seen in the 15 years of offering high end NV gear. Now if they can just keep up with demand.
View Quote

This gives me great confidence and creates a ton of anxiety because of the long wait. That said, I'm sure the wait will be worth it. I am literally like a kid at Christmas right now.
Link Posted: 10/7/2020 5:07:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Blackhalo:
Here's one for now, I need to get better pictures. Also was waiting on a more overcast night. Picture was compressed to fit file size. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/160877/20201007_140858_compress60_jpg-1624994.JPG
View Quote


Looks clean!

What are your specs?
Link Posted: 10/7/2020 5:15:59 PM EST
Ill be grabbing some tonight as well!
Link Posted: 10/7/2020 5:17:27 PM EST
Purple is better.
Link Posted: 10/7/2020 5:20:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARShooter91:


Looks clean!

What are your specs?
View Quote


0.2/0.3 ebi
64lpmm
35.8/35.2 SN
0.8/0.7halo
64037/60281 gain
2215/2522 PCR

Thanks man. I'm going to get some more, not a real good picture. When are yours getting posted up?

I'll also say this, with my eyes GP looks a decent amount more green in pictures then it does to me in person. That was my wife's first comment after trying them as well. Kinda odd, I figured it was just me.
Link Posted: 10/7/2020 6:08:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2020 7:07:45 PM EST by ARShooter91]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Blackhalo:


0.2/0.3 ebi
64lpmm
35.8/35.2 SN
0.8/0.7halo
64037/60281 gain
2215/2522 PCR

Thanks man. I'm going to get some more, not a real good picture. When are yours getting posted up?

I'll also say this, with my eyes GP looks a decent amount more green in pictures then it does to me in person. That was my wife's first comment after trying them as well. Kinda odd, I figured it was just me.
View Quote


Those are fantastic! About as good as you could ask for matched tubes. Edit I guess the PC could be closer, don't see it being an issue though.

Yeah the only time GP looks as green as the pictures online are when I go from WP to GP lol

I'll try to get some tonight. My $200 phone doesn't do well in low light.

Here is what the blems look like. Don't mind the little squigglys, those are not blems. It's been in the shoebox on for about 20hrs and is improving!



10160UG anvis glass


Elbit WP 14 glass


ITT 9800 anvis glass


M890 14 glass


These were all taken within 5 min of each other and before the moon was up. The 9800s were struggling.
Link Posted: 10/7/2020 6:44:05 PM EST
really holding out hope for those uniflmed greens. If you're able to fix them, I'm gonna be jealous!
Link Posted: 10/7/2020 7:09:37 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tlandoe07:
really holding out hope for those uniflmed greens. If you're able to fix them, I'm gonna be jealous!
View Quote


I'm pretty optimistic seeing a noticable improvement already!

@Blackhalo

Did you just order and get those specs or specify them?
Link Posted: 10/7/2020 8:22:30 PM EST
What's broken with the unfilmed green tubes?  

Does someone have a source for used unfilmed green tubes?  As I have what seems to be an OMNI 7 super tube, green Photonis Intens, and green Photonis ECHO tube.  All I need is an unfilmed green tube to complete my collection and make a super fun comparison!
Link Posted: 10/8/2020 6:22:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2020 6:36:52 AM EST by Synyster06Gates]
Here are a few shots of my filmless 1701 GP DTNVGs

57 res
35.3 SNR
0.4 EBI
0.9 Halo
2257 PCS
63296 gain

In the long distance shot, the cow is about 350 yards out.






Link Posted: 10/8/2020 7:53:51 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Synyster06Gates:
Here are a few shots of my filmless 1701 GP DTNVGs

57 res
35.3 SNR
0.4 EBI
0.9 Halo
2257 PCS
63296 gain

In the long distance shot, the cow is about 350 yards out.

https://i.imgur.com/hfCXdWF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JapYzB8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Hg5Zdwj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/MruBaaq.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KyMSfJl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3oLbHmx.jpg
View Quote


Awesome pics, you post good Nod pics lol

You should throw up some WP filmless to compare!
Link Posted: 10/8/2020 8:30:13 AM EST
Fuck now i want filmless greenies lol.  Always enjoyed green and white, not enough time on white to say 100% i would take over green yet.  Green has been soft on the eyes for the long nights in the woods so far.
Link Posted: 10/8/2020 8:56:58 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARShooter91:


Awesome pics, you post good Nod pics lol

You should throw up some WP filmless to compare!
View Quote


Haha I'll throw those pics up in my big WP comparison thread.

I do have a high spec 14 coming from TNVC at some point - so as soon as that comes in maybe I'll be able to compare. Not gonna lie I'll probably end up selling the DTNVGs for what I got them for after that happens. Duals are nice and all, but I really do prefer a mono for weight and ease of use
Link Posted: 10/8/2020 10:16:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2020 10:17:22 AM EST by will-1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Synyster06Gates:


Haha I'll throw those pics up in my big WP comparison thread.

I do have a high spec 14 coming from TNVC at some point - so as soon as that comes in maybe I'll be able to compare. Not gonna lie I'll probably end up selling the DTNVGs for what I got them for after that happens. Duals are nice and all, but I really do prefer a mono for weight and ease of use
View Quote


@Synyster06Gates
I can't tell from the pics. Is there any difference in color between unfilmed and filmed (L3)?
!
ETA: They look great!
Link Posted: 10/8/2020 10:38:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2020 10:38:58 AM EST by Badger52]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Synyster06Gates:
Here are a few shots of my filmless 1701 GP DTNVGs

57 res
35.3 SNR
0.4 EBI
0.9 Halo
2257 PCS
63296 gain

In the long distance shot, the cow is about 350 yards out.
View Quote
Just. Wow.
And THANK YOU for taking the time.
Link Posted: 10/8/2020 10:42:33 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By will-1:


@Synyster06Gates
I can't tell from the pics. Is there any difference in color between unfilmed and filmed (L3)?
!
ETA: They look great!
View Quote

I'd say the filmless is a warmer tone, but the colors are pretty similar overall. They're both pretty good units! Shows that's 57 resolution is nothing to worry about on a helmet mounted setup.
Link Posted: 10/8/2020 10:56:17 AM EST
You take amazing pictures sir
Link Posted: 10/8/2020 11:49:55 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Synyster06Gates:
Here are a few shots of my filmless 1701 GP DTNVGs

57 res
35.3 SNR
0.4 EBI
0.9 Halo
2257 PCS
63296 gain

In the long distance shot, the cow is about 350 yards out.

https://i.imgur.com/hfCXdWF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JapYzB8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Hg5Zdwj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/MruBaaq.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KyMSfJl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3oLbHmx.jpg
View Quote


What are you using to take those photos? If that's a cell phone, that's impressive
Link Posted: 10/8/2020 11:50:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2020 11:57:43 AM EST by Synyster06Gates]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tlandoe07:


What are you using to take those photos? If that's a cell phone, that's impressive
View Quote


Yes sir, cell phone. OnePlus 8 Pro

It's got a pro shooting mode that allows me to take pictures in RAW for postprocessing, I can lock the WB, focus, exposure, shutter speed, etc as needed.

That said, I just left it on auto last night.
Link Posted: 10/8/2020 4:20:31 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Synyster06Gates:


Haha I'll throw those pics up in my big WP comparison thread.

I do have a high spec 14 coming from TNVC at some point - so as soon as that comes in maybe I'll be able to compare. Not gonna lie I'll probably end up selling the DTNVGs for what I got them for after that happens. Duals are nice and all, but I really do prefer a mono for weight and ease of use
View Quote


What is "high spec"? Haha
Link Posted: 10/8/2020 5:12:05 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARShooter91:


What is "high spec"? Haha
View Quote


72 res, 35+ SNR, and sub 0.5 halo and EBI I think was what I requested.
Link Posted: 10/8/2020 9:18:16 PM EST
@will-1

Ok man these unfilmed tubes are growing on me. Messing around on my Pioneer with no IR and it's nice.
Link Posted: 10/8/2020 9:45:20 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARShooter91:
@will-1

Ok man these unfilmed tubes are growing on me. Messing around on my Pioneer with no IR and it's nice.
View Quote


Any improvement with the shoe box trick?
Link Posted: 10/8/2020 10:09:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By will-1:


Any improvement with the shoe box trick?
View Quote


Maybe, it's hard to tell. 48 hours in at this point. They are easy to miss if you're not looking for them. It's also easy to use the bottom 2/3s of the tube and keep the blems in your peripheral. They fade a lot in higher light.
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 8:38:48 AM EST




Little better after about 100hrs in the shoebox. They really disappear well for the size they are.
Link Posted: 10/11/2020 9:44:28 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARShooter91:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201011_093436-1630426.jpg

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201011_093511-1630428.jpg

Little better after about 100hrs in the shoebox. They really disappear well for the size they are.
View Quote


Oh man, yeah those have definitely faded. In case anyone is wondering what they used to look like: Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 10/12/2020 11:48:29 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tlandoe07:


Oh man, yeah those have definitely faded. In case anyone is wondering what they used to look like: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/460535/D31B5062-10B7-457E-B3E0-A07B0A1CFCA5_jpe-1630486.JPG

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/460535/710AC093-47AE-4720-9409-8DC239206251_jpe-1630488.JPG
View Quote


I'm happy with them! The cosmetics are fantastic.
Link Posted: 11/2/2020 4:19:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2020 4:32:44 PM EST by ARShooter91]
Photonis Intens last night. It is definitely darker than gen 3 tubes but that's not necessarily a bad thing IMO.(It can be at times) I like the color over Elbits WP.





The screen cosmetics are better than any thin filmed unit I've looked through.
Link Posted: 11/2/2020 4:32:37 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARShooter91:
Photonis Intens last night. It is definitely darker than gen 3 tubes but that's not necessarily a bad thing IMO.(It can be at times) I like the color over Elbits WP.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201102_161729-1665830.jpg

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201102_161810-1665831.jpg
View Quote


So this begs the question - Do you still think green is better?
Link Posted: 11/2/2020 4:36:17 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By will-1:


So this begs the question - Do you still think green is better?
View Quote


Ha this may start to sway me lol. I definitely prefer this Intens over an Elbit. It's very easy on the eyes and produces a great image. The premium that L3s WP units are fetching will keep me away for now.
Link Posted: 11/2/2020 5:29:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARShooter91:


Ha this may start to sway me lol. I definitely prefer this Intens over an Elbit. It's very easy on the eyes and produces a great image. The premium that L3s WP units are fetching will keep me away for now.
View Quote


In that case, you'll really dig L3H unfilmed WP. It's a better color by far of all three.
Link Posted: 11/2/2020 6:36:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Synyster06Gates:
Here are a few shots of my filmless 1701 GP DTNVGs

57 res
35.3 SNR
0.4 EBI
0.9 Halo
2257 PCS
63296 gain

In the long distance shot, the cow is about 350 yards out.

https://i.imgur.com/hfCXdWF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JapYzB8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Hg5Zdwj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/MruBaaq.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KyMSfJl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3oLbHmx.jpg
View Quote

Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 11/2/2020 6:38:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2020 6:47:14 PM EST by lilMAC25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARShooter91:
Photonis Intens last night. It is definitely darker than gen 3 tubes but that's not necessarily a bad thing IMO.(It can be at times) I like the color over Elbits WP.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201102_161729-1665830.jpg

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201102_161810-1665831.jpg

The screen cosmetics are better than any thin filmed unit I've looked through.
View Quote

I “semi famously” had a set of those. They were stunning.

I wish I could play with a set of high spec UF in any color.
Link Posted: 11/2/2020 7:08:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARShooter91:


Ha this may start to sway me lol. I definitely prefer this Intens over an Elbit. It's very easy on the eyes and produces a great image. The premium that L3s WP units are fetching will keep me away for now.
View Quote


You could probably get an Echo and run the Intens on your dominant eye. The color should be the same.
Link Posted: 11/2/2020 7:17:47 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By will-1:


You could probably get an Echo and run the Intens on your dominant eye. The color should be the same.
View Quote


Hmm, that'd probably work. I'm blown away at how clean the image is. With a full moon it definitely has a better image than any of my gen 3 stuff. The unfilmed GP is doing too good a job with a full moon.
Link Posted: 11/2/2020 7:31:57 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARShooter91:


Hmm, that'd probably work. I'm blown away at how clean the image is. With a full moon it definitely has a better image than any of my gen 3 stuff. The unfilmed GP is doing too good a job with a full moon.
View Quote


I was pleasantly surprised with the Echo I had. The only thing I didn't like it about it was the darker image vs gen 3 but that was before I had anvis objectives, so maybe I'd feel differently now, I don't know.

The luminance gain of the tube was 9379, which is probably lower than your Intens, so if you were to do it I'd look for one with a number closer to yours. Try to get a similar output brightness too. The other specs were solid at 67 res & 31 SNR.
Link Posted: 11/2/2020 7:36:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2020 7:38:20 PM EST by ARShooter91]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By will-1:


I was pleasantly surprised with the Echo I had. The only thing I didn't like it about it was the darker image vs gen 3 but that was before I had anvis objectives, so maybe I'd feel differently now, I don't know.

The luminance gain of the tube was 9379, which is probably lower than your Intens, so if you were to do it I'd look for one with a number closer to yours. Try to get a similar output brightness too. The other specs were solid at 67 res & 31 SNR.
View Quote


Yep it is

Luminance gain 11920
SNR 30.3
Res 69

Not sure what the halo is but it's really small.

Image alignment .2

Useful cathode diameter > 17.5

These both measure in mm
Link Posted: 11/15/2020 5:48:05 PM EST
I now have had time behind thin filmed GP, thin filmed WP, filmless GP, filmless WP, and Photonis Intens. GP filmless is my favorite but any will do the job.

I'd like to have manual gain on everything although GP IMO doesn't need it as much as WP. The slightly darker Intens never seems too bright and it shows with little scintillation. Manual gain is a must have in both WP Elbit thin filmed and WP L3 filmless.
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Green is better (Page 3 of 4)
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