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Posted: 4/17/2014 7:37:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2014 11:30:56 AM EDT by AZ_Mike]
What is the chance of the American made barrel being concentric? Will the Czech front sight block give square spacing?
I have drill rods for safety checks I just don't want to waste my money.

I'm looking at this unit for use with my AAC Cyclone (this particular version of the VZ is 14x1mm RH not LH: http://www.cncwarrior.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=25796

Mike

PS. Not sure where this forum's culture is on terminology. I made a point to call them "supressors" for years but now that I actually collect them I usually use the legal term now. Plus it avoids having to add (Flash or Sound) to avoid ambiguity.
Link Posted: 4/17/2014 10:09:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2014 10:10:29 AM EDT by new21022]
Originally Posted By AZ_Mike:
What is the chance of the American made barrel being concentric? Will the Check front sight block give square spacing?
I have drill rods for safety checks I just don't want to waste my money.

I'm looking at this unit for use with my AAC Cyclone (this particular version of the VZ is 14x1mm RH not LH: http://www.cncwarrior.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=25796

Mike

PS. Not sure where this forum's culture is on terminology. I made a point to call them "supressors" for years but now that I actually collect them I usually use the legal term now. Plus it avoids having to add (Flash or Sound) to avoid ambiguity.
View Quote


No one can tell you if your barrel is concentric, doesn't matter where it was made. Painstakingly hand made in a secret Swiss factory on the top of the alps by the worlds greatest machinists... It could still be eccentric.

The VZ58 is awesome, definitely an improvement over the AK47... However... You're going to have very similar issues as any suppressed AK, the piston is going to vent to atmosphere very soon after it starts to move. This will be loud. The action will unlock faster, cyclic rate will increase, this too will be loud. It will be loud. It's still cool.... but have I mentioned it might be louder than you're expecting?

As to the terminology... They're the same fucking thing. It doesn't matter what it's called. Anyone that argues Suppressor over Silencer can immediately be ignored as a complete tool. Don't try and appease anyone esp since most people get it wrong. The ATF calls and Maxim called them silencers. People insisting they're only to be called "Suppressors" are just playing a "correctness" game that cannot be won. Call them whatever you like.
Link Posted: 4/17/2014 11:34:56 AM EDT
I was not aware of the issue with respect to the piston and venting. The gun was bought as kind of a beater/truck gun. I have a lot of suppressed ARs and other guns. I have done great with concentricity (dead center with Colt and other AR barrel makers, Lone Wolf, etc), not perfect but still very safe with AR Stoner and S&W. I haven't found a factory or aftermarket barrel that was not good enough to avoid risking a baffle strike.

It might not even be worth trying given the other issues, however.

Mike
Link Posted: 4/17/2014 12:40:08 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AZ_Mike:
I was not aware of the issue with respect to the piston and venting. The gun was bought as kind of a beater/truck gun. I have a lot of suppressed ARs and other guns. I have done great with concentricity (dead center with Colt and other AR barrel makers, Lone Wolf, etc), not perfect but still very safe with AR Stoner and S&W. I haven't found a factory or aftermarket barrel that was not good enough to avoid risking a baffle strike.

It might not even be worth trying given the other issues, however.

Mike
View Quote


Can't say if it's worth trying or not.... Except that I never actually seen anyone suppress TWO aks. That is, seen people do it once, never seen it done twice ;)

They look cool though! I personally wouldn't do it though.
Link Posted: 4/17/2014 2:13:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2014 2:15:26 PM EDT by AZ_Mike]
These videos make me wonder if the short stroke piston is as loud as the long-stroke AK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZNPNKs6FZ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_FDe2fRpDM (around the 1:00 min mark and again at 1:44, 3:32).

These vids make me think I may be ear safe and should drop the $15 + shipping. I'll follow up with how it goes.

Mike


Link Posted: 4/18/2014 8:54:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2014 9:23:52 AM EDT by new21022]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AZ_Mike:
These videos make me wonder if the short stroke piston is as loud as the long-stroke AK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZNPNKs6FZ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_FDe2fRpDM (around the 1:00 min mark and again at 1:44, 3:32).

These vids make me think I may be ear safe and should drop the $15 + shipping. I'll follow up with how it goes.

Mike

View Quote


Ok, first of all, don't EVER listen to a video of silencers and make determination on ANYTHING. Videos are absolute trash compared to being there first hand. You can make a loud suppressor seem quiet, and a quiet suppressor seem loud in a video. Don't get caught up in that at all. If you ever see the words "well, the video sure sounds impressive"... Turn the other way.

Second, a properly gassed DI AR is about the quietest platform rifle platform I've heard suppressed... And IT is still not hearing safe. Maybe a 20" AR with correct gassing is, but at the shooter's ear I'm skeptical. There is ABSOLUTELY ZERO POSSIBLE WAY IN HELL that any AK-like design will be hearing safe. Not even sort of. I can unequivocally tell you it will NEVER be hearing safe even in the best possible case that it suppresseses far better than the AK.
Link Posted: 4/18/2014 11:07:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2014 11:08:17 AM EDT by AZ_Mike]
Puzzled by the intensity of your response. I'm giving the video $15 worth or credibility in trying an adapter for a suppressor I already own. Volume is totally arbitrary. I was not listening to sound level but sound character particularly the relative intensity of the "crack" vs. the "boom".
I've seen lots of professional measurements on calibrated equipment showing 16" ARs being ear safe <140dB. Not sure what ear safe is for a middle aged man who drives with the windows down and stereo up but my ARs are totally non-fatiguing to the ear.

Mike
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 9:29:01 AM EDT
The point is mute. Silencer is misaligned and thread parallelism of the Century barrel is the issue. I won't find our how well it shoots suppressed. I'm now the proud owner of a $15 5/8-24 muzzle device adapter . . .
I have no intent to throw money at my VZ. That is the not the role I had in mind for it.

Mike
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 4:31:16 PM EDT
Get a Kestrel
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 4:58:26 PM EDT
I have an M92 SBR that suppresses pretty well. The can was made by Red Jacket gasp! This was before they were famous and the can works pretty good. I haven't tried it on anything else since the M92 has a unique attachment. It just replace the flash hider and locks in flush with the detent.
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 7:33:28 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AZ_Mike:
Puzzled by the intensity of your response. I'm giving the video $15 worth or credibility in trying an adapter for a suppressor I already own. Volume is totally arbitrary. I was not listening to sound level but sound character particularly the relative intensity of the "crack" vs. the "boom".
I've seen lots of professional measurements on calibrated equipment showing 16" ARs being ear safe <140dB. Not sure what ear safe is for a middle aged man who drives with the windows down and stereo up but my ARs are totally non-fatiguing to the ear.

Mike
View Quote


You know what... On second thought....

YES. Do suppress your VZ58. It will sound like a piston AR I'm sure.

ALSO, buy a Kestrel... That seems like a great pair. One thing is for sure, it'll look great.
Link Posted: 4/26/2014 5:40:09 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By new21022:


You know what... On second thought....

YES. Do suppress your VZ58. It will sound like a piston AR I'm sure.

ALSO, buy a Kestrel... That seems like a great pair. One thing is for sure, it'll look great.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By new21022:
Originally Posted By AZ_Mike:
Puzzled by the intensity of your response. I'm giving the video $15 worth or credibility in trying an adapter for a suppressor I already own. Volume is totally arbitrary. I was not listening to sound level but sound character particularly the relative intensity of the "crack" vs. the "boom".
I've seen lots of professional measurements on calibrated equipment showing 16" ARs being ear safe <140dB. Not sure what ear safe is for a middle aged man who drives with the windows down and stereo up but my ARs are totally non-fatiguing to the ear.

Mike


You know what... On second thought....

YES. Do suppress your VZ58. It will sound like a piston AR I'm sure.

ALSO, buy a Kestrel... That seems like a great pair. One thing is for sure, it'll look great.


My AK 106-fr is as quiet, if not quieter than my AA AR. Of course suppression of sound is subjective.
Link Posted: 4/26/2014 5:41:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/26/2014 11:55:37 AM EDT by jim]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By new21022:


Can't say if it's worth trying or not.... Except that I never actually seen anyone suppress TWO aks. That is, seen people do it once, never seen it done twice ;)

They look cool though! I personally wouldn't do it though.
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Originally Posted By new21022:
Originally Posted By AZ_Mike:
I was not aware of the issue with respect to the piston and venting. The gun was bought as kind of a beater/truck gun. I have a lot of suppressed ARs and other guns. I have done great with concentricity (dead center with Colt and other AR barrel makers, Lone Wolf, etc), not perfect but still very safe with AR Stoner and S&W. I haven't found a factory or aftermarket barrel that was not good enough to avoid risking a baffle strike.

It might not even be worth trying given the other issues, however.

Mike


Can't say if it's worth trying or not.... Except that I never actually seen anyone suppress TWO aks. That is, seen people do it once, never seen it done twice ;)

They look cool though! I personally wouldn't do it though.



Come out to CO, when we shoot there are are least 3 suppressed AK's . Halo on one 7.62 ssd??on another and AAC M4 on the 3rd.
Link Posted: 4/26/2014 10:43:52 AM EDT
Mike if your in southern AZ send me a PM, I'd be happy to let you try my setup.
Link Posted: 4/26/2014 12:27:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/26/2014 12:33:26 PM EDT by AZ_Mike]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By az_larry:
Mike if your in southern AZ send me a PM, I'd be happy to let you try my setup.
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Larry, are you near Tucson? I live and work in the PHX area, have a cabin on Mt. Graham and a future home site near Prescott so I've got Central, SE, and North Central covered :)

Jim, I have family in North Denver and Frederick. One of these summers (though probably not this one, I want to hike and camp in RMNP). This year I'm saving my vacation to pad my next sabbatical.

I have plenty of hosts 5.56/300BLK/7.62 and lots of project irons in the fire. Not going to spend the money rebarreling the VZ. I gambled $15 on the threads being parallel and concentric and lost.

MIke,
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