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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 7/15/2002 3:12:31 PM EST
I am an NRA Instructor, and often teach new shooters handgun techniques. I also need to improve my own shooting ability. Therefore, a 22lr pistol seems like an obvious choice. I'd like a revolver (just so there's no slide or ejected brass), but they're running $500+?! So, I've settled on a semi.

I'd like a stainless/nickel finish, ~4" barrel, easy to clean (so I use it often) and reliable. Here's what I've thought of the options:

* Browning Buckmark: Love 'em. Pros: Easy to clean, easy on the eye, good price (~$250-350). Cons: Can't find any worth buying. Have been looking for months.

* Ruger Mark II or 22/45: Pros: attainable, good price (~$250-$350), been around forever. Reliable design. Cons: Really tough to clean, anything Ruger makes lasts ~2 days before rusting. Still don't like buying Ruger.

I still can't bring myself to buy a S&W. What do you guys recommend? Anybody know of any good sources for a Browning Buckmark?

I also have .223 suppressors, and will consider getting a threaded bull barrel. It would allow me to plink all day without anyone even knowing it. Any advice is appreciated.

Black Fox
Link Posted: 7/15/2002 3:52:17 PM EST
You could go with a stainless steel Ruger, no worries about rust, like this one:
RUG KMK512 MKII TGT 22 5 1/2 SS
In stock and I'll cut you a schweet deal brother. Sorry about not having any Buckmarks, if you find one out of state, let me know and I'll do the transfer for you. Meanwhile I'll check back with my Distributor everyday until you tell me you've found one or given up.

As far as the suppressor's go. The Triple XXX .223 cans capable of sustained full-auto fire weighs as much as the pistol and is 1 1/2" in diameter. Talk to John Oliver with Dane Manufacturing, I'm sure he has some really light aluminum .22 cans that would better suit you. I've seen some really nice muzzle thread protectors done, so well you won't be able to tell it from the barrel, talk to John.

Hallmark Enterprises 01/FFL
Link Posted: 7/15/2002 4:58:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/15/2002 5:00:27 PM EST by rocko]
I'd say it largely depends if whether or not you're the type that likes to spend 3-4x the original cost "customizing" your guns or if your the type who likes to leave well enough alone.

I love my standard buckmark (got it for $175 well used, but not abused) - trigger is much better than a rugers, IMHO, out of the box and it shoot better than I will likely ever be able to. I don't care for the european style mag release of the MK II, and the grip angle seems just a tad too severe for me. The 22/45 solves both of these issues, but just doesn't feel "right" to me.

However, there isn't alot of aftermarket stuff available for the buckmark if your the type who is into that. I personally don't think the pistol really needs it, and it is somewhat silly to dump tons of money into a $200 pistol...

Link Posted: 7/15/2002 5:28:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/15/2002 7:43:42 PM EST
A few months ago, I starting looking for a cheap, plinking .22lr handgun.
I wanted best bang for buck.

I found the browning to be the best bang for the buck.

For $235 Great ergonomics for my hands.
It has grip angle and feel of 1911.
Heavy Barrel.
Adjustible tall post sights.
Trigger is not bad for cheap .22lr.

I haven't done any extensive testing on accuracy.
At CCW distances, 7 yards I can get bullets touching.
Haven't sandbag it yet.

Link Posted: 7/15/2002 7:46:04 PM EST
Your idea is sound. 4 years ago I went from full time, then retired, then to part time LE. I went from shooting my duty pistol twice monthly, to about twice yearly. My scores went down noticeably. I bought a Buckmark NIB for $179. I now shoot it at least monthly practicing only at 25 yards. I never had a problem with up close shooting with my 1911 so I basically devote the practice to 25 yards. My scores went up dramatically. I now practice with it religiously. Its nice having a pistol with the controls in the same place and getting in lots of practice for little money.
Link Posted: 7/15/2002 8:05:15 PM EST
Try the used market for a S&W stainless kit gun. They are usually pretty reasonably priced (though not as inexpensive as a basic Ruger MarkII or Buckmark) and new pistol shooters seem to respond to the controls and handling procedures.
There is nothing wrong with either the Ruger or the Browning, both are solid values and give years of service. A buddy of mine has a Mark I that his father started bullseye competition with in the mid fifties. My buddies grandson shot it for the first time (he's eight) this year. Four generations.
Link Posted: 7/15/2002 8:20:53 PM EST
Go with a Walther P22 Target.

Can be found for about $260.
Link Posted: 7/15/2002 8:29:43 PM EST
May I suggest a Walther P-22, great gun.
Link Posted: 7/15/2002 8:34:08 PM EST
i have owned all three, now ruger is not reliable with all the ammo that is out there you know whatever is on sale at kmart and walmar, and the magazines are extrememly hard to load they really hurt after a bric or two of shooting...i owned a browingng buckmarck with the sillouet barrel.....and the gun functions exceptional well.....but it needed cleaning everytime you went out and shot it.....because it would start to show a rust residue...not rust just residue......but it does handle great and just like a 1911....now my smith and wesson 22a sport is just the ticket when field hunting, it fits in the tactical holstest and on the crassdraw vest, is the best handling 22 that i have ever usedeven with the long barrel....it shoots smooth, just as smoooth as the browning,now the browning just feels like better quality.....now i shoot at least 500 rounds when ever i take it out....hunting rabbits is the best.....my browning after five years has developed, what i call a weak firing pin, it strikes the bullet....but now bang....my smith and wesson broke the firing pin, but s&w fixed it for free, and in only one week turnaround time.....they even paid for shipping and handling....just email them and the y sen you a return number...and even set fed ex to pick up at your house...the hard part is handing over your gun to a stranger....anyway smith and wesson......jus my two cents.....snipertaz out!
Link Posted: 7/15/2002 8:44:45 PM EST
Buy the Browning Buckmark Plus. It is well made, accurate, easy to fieldstrip to clean(unlike the Ruger), and has a nice feeling/looking walnut grips. I also have several 3 screw single sixes. I received my first one when I was 12, who knows how many thousands of rounds went through it, never a problem.I had it reblued at the factory and now it is retired in my safe. The second single six has taken it's place.I have shot my share of Ruger Mark II's and they seem chinsy compared to the Browning. I must admit though, I bought the 50TH anneversary edition which sits unfired in my safe!!!!
Link Posted: 7/15/2002 8:44:50 PM EST
I know you're settled on a semi, but I picked up a superb S&W model 63 stainless K-frame, and a Model 18 Combat Masterpiece, both 4" barrels for under $300.00 each, and they are immaculate.

The 63 seems a little more accurate, but the 18 is same size and weight as other Combat Masterpieces in different calibers. I'll bet my kids put 1000 rounds through the pair every outing! And they hit what they aim at! I use the 18 to tune up before revovler classes or competitions, myself!
Link Posted: 7/15/2002 9:10:31 PM EST
My pic is the SIG TRAILSIDE . Several of my friends have them and I can't seem to get one myself. Gotta put some money away...
Link Posted: 7/15/2002 9:12:25 PM EST
Travis, there is a good article in the August 02 issue of Shooting Times with the president of S&W. Goes over all the issues regarding the people who made the lousy decisions.
I have shot the S&W 22A a few times and really like it. Have not cleaned it so can't comment on how easy or difficult that is. The Ruger is nice, but it is a pain to clean and I really don't like that. At the last shoot a guy has a can on his S&W and it was really impressive. I don't have any experience with the Buckmark so no comment on that. I would take a look at the article and at least give the S&W consideration. Good luck and hope all is going well with the family.
Link Posted: 7/15/2002 9:41:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By BlackFox:

* Browning Buckmark: Love 'em. Pros: Easy to clean, easy on the eye, good price (~$250-350). Cons: Can't find any worth buying. Have been looking for months.

good sources for a Browning Buckmark?

Black Fox

Have you tried a gun show yet? Any gun dealer can order you one NIB. The Buckmark consistently out shoots other brands in the same price range.
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 4:06:50 AM EST

Really tough to clean, anything Ruger makes lasts ~2 days before rusting.

Uh, yeah. Based on that really informed and intelligent post, I'm guessing you may have a Mattel M16 in your collection.

The Buckmark consistently out shoots other brands in the same price range.

Uh, no they don't. Going over IHMSA results, the wins in the rimfire category are more or less evenly split between Ruger and Browning. If you still have doubts, then place the two in a Ransom rest. End of discussion.
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 5:20:11 AM EST
Rats, I had a very detailed comparison between the Browning and the Ruger but my computer crapped out when I went to spell check. So here's the short version w/o spell check.

I own both base 5 1/2" model Buckmark (bought 1998 for $200 - 4,000-6,000 rounds through it) and a special edition stainless Mk II w/ 5 1/2" heavy tapered barrel adjustable sights and target grips, only 1500 made (bought 1991 for $300 - 15,000-20,000 rounds through it). I shoot one of these pistols almost every day. I work less than 2 miles from my shooting range, so I shoot 50-70 rounds on my lunch hour. I fire 500-1000 rounds through each before cleaning (approx. every 2 weeks) and switch pistols each time I clean.

Disassembly: They are both easy once you get the hang of the Ruger (I assume the people who have trouble are not mechanically inclined or haven't taken the time to study the problem). Ruger doesn't need tools. Mags: Ruger easier to dissasemble.

Reliability: With the lowest power ammo (Win. X-Pert) Ruger will not function more than 50%, all others fine. With X-Pert ammo Buckmark fails to function 5%. Solution: I do not buy Win. X-pert anymore. Out of a pistol, you can feel in the recoil how impotent it is. They both funtion reliably with all other ammo.

Trigger: Comparable; stock Browning 1/2 pound lighter. Browning trigger too curved: more likely to pull a shot with an off axis pull. Lock time: (very subjective) I think is faster with the Buckmark.

Access to action: Easier to single load Buckmark. Downside: hot crap falls out of the action sometimes onto my hand. Most recent resulted in a tiny second degree burn to my trigger finger. I do not have this problem with the Ruger.

For the stiff magazines make yourself a button depressor by cutting a rectangular hole in a piece of sheet metal.

I do not like that I am removing the rear sight on the buckmark to clean it (loosing zero). It usually comes back so close I can't see a difference.

Mag release doesn't matter except when practising combat, in which case I shoot my Buckmark because it aproximates my 1911.

I like them both for the reasons other people have given. If I had to choose one, it would be the Ruger; because of my two, the Ruger is fancier and I like the grip angle better. Mechanically they are on par with the above noted differences.


P.S. Someone earlier mentioned the Ruger single six. The one I had (traded it in on the buckmark) was very accurate and reliable and if you are looking to slow the pace down a little with beginners, it might be a good choice.
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 6:28:20 AM EST
I agree with using a revolver for instructing beginners, but IMO it helps newbies to understand the difference betw. a revolver and an semi-auto, and early. Therefore, you really need both. A used S&W .22 6" revolver can be found by scouring the local and semi-local gun shops, or Gun List/SGN, or GunBroker.com or AuctionArms.com. I recommend 6" because the longer sight radius helps new shooters.

For the semi, the Ruger MkII and Buckmark have all the respective advantages and downsides already pointed out. Now and again an old High Standard can be found, and these were and still are respected .22s. At the risk of sounding like a heretic, I like the S&W M41, my personal M41 being the 7-3/8" dating from 1964. These can also be found used, and buying used supports a gun shop and does not support S&W if you personal beliefs and concerns lean that way. I have seen used S&W 22As also, and while not owning one I have shot one and believe it would fit the intended purpose.

Link Posted: 7/16/2002 6:46:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/16/2002 6:51:39 AM EST by mr_camera_man]

Originally Posted By BlackFox:
I'd like a revolver (just so there's no slide or ejected brass), but they're running $500+?!



I've seen the Model 94 with 4"in person, although I haven't fired it. Trigger seemed good, and the grips were comfy in my kinda big hads(and well suited to smaller hands). Also seemed pretty well balanced. It was about $250 on the shelf. It isn't stainless, but it'd still come out at a good price even if you send it off to be chromed or nickeled.

Aside from that, a Ruger Mk II or 22/45 would probably be the best you could do in an autoloader.
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 6:55:17 AM EST
I've got to say if you're looking for a sweet .22 revolver I'd go with the S/W K22 Masterpiece. I've shot one several times. Boy is it nice
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 7:14:23 AM EST
Hey BERETTA just came out with a brand new .22lr semi auto....It's all black and looks awesome!!!!! Much better than the Buckmark or the Ruger styles......

It may be a bit higher in price than the others, but boy it looks BITCHEN!!!!! I'm buying one as soon as they come in to my locak gun shop!!!!!!

I own a Ruger and sold my old Buckmark. Good guns, but it's just.....ah......they're both UGLY!!!!!!!

The Beretta looks like a REAL GUN.....
Link Posted: 7/16/2002 9:41:03 AM EST
I'm the advisor for the university rifle and pistol club. We have all three in our collection, each with several kazillion rounds thru them.

Buckmark - nicest looking and handling of the three. Needs to be kept clean. Field stripping procedure has a couple of quirks to it, namely remembering which lock washer goes where. Generally reliable with the ammo we buy (whatever is cheap). The plastic recoil buffers wear out with some regularity. No parts breakage that I recall.

Ruger - heavy (we use bull barrel models). Generally reliable. Seems to take the abuse of amateur shooters better than other brands. Disassembly also has a quirk or tow but once you've done it a few times its no problem. Handles different than the Buckmark, yo7u choose with one you like.

S & W - the 422 or 1022 or whatever model number they are. Avoid, and I say that as a Smith fan. Parts breakage. Reliability hit or miss. Feels weird. Looks worse.

Any of the three can cause problems. At least one of our Buckmarks and one of the Rugers are basically wore out. Yes, it really is possible to wear our a gun. The Buckmarks seem to get the most use. All of them like to be kept clean. Reliabilty with the bulk pack hollow points is usually pretty bad. Have our best luck with CCI Blazer.

If I was to spend my money I'd probalby opt for the Buckmark, especially that short barreled one. Looks neat.

Link Posted: 7/16/2002 10:52:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hk45USP:
Hey BERETTA just came out with a brand new .22lr semi auto....It's all black and looks awesome!!!!! Much better than the Buckmark or the Ruger styles......

It may be a bit higher in price than the others, but boy it looks BITCHEN!!!!! I'm buying one as soon as they come in to my locak gun shop!!!!!!

I own a Ruger and sold my old Buckmark. Good guns, but it's just.....ah......they're both UGLY!!!!!!!

The Beretta looks like a REAL GUN.....

I didn't know a .22lr handgun was supposed to be a range queen...

What ever happened to fuctionality?
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 3:42:28 AM EST
BlackFox. Call me ASAP!

Hallmark Enterprises
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 10:15:34 AM EST

by MurderSHO45 "I didn't know a .22lr handgun was supposed to be a range queen..."

I don't know about you, but I don't consider myself a "queen".....More like an Emperor!!!!

GET SOME!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 12:14:22 PM EST
I really like the SIG-TRAILSIDE.It has a super trigger.But they are a little bit pricey.
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 2:40:24 PM EST
I would recomend the Ruger MKII heI have a 1999 Ruger MKII Competition Target Model with Crimson Trace Laser Grips on it I shoot it more than any other gun I own ....
The slabside 6 7/8" barrel is as accurate as any rifle I own handles well target sights and came with scope mount and rings target grips all that for $220 deal of the century,maybe that $475 AR-15 is also a deal I'm proud of..
The Browning Buckmark would be good choice as well...hippie.gif
Link Posted: 7/17/2002 9:41:36 PM EST
The Sig Trailside is byfar the finest .22 pistol that has been made to the public. I am well aware of Ruger's popular Mark II, and am very fond of Browning (owning several)- but after shooting all three, anyone would agree with the Sig. The trigger, design, ergonomics, balance, accuracy, and reliability are superior.
The only con is the price. If you "bite the bullet" you would not be disappointed. Even if you weren't satisfied, you would not have a difficult time finding a buyer.
Those who know, choose the Trailside.
Link Posted: 7/18/2002 1:46:12 AM EST
Only problem with the trailslides is that I have heard of multiple instances where the slide fails to lock back on an empty mag. My uncle recently purchased on NIB and had this problem. I thought his would have been more or less a fluke, but two other people reported the same problem with theirs in a similar thread on TFL recently. Both of them were sent back for repairs (one several times), but the owners reported that it still didn't fix the problem 100% of the time. IMHO, for the cost of the gun, there shouldn't be problems like this...

Link Posted: 7/18/2002 2:29:52 AM EST
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