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Posted: 9/25/2005 4:03:14 PM EDT
I accidentaly just put these over in the Curio and Relics but I meant to do it here. I shot these groups today with my garand at 100 with federal GM 168 grain BTHP's. In case anyone cares.



Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:10:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 8:16:30 PM EDT by Dano523]
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:40:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 8:41:20 PM EDT by Maddogkiller]
Assuming that you are a proficient shooter, and your rifle is in good shape, it seems that your Garand doesn't like that particular load.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:50:09 PM EDT
What does it do with Surplus M2 Ball.
I dont shoot paper that much but using Lake City M2 Ball, I have shot better groups that that
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:26:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Maddogkiller:
Assuming that you are a proficient shooter, and your rifle is in good shape, it seems that your Garand doesn't like that particular load.



It's a CMP service grade that I did nothing to but clean. the Gas Cylinder moves, which is part of the front sight, the stock is worn so much that you don't need to even try to take it out of the stock, it falls out without any effort, the barrel was put on in '53, and my op rod is slightly bent and I had to sand the inside of the stock to get it to function. According to the site linked, I think it shoots pretty good. I've gotten a 1-3/8" group from it once with lake city ammo.

I plan on shooting garand matches with it, so I'm not going to bed it. I do want to make it shoot a little better to be more competitive. But I'm a beginner and have never shot a match yet and I'm not entirely sure where to start. I'm thinking of getting a boyds stock. I know it's not the traditional profile, but it'd probably be alot tighter stock to receiver fit thus producing a little bit better shooter. What do you think?

Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:49:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 5:55:43 PM EDT by Dano523]
I like the boyd stocks due to the thicker profile, and yes they are milled tight for the action. Now if I can just talk Boyd into making a type 2 stock (super match style) for the garands with a fuller pistol grip section, I would be set ( Ijust taked with Kirt a few days ago and he said it wasn't going to be a stock item, and I would need to dig deep into my pockets if I wanted one custom made)

As for the gas cylinder, ream the rear band so it does not touch the barrel, peen the barrel spines to tighten up the cylinder against the barrel, and make sure that the cylinder and front hand guard are not binding/touching each other. No glassing in JG, so the front hand guard is going to move a little on the barrel. When you go to fit the new rear hand guard on the barrel, make sure to have 1/8" gaps between receiver and the main stock sides. If you have any contact on these areas, you are going to get shot strings as the barrel heats up. Bottom line is you only want the receiver (not barrel or Opt rod) touching the lower stock, and the only the stock middle band tension on the barrel. JG rules says no glassing, so the barrel wood is going to move a bit (if you stay legal or find another way around the rules).

Also, due to the long jump of/to the throat on the stock USGI barrel, you will find that the rifle will perfer 150 flat base bullets over any of the BT designs, hence the reason the it grouped better with the LC ammo.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 6:05:23 PM EDT
Thank you sir, I wasn't planning on getting the new handguard front and back. The one's I got are fine. They don't exactly match the stock I got now so what's the difference? I don't really care how it looks. I've heard this peening of the barrel spines but I'm not sure what it means. I can guess but I might be wrong. How do you do that? The front hand guard has some play so I'm ok there, I think. You've got me one step closer to ordering a boyds now. Alot of the guys on battlerifles.com don't like them because they're not the original profile. But my dad's got an m1a and I like how it feels so, I'm figuring it's more like that. Plus like I say, I'm more worried about shooting it then making it original. If you can explain this peening thing to me, I'd be indebted to you!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 7:07:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 7:52:34 PM EDT by Dano523]
Spend the whole $79 and get the Complete Boyd walnut stock with hand guards. Having the entire wood match is worth the extra $15 over just the lower stock alone.
www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=107223

If you do want a New thinner USGI profiled stock (don't know why for match shooting), then CMP is offering Boyd stocks that have been thinned down to the old USGI dementions.

Now back to the thicker profile of the Boyd stock,
Since I can’t find a photo of a Boyd stock over a true older style thinner USGI stock, I will put it this way to you. The total wood sides and bottom area just forward of the mag well is thinner on the USGI stock. Trust me, during a match, you never going to grab this area, instead your going to be so tightly slung up, that the thinner profile USGI stock is going to flex more than the thicker profiled Boyd stock. The more the stock flexes, the more tension is applied to the middle band, and hence the barrel downward tension and this drifts the shots. Simple put, the only thing that you are grabbing on the rifle is pistol grip section; your front hand is just wedged in on the forearm during prone and sitting, and in regards to standing, you forearm hand is used a steady rest platform with the elbow wedged into your side. (Note: If you a woman shooter, you just kick out your hip and wedge your elbow in there). The thicker the stock that they allow you to use, the better for you are for match shooting.
To really see the difference in the evolution of the target stocks, look at a M-14 stock in regards to the USGI units, the SA NM unit, then at the super match SA stock, paying close attention to the area just forward of the mag threw to the front band.
Note, S/A gave Boyd the specs to cut these stocks, so if you buy a Boyd stock; you are getting a SA (the new SA company and not the old SA USGI builder) designed stock.


www.springfield-armory.com/images/rifles/MA9102Large.jpg
www.springfield-armory.com/images/rifles/NA9102Large.jpg
www.springfield-armory.com/images/rifles/SA9802Large.jpg

As for peening the barrel,
web.archive.org/web/20030518175717/www.jouster.com/lanestips/peencylinder.html
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 7:40:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 7:46:28 PM EDT by Dano523]
Added since warbird has photo's on his site:
www.warbirdscustomguns.com/M1%20Garand.htm

The first/top rifle you come to is a Boyds stock, then as you scroll down a bit, you come to the M1D (scoped unit with a USGI stock). Again, look at the section in front of the mag well/FCG and just think in regards to slung up tight and stock flex.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 7:30:55 AM EDT
I believe your M1 has a 2 groove barrel. It will shoot better with 147 grain bullets. If you opted for a 4 groove barrel, then using the 168 grain bullets would work better.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 8:56:46 AM EDT
the groups you shot with match grade ammo is about as good as your rifle is capable of.
Ammo wont turm a rack grade into a match grade. but those groups are acceptable for a rack grade.
also the only 2grove barrels I heard of were on early 03 springfields NOT M1 garands
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 12:10:26 PM EDT
2 groove barrells were used on some 1903A3 rifles during World War II production. Weren't original to earlier rifles. If you have a Garand with a two groove barrell, used to some scuzzy type dealers were, I believe, using two groove 03A3 barrels to line crappy M1 barrells. Don't know how they made it happen but I wouldn't want to shoot one.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 5:59:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
I believe your M1 has a 2 groove barrel. It will shoot better with 147 grain bullets. If you opted for a 4 groove barrel, then using the 168 grain bullets would work better.



Yeah, why is it you believe that?
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 6:03:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RL15:
the groups you shot with match grade ammo is about as good as your rifle is capable of.
Ammo wont turm a rack grade into a match grade. but those groups are acceptable for a rack grade.
also the only 2grove barrels I heard of were on early 03 springfields NOT M1 garands



Yeah, I'm going to try peening the barrel and getting a new stock and go from there. It's a journey. I know it wont be a one holer but it sure is fun to shoot. And even with this kind of accuracy I can hit cans at 100 fairly regularily in the prone position. But my main goal is garand matches and I know I'm not going to set any records right away. My brother has a field grade on order right now and we'll shoot the matches together. And tweek as we go. Thank you all for the info. I'll keep posting my groups though.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 9:26:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dano523:
Also, due to the long jump of/to the throat on the stock USGI barrel, you will find that the rifle will perfer 150 flat base bullets over any of the BT designs, hence the reason the it grouped better with the LC ammo.




Thank you Dano. I've been trying to work some loads with 147gr FMJBT and so far I haven't been able to do much better than M2.
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