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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/1/2002 9:25:39 PM EDT
I am looking to buy my first AR-15 and I have it down to two rifles.
The wilson combat UT-15 and the Fulton Armory GEN II Liberator FAR-15. (16 inch barrel)
Both are listed for around 1600 dollers.
I have heard alot about wilson and was going to get one but then I came across Fulton Armory. There rifles look like a mighty good deal.
And it looks like they might shoot pretty good too.
Do any of you guys have a F.A and if so, how is it shooting.
Also I would like to know how there service and there support is?
If you guys can please help me with this it would be great.
Daniel
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 9:36:33 PM EDT
Fulton armory makes some very pretty stuff, but their price is much to high. Same with Wilson put all of your money back in your pocket for about a week or so and do some shopping, lots of folks make the same stuff at better prices.
If you are looking for a 16 inch barrel you are not looking for 1 inch groups at 200 yards, so drop all the match grade stuff. Why spend lots of your money on match grade stuff when 6 inches at 200 yards is good?
It is amazing how much money is wasted on Ti firing pins and chromed bolt carriers by guys building an m4gery.
If you want a cq rifle get an m4gery ! if you want a sniper rifle get a good varmit gun!
neither can do the others job and neither should try!
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 9:44:09 PM EDT
I cant say anything about their AR-15's
but...
their custmer service and quality of work is superb.

A buddy of mine spent a fist full of dollars and purchased one of their peerles grade M1A's.
that thing id is a work of art and a tack driver.

I myself have had clint perform his miraces on a pair of my garands and my service rifle comp ar-15.
Same results as with the M1A above.

I highly doubt you will be disapointed with Clints products
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 10:03:57 PM EDT
go with bushmaster. good rifles and great service. plus its cheaper. its also one of the leading manufactures of the AR-15 now. i think i read somthing that said they has the highest civilian approval and purchasing out of everyone else. there is my $.02 good luck. i would say the bushyies run about $800-1000 you could save $600 or more. then thing of all the accessories you could get with the extra 600 hehehehe
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 10:06:46 PM EDT
Paterpk, guns, for me, that do not shoot well are not fun.
Wilson says the UT-15 will get 1 MOA at one hundred yards.(16.25" barrel)
That is pretty darn good for a little light (6.5 pounds) rifle.
I would like a rifle that shoots well and is not a 14 pound target rifle.
I have done the whole 14 pound rifle thing and it is just not fun.
If that means I have to spend 1600 hundred dollers to get a light rifle that shoots like that, so be it.
That is what I am looking for.
Daniel
PS
For varmints I have a kimber 22-250 varmint rifle.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 10:15:59 PM EDT
Citabria7GCBC, A friend of mine shot a bushy the other day and said it was really fun and it did not jam.
And they said it was a nice rifle.
But they also said that it did not shoot very well.
I really would like a gun that is light and shoots well.(like the wilson)
But then the F.A came along and I thought one of those might be good for me too.
So I thought I come and ask about them here.
Daniel

Link Posted: 3/1/2002 10:41:37 PM EDT
if youre going to come here to ask for advice why are you arguing when you get it? you dont have an AR, you dont know anything about ARs but you have a friend who said a bushy didnt shoot well. so its obvious your friend doesnt know anything about ARs either. there are people on this board who have been shooting and building ARs for 20+ years and people like myself who have been in the military and seen ARs function under the harshest conditions. im not flaming you but you asked. rack-grade issue M16A2 will shoot damn near 1MOA in the right hands. ive shot a wilson and when i handed it back to the owner i thought to myself what a tool he was for dropping $1600 for nothing. my Colt MT6601 weighs in at about 9 1/2 lbs, looks bone stock and will embarrass any wilson of similar configuration.

on bushmaster: ive seen old M4's made by bushmaster, all of the airpowered ISMIT trainers are bushmasters and i have it on good authority that the RTE buys parts from bushmaster for use on the USMC service rifle team weapons. so yeah, you're right. bushy is crap. get the wilson.

you want light? get a bushmaster 16inch fluted heavy barrel.maybe spring for the natinal match trigger and rear apperture. BAM, $900. if that wont shoot 1MOA its your fault
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 11:05:00 PM EDT
Well then, dog, you are right and I know nothing about AR-15.
I go on only what I hear and read.
But before you get all up tight about me arguing with advice, remember, I came here and asked about F.A. and wilson.
I did not ask about bushy nor did I say they where crap.
All I said was "A friend of mine shot a bushy the other day and said it was really fun and it did not jam.
And they said it was a nice rifle.
But they also said that it did not shoot very well"
If you do not think very highly of the rifles that I have it down to and you must get off what I asked about, please just tell me what nicely what you think is better and the price.
I liked the info you gave me but it did not seem very nice.
I hope not all the people here that know sooo much about AR-15s treat people who are new to them like that.
Daniel

Link Posted: 3/1/2002 11:12:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DvlDog:

i have it on good authority that the RTE buys parts from bushmaster for use on the USMC service rifle team weapons.



i was was told that armalite was a heavy hitter for one of the branches too.

Link Posted: 3/1/2002 11:30:04 PM EDT
i think paterpk has some good points here.

if your just going to use it for a goof around gun.
you arnt going to really appreciate all the bells and whistles that are on a premium grade AR-15's.

If this is your first ar-15 grab a stock rifle first.

When either you shoot out the barrel or you can shoot better than your rifle is capable of, thats the to trick out you rat gun.

Link Posted: 3/2/2002 12:00:46 AM EDT
dude i don't care what your friend says. When i bought my bushy xm15e2s A2 i was well able to hit the bullseye on a paper target at +100 yards RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX. no modifications no sight adjustment nada. it hit right where i aimed it. but you gotta take care of your gun too. thiers any number of things your friend could have done wrong. From not having cleaned it in a LONG time to using crappy ammo to having an in correct zero. or the barrel could be badly worn if he bought it used or hes had it a while. or else he could just be a really crappy shot.

to make things better bushmaster has great support and info and tons of parts available and your gun comes in a free lockable case.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 12:17:55 AM EDT
po89mm, Thank you very much for your help.
After reading and reseaching bushmaster I think I might get one of them.
I really like gun makers who stand by there guns and tell you what they will shoot.
I think that is why I was leaning more to the premium grade AR-15s.
I would just hate to get a bad shooting gun, but from what I have been reading I think if I do not part the bushmaster would be fine.

WolfAR15, Thanks for posting and telling me what you think.
My friend just shot it, I do not know how well the gun was taken care of, good thought.

It seems like there are alot of die hard Bushmaster people here willing to defend them.
I think that is a good sign.
Thank you guys again,
Daniel

Link Posted: 3/2/2002 6:37:47 AM EDT
Buttstock, I guess the answer you've found so far is that not too many folks who have read your post actually own or have shot a Wilson or a Fulton. All my ARs are Bushmaster and they are a first rate product. But if I were going to drop $1600 on a shorty AR I'd check out the KAC SR-15. For about that price you get a great rifle with a RAS and about the best 2-stage match trigger you can get. My $0.57 ($0.02 adjusted for inflation ...
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 9:12:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2002 9:13:56 AM EDT by sgtstinger]
ButtStock-

If I were in the market for a high-dollar firearm, I think that I'd want to shoot at least one first, maybe several.

My $0.02 on your situation would be to test shoot as many AR's as you can find, then make your own decision based on first-hand experience. Find a couple of folks with AR's then offer to swap some ammo in exchange for some trigger time. Most folks wouldn't mind doing this. I know I wouldn't mind. AR owners tend to be exceptionally proud of their rifles and like showing them off to others.

You can also consider advice from other sources, such as this discussion board, but I'd let my own experiences guide me.

Hope this helps...
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 9:36:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ButtStock:
po89mm, Thank you very much for your help.
After reading and reseaching bushmaster I think I might get one of them.
I really like gun makers who stand by there guns and tell you what they will shoot.
I think that is why I was leaning more to the premium grade AR-15s.
I would just hate to get a bad shooting gun, but from what I have been reading I think if I do not part the bushmaster would be fine.

WolfAR15, Thanks for posting and telling me what you think.
My friend just shot it, I do not know how well the gun was taken care of, good thought.

It seems like there are alot of die hard Bushmaster people here willing to defend them.
I think that is a good sign.
Thank you guys again,
Daniel




Look at an ArmaLite first!
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 9:47:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2002 9:49:38 AM EDT by BusMaster007]
I just love to copy and paste:

Bushmaster:
www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/pcwa3s20.asp
www.bushmaster.com/shopping/buttstocks/1005-087-8988pek.asp
www.bushmaster.com/shopping/buttstocks/15002.asp
www.bushmaster.com/shopping/magazines/rm-15a1.asp
www.bushmaster.com/shopping/magazines/ttmp.asp

A Harris bipod and #5 adapter.
A quick way to scope it is with Weaver see-thru rings mounted directly to the top with the A2 sight handle removed.
Scope choice is whatever you have or wish to afford.
This is a quick way to get going.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 9:55:57 AM EDT
Thank you DarkNite for your help.
I have seen those guns but I have not found the prices for them.

sgtstinger, Thank you for your help.
I think most people around here with AR-15s do not go to the range but out in the middle of nowhere to shoot.
I am always not very trusting when it comes to discussion boards.
I have gotten things that alot of people had said are the best and it ends up that it dose not live up to what people said.
So if I am slow to trust what you guys tell me, that is why.

QCMGR, Why do you think I should look at armalite before a bushmaster?
Are they alot better?
If anyone can tell me about the whole bushmaster vs. armalite please do, it would help alot.
Thank you guys again,
Daniel



Link Posted: 3/2/2002 10:05:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ButtStock:
Thank you DarkNite for your help.
I have seen those guns but I have not found the prices for them.

sgtstinger, Thank you for your help.
I think most people around here with AR-15s do not go to the range but out in the middle of nowhere to shoot.
I am always not very trusting when it comes to discussion boards.
I have gotten things that alot of people had said are the best and it ends up that it dose not live up to what people said.
So if I am slow to trust what you guys tell me, that is why.

QCMGR, Why do you think I should look at armalite before a bushmaster?
Are they alot better?
If anyone can tell me about the whole bushmaster vs. armalite please do, it would help alot.
Thank you guys again,
Daniel



I own both. I like the fit and finish on the ArmaLite but the Bushmaster is a great utility weapon. Both claim to be Mil-spec. Both rifles shoot MOA. I think you should look at both and see what you like best. My general rule is (all things being equal) I would buy an ArmaLite before a Bushmaster and a Bushmaster over everything else. I recommend you look at both.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 10:14:07 AM EDT
And are there prices about the same?
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 10:45:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ButtStock:
And are there prices about the same?



Go here and you will get an idea about price:

www.gunsamerica.com/
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 1:20:27 PM EDT
QCMGR, what do you think about the knights AR-15s?
And also what about the Olympic AR-15s?
Thank you again
Daniel
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 2:18:41 PM EDT
Has any seen or heard of anyone using the Wilson, Les Baer or Knight rifles in any kind of competition besides IPSC? $1600.00 gets a match or a DCM rifle and change from Compass Lake, Accuray Speaks, etc. It seems to me that all of the ACCURATE AR's are built on more pedistrian parts than the designer rifles.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 2:21:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
you want light? get a bushmaster 16inch fluted heavy barrel.maybe spring for the natinal match trigger and rear apperture. BAM, $900. if that wont shoot 1MOA its your fault


I have to agree here.
I would also look at the Armalite line-up.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 2:36:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ButtStock:
QCMGR, what do you think about the knights AR-15s?
And also what about the Olympic AR-15s?
Thank you again
Daniel



The Knights guns look nice, but I think they are a little pricey. I do not see any advantage of one over an ArmaLite. In fact, I think the ArmaLite looks better. I understand the Olympic AR's have a following, but I would buy a Bushmaster. Again, I think the overall quality of the Bushmaster puts it ahead of a similarly prices Oly. I agree with GreenLocust concerning Wilson, Les Baer or Knights.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 5:46:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2002 5:51:17 PM EDT by ButtStock]
QCMGR, I saw this somewhere, it looks like the knight might be a good deal "Looking for the "best bang" for the buck? Look at the added features of the SR-15: factory installed M4 RAS (Rail Adapter System) is $289.00, Two Stage Match Trigger is $300, and the Flip-up Rear 300m Sight retails for $139. The total value for these SR-15 add-ons is $725.00. This means that the base price of the Carbine is just $667.00!!!"
What you think?
Daniel
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 6:03:33 PM EDT
Compass Lake Engineering as long as youve got bucks to spend
www.compasslake.com/
and you want accuracy...here it is..
For your first rifle..may as go with a top of the line service rifle..
If you want a 16" barrel light wt. poodle popper go with the super lt. wt. Bushmaster and have Kurtskustom (look him up in the industry forum) make it into a post ban for you...get the flat top put some nice optics on it ACOG or Luepold Mark4 CQ/T
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 6:16:49 PM EDT
This means that the base price of the Carbine is just $667.00!!!"
What you think?


That just means that their profit margin on the other items is astronomic... I've got two Bushys and an Armalite... I like em all equally but would go Bushy if I needed another... Reason!! Bushmaster is Bushmaster.. Armalite is ? (i think; Sterling arms this month) They've changed ownership and plants a lot.. As far as service goes, no one beats Bushmaster.. In my humble (not) opinion...
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 6:38:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ButtStock:
QCMGR, I saw this somewhere, it looks like the knight might be a good deal "Looking for the "best bang" for the buck? Look at the added features of the SR-15: factory installed M4 RAS (Rail Adapter System) is $289.00, Two Stage Match Trigger is $300, and the Flip-up Rear 300m Sight retails for $139. The total value for these SR-15 add-ons is $725.00. This means that the base price of the Carbine is just $667.00!!!"
What you think?
Daniel




If those are features you desire, then it sounds like a deal. What is the price of a striped down model? I still think Bushmaster is the best "value" for the money.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 8:26:32 PM EDT
http://www.impactguns.com/store/kmc_sr15.html
This is where I saw that.
QCMGR, I do not think they have a stripped down model.
That RAS seems like it would be nice, it would make it really easy to mount all kinds of stuff.
And knowing me I will want to put some stuff on it.
Anyone know what there service is like?
Thank you guys for your help,
Daniel
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 7:08:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ButtStock:
http://www.impactguns.com/store/kmc_sr15.html
This is where I saw that.
QCMGR, I do not think they have a stripped down model.
That RAS seems like it would be nice, it would make it really easy to mount all kinds of stuff.
And knowing me I will want to put some stuff on it.
Anyone know what there service is like?
Thank you guys for your help,
Daniel



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