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Posted: 2/9/2016 12:21:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/9/2016 12:23:35 AM EST by Machineguntony]
This is a review of a transferable Smith & Wesson machine pistol, and my first experience shooting it.

I picked up stamp and gun today, and I immediately took it to the range. The gun came wth a stock, but I preferred to shoot it without the stock.

It was my first time ever shooting a machine pistol, but I had studied various videos of people shooting machine pistols. When dealing with something like a machine pistol, safety is first and foremost. You have to respect and be fully aware of the gun at all times. This is not a gun for beginners (but then again, no machine gun is for beginners unless highly supervised).

Here is video of me and two other people shooting the gun. I have not figured out how to show the video in a window on the forum, so for now, I'll just show the link. If someone can show me how to post the video in a window, I'd appreciate it.

Here is the video:

https://youtu.be/Fy5FbzyrH6A

The gun is surprisingly easy to shoot. It's a 9mm, so the recoil isn't bad. Also, I load my own rounds, so I made relatively mild rounds. You can see in the video that the cases didn't fly far. That was because I used a middling load with a relatively mild powder.

However, the gun will rise on you. This weekend, I'll take the gun to an outdoor range, where I can mag dump. On a mag dump, I think I'll reach an equilibrium point where the gun rises but then it flattens out and no longer rises. On burst fire, I'm not yet able to prevent the rise; although, I think with enough practice I will be able to put bursts into a seven inch group at 10 yards.

My technique is to hold the gun with the predominant side fully extended and locked. I effectively use a submachine gun shooting stance, with a pistol grip (feet spacing, shoulder to target alignment, and spinal posture similar to SMG shooting, but grip and arm extension consistent with my pistol grip). That's me in the blue sweater.

Usually, I let various invited guests shoot my machine guns, as an act of NFA ambassadorship, but not this gun. I did let a couple of very experienced range employees shoot the gun. Both had a giant grin afterwards, although one commented that his heart was racing afterwards.

The gun is a lot of fun. Is it useful? Well, I wouldn't use it for self defense, unless I knew ahead of time that there were no innocent bystanders nearby and I also had seven magazines ready. I also wouldn't use it for subgun or pistol competition unless I wanted to come in last place. I also wouldn't take it varmint hunting.

Then again, fun is the end goal with all my guns, so this gun is extremely useful and handy.

Link Posted: 2/9/2016 2:22:55 AM EST
Tony,

Thanks for the write up and video!

Can you post some more photos of this rare machine pistol?

What model again? Are you going to move the sear?

Does the pistol have safe, semi, and full auto or just safe and full?

thanks again
Link Posted: 2/9/2016 9:48:04 AM EST
Thanks for sharing, Very cool transferable machine pistol.

Sent you an IM about the range.
Link Posted: 2/9/2016 10:54:20 AM EST
If you had a floor to ceiling piece of paper hung up, I think you'd be surprised at where the rounds are going

especially with full power loads

every time you fired the gun, it can be seen that the gun is kicking up between about 15 degrees

I've tried guns like that before, they are difficult to shoot well
Link Posted: 2/9/2016 11:04:27 AM EST
Here is the embed, you have to be a team member to embed video.
Link Posted: 2/9/2016 11:07:14 AM EST
Thanks for the video.

Machine pistols are fun, definitely difficult to control. I've only use a postie glock in .45. Quite the climber.
Link Posted: 2/9/2016 11:46:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/9/2016 11:47:38 AM EST by Machineguntony]
Chas, I don't have any extra pics I can post currently. But the gun is just a regular 659, nothing really different from any other 659, except for the holes in the frame for the collapsible stock. I'm going to move the sear to a S&W 5906 TAC9.

JB and Chas, you guys are kind of close to me. We should meet up at Best of the West sometime for a MG shoot. The only problem with BoTW is that they don't allow 308, so I can't bring my 240. That thing is wicked fun. Maybe someone can talk to the owner, who works behind the counter to make an exception for a couple of belts.
Link Posted: 2/9/2016 8:55:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Machineguntony:
Chas, I don't have any extra pics I can post currently. But the gun is just a regular 659, nothing really different from any other 659, except for the holes in the frame for the collapsible stock. I'm going to move the sear to a S&W 5906 TAC9.

JB and Chas, you guys are kind of close to me. We should meet up at Best of the West sometime for a MG shoot. The only problem with BoTW is that they don't allow 308, so I can't bring my 240. That thing is wicked fun. Maybe someone can talk to the owner, who works behind the counter to make an exception for a couple of belts.
View Quote


I am open to scheduling a weekend to meet at BOTW. Always nice to meet other local folks with the same NFA collecting sickness.

Worst case, I have a pair of 5.56 beltfeds that are BOTW "tac bay" legal as solace if we can't run the bravo. I am pretty free between now and May except the Big Sandy shoot weekend. Shoot me an email with some proposed dates you are free and I can loop Chas in as well in he is in town.

Chas I believe I still owe you some trigger time from the spring shoot at Dustins that was a complete washout/flood last year. I cant remember if you were one of the guys who brought a bunch of belted ammo to the shoot only to bring it home again at the end of the weekend.
Link Posted: 2/10/2016 10:51:57 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Machineguntony:
Chas, I don't have any extra pics I can post currently. But the gun is just a regular 659, nothing really different from any other 659, except for the holes in the frame for the collapsible stock. I'm going to move the sear to a S&W 5906 TAC9.

JB and Chas, you guys are kind of close to me. We should meet up at Best of the West sometime for a MG shoot. The only problem with BoTW is that they don't allow 308, so I can't bring my 240. That thing is wicked fun. Maybe someone can talk to the owner, who works behind the counter to make an exception for a couple of belts.
View Quote


Ok, so there are no other mods? the sear can be put in any auto smith?


Link Posted: 2/10/2016 11:15:56 PM EST
Chas, check your IM. MG shoot time!
Link Posted: 2/11/2016 9:13:36 AM EST
Very cool, its a shame they are so expensive and hard to find.
Link Posted: 2/11/2016 1:11:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/11/2016 1:12:45 PM EST by RenegadeX]
As the resident Machine Pistol Expert, let me share my experiences with the 18C.

Originally Posted By Machineguntony:

However, the gun will rise on you. This weekend, I'll take the gun to an outdoor range, where I can mag dump. On a mag dump, I think I'll reach an equilibrium point where the gun rises but then it flattens out and no longer rises. On burst fire, I'm not yet able to prevent the rise; although..
View Quote


This is generally correct. I found it easier to learn how to shoot it by doing mag dumps. This allows you to really understand where the gun wants to move to. Once you learn this, you can then anticipate and control those dumps as well as bursts.

Originally Posted By Machineguntony:
I think with enough practice I will be able to put bursts into a seven inch group at 10 yards.
View Quote


This is about correct. The orginal 18C qual in Europe is mag dump and bursts into 20 cm plate from 10 meters. You should also be able to do an standard drill the same as S/A only faster (El Presidente, etc). Also clearing a Plate Rack as everyone has seen in my video in under 1 sec is also dooable.

Originally Posted By Machineguntony:
My technique is to hold the gun with the predominant side fully extended and locked. I effectively use a submachine gun shooting stance, with a pistol grip (feet spacing, shoulder to target alignment, and spinal posture similar to SMG shooting, but grip and arm extension consistent with my pistol grip). That's me in the blue sweater.
View Quote


I hold it the same as shooting a S/A pistol. YMMV.

[b]Originally Posted By Machineguntony:[/b
Usually, I let various invited guests shoot my machine guns, as an act of NFA ambassadorship, but not this gun. I did let a couple of very experienced range employees shoot the gun. Both had a giant grin afterwards, although one commented that his heart was racing afterwards.
View Quote


This is a good decision. Most people who shoot my 18C for first time stovepipe it within a few rounds due to limp wrist, even experienced shooters. While I never had a safety issue, I never gave it to a beginner or child either. I have seen some beginners shoot an 18C, birds & planes are not safe. A couple more seconds they could have shot somebody or themself.

If you are in NTX I would happy to get together and compare notes.
Link Posted: 2/23/2016 11:41:04 PM EST
machine pistols need front grips....just cuz.





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