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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/18/2003 2:33:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2003 2:38:13 PM EDT by OmegaRed]
Hey all. I'm looking to get myself a good pump shotgun for home defense and fun on range. I'm planning on a Mossberg 590A1 with the KNOXX Industries COP Stock and Tactical Sidewinder system. I was just wondering what yall thought about these products? Thanks for your input, and I hope to hear some feedback soon.

John.

PS. Links:

KNOXX COPstock
KNOXX Sidewinder Tactical

BTW, are there any rails out there so I can mount a reflex sight on the top?
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 2:45:15 PM EDT
Oh yes, and this seems to be one of the few things that has a cool factor that is legal in California. (*mutters about democrats in general, our congress-persons in particular*) In all the places I can find, it only lists *semiautomatic* shotguns, but would that mean it would be legal for me to have a shorter than 16 inch barrel? Also, if I put the COPstock on it, will it bring the gun to smaller than the legal overall length, if there is one. I want to make sure Im legal, as I am planning to go into Law Enforcement in a couple of years. Anyways, thanks alot.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 3:05:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2003 3:09:01 PM EDT by Zoub]
They finally got the folder going for the Mossberg too. I have the cop stock on an 870. I do like it and it does reduce recoil. Some guys hate it, because kick is still hard, just reduced, and with a wire stock, it can hurt if you don't shoulder it properly. In IMHO it reduces recoil quite a bit, especially with 2 3/4 loads.

Since your post is titled "first shotgun", and you mentioned home defense, I would say the Knoxx folder is the LAST piece of equipment you need. The drum, next to last.

For true defense, you need a surefire forend first. An extended tube, and you may also want to add a sidesaddle to hold additional shells. You can NOT use a sidesaddle with a knoxx folder. Of course Knoxx would say, don't buy the saddle or extended mag tube, just buy our mag set up, it will work fine with our folder. Big price difference between a mag tube & saddle versus Knoxx mag set up.

Now, can I use your mag set up with a surefire foregrip?

The way to learn how to properly handle and shoot a pump shotgun is not with a folding Knoxx stock on it and HEAVY 10 round drum hanging off the receiver.

If you don't pracitce with a pump gun in "stock" configuration first, you won't know how the Knoxx stuff is affecting your shooting, good or bad.

I may be buying their mag for an 870 when it comes out, but none of this stuff goes on my primary defense gun. And I really dont need 10 rounds if I don't have a light that works with it.

As far as practicing and fun on the range goes, I always practice with the surefire foregrip on because that is how I plan to use it. On the other hand, I own multiple shotguns too.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 3:23:58 PM EDT
I guess I should have mentioned that Ive been shooting rifles since I was six, and shotguns since I was 12, Ive got most the basic skills down pretty good.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 3:41:02 PM EDT
Here is a question for you. Do you want a fun range toy {I.e. the knock stock and mag setup} or a real fighting tool?

From what I have seen a surefire and a good set of sights say the mmc’s are by far the most important things you can add to a shotgun.

The knocks stuff if fun to play with. And in a few years they could be at a point where I would trust my life to them. But they are definitely not there yet. I have seen lot of the knocks stocks break.

NoKarma
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 3:54:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 9:24:17 PM EDT
So, having a 18 inch barrel, and then what happens if I close my stock? Is it then in an illegal configuration?

I'm gonna look more into the surefire in the morning, I just need something that is short and doesn't need much room to operate, I live in a rather small (and cramped) apartment.

John.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 9:34:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2003 9:36:24 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 7:50:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
After you fold the stock the shotgun must still be 26" long from one end to the other. I've got some tight turns in my house too, but I'd still prefer a set up with a stock deployed.



If the gun is still fireable in the folded configuration. There were some folding over/unders that folded in half & probably would be less than 26" with 18" barrels. Not that I foresee anybody using a Italian/Brazilian made over/under as a housegun... The less than 26" usually only becomes an issue on a shotgun with a 18" barrel if it is a double (OU or SxS) or a singleshot with a cut down stock (Choate does make a pistol grip for the old H&R singles).


I'm not a big double barrel fan, but a coach gun MIGHT be worth looking at. Only two shots and no real way to attach a light but they are short.


Duct tape!! The universal fix-it answer. Seriously though, a double will work & in coach gun config is _real_ handy. My Stevens 311 coachgun with 18.25" barrels is actually much, much handier around the house than my Mossberg 20" 8 shot pump with the pistol grip. Just make sure to have a buttstock shell holder on the double, 2 shots only does suck.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 9:18:42 PM EDT
So if I needed/wanted to, I could put a 20" barrel of some sort on a Mossberg with a pistol grip and be legal? Can anyone point me out to a good online store of Mossberg barrels? Thanks for all the input, you guys here really seem to know your stuff, most forums its people who are armchair gun "owners" who give you a bunch of BS for answers.

John.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 3:09:40 AM EDT
My home defense shotgun is just a plain Remington 870 Express with synthetic buttstock and a SureFire forend/light. I also have a nylon shell carrier on the stock with 5 extra rounds of Federal low recoil 00 buckshot and a 4 round Sidesaddle with Federal low recoil slugs in it. I like keeping guns as simple and light as possible, but the SureFire is a must have after using it. Your chances are greater of needing the gun at night anyway, so you better have the means to see your threat.

-Charging Handle
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 2:33:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2003 2:35:45 PM EDT by Zoub]
Look at Brownells or Cabelas for barrels. There are others. If you already have the gun, a gun show can be a good place to get a cheap used barrel. Also online auctions. No FFL transfer is needed for a barrel only purchase.

Make a post in the want to buy section here, everyone has extra barrels. Mine happen to be 870.

Technically you could put on a 20" barrel with no grip and be legal. The distance from the end of a Remington 12 gauge receiver with no grip, to the bolt face when closed is 7 1/4". Now all you have to do is hit a total length of 26" with a minimum barrel length of 18". Hence, 7.25 plus 20.00 equals 27.5 total inches. Any grip is legal then. That is why you see a lot of 18.25 to 18.5 barrels. OAL before adding grip is 25.5 to 25.75" and any grip out there goes at least 1".

Don't build a gun with a pistol grip only. At least buy a folder. If you think you don't have enough room to operate and use cover with the gun on your shoulder, get a pistol. The best weapon with a pistol grip, is a pistol.

PS CHECK California laws. You live in a different country out there.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 9:40:23 PM EDT
I have checked laws extensively via web, but before I buy my gun I plan on consulting a lawyer. And no, I don't plan on getting a pure pistol grip, I plan on the COPstock after I spend a few days with the Mossberg stock.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 4:04:56 PM EDT
I don't want to bust anybody's bubble, but plain and simple is not only more reliable, but cheaper too.

IF (note caps) you ever have to use a fire arm in the defense of your home, please imagine the burglar prepared for court: shaved, tattoos covered in a nice suit, mullet replaced by a conservative haircut, and sitting in a wheelchair and neck-brace while his attourney tries to portray you as the lowest scum of the earth, using your tricked out, camo painted, speed stocked, laser sighted, heat shielded, folding stocked, combat extreme shotgun as exhibit one proof of what a monster you are!

If you don't have the imagination to put yourself in that scenario, go ahead and play the game.

On the other hand, a Remington M870 or M1100 with a walnut stock, and a minimum of external mods may make a very real difference to the uneducated jury that likely has never seen a shotgun up close before.

It's the difference between being seen as a nutcase Rambo joy-killer or a homeowner defending his family with a fowling piece.

Talk to a cop or an attourney who has had civil courtroom experience. Those attourneys will tear you to pieces, and gobble up 60% of everything you own or ever hope to own if they can sell their story to a jury. The other 40% goes to the "victim".


Link Posted: 7/25/2003 12:09:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/25/2003 12:11:58 PM EDT by AZGunnut]
I personally own a 590 A1 w/Ghost ring sights and a 18 1/2 inch barrel! This gun works great in stock form and the only thing I added is the side saddle! If I knew how to put pictures on I would! The point of the A1 is to be a functional defense shotgun right out of the box, and it serves this perpose well! I agree with the Surefire as that is my next purchase but as for the other stuff I'd rather send my gun into Vang Comp and have them do a barrell job! Check out there website www.vangcomp.com they do some awsome work to keep your groups tighter which is also nice in a home defense weapon!
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