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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 4/8/2002 1:16:32 PM EDT
First let me say that I am a supporter of our LEOs. I have a great deal of respect for honest police officers and hope some of you will respond. I recently read an article, (cant remember where unfortunately) that stated a poll was taken of 2000 LEOs and of those 2000 60% said they would use dynamic entry to confiscate any and all firearms if a law was passed preventing private firearm ownership.

I hope that this "report" is just more twisted, liberal, BS typical of the anti-gun lobby, but I wanted to hear from some of you in this forum.

Would you, if ordered, break down the doors of Americans and confiscate their legally owned weapons if a law that blatantly defied the Constitution was somehow passed in your city?
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 4:14:15 PM EDT
To be honest....

I would be looking for another job.

medcop
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 4:18:26 PM EDT
I think the liberals will use laws like they have in California to eventually get rid of firearms. That is they will come up with laws in which you can no longer buy them, pass them down to family members, and you can not bring any into state legally. It will take a generation or two, but you lower the number of firearms greatly with unconstitutional laws like this.

If there was ever a confiscation law passed you would know the time is near. Near for the government to be retired and a new one installed. If even a tenth of the firearms owners resisted there would be a lot of law enforcement officers not going home for dinner. It would be hard to replace officers.

The chances of confiscation in the near future is unlikely. Probably would not happen in our lifetime.

Our greatest weapon against this to get out and vote for pro gun candidates. Also to introduce new people to firearms. Most important is if we do not teach our children the need for firearms we are doomed. Unfortunately, child births of people with conservative ideals and therefore most likely to be pro gun have apparently been falling. We will probably be out breed by the liberals and then they can pass whatever stupid laws they want.

Link Posted: 4/8/2002 4:28:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 4:46:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2002 4:50:37 PM EDT by nm_man]
If i were an LEO, i would probably be looking for another job rather than doing something like that.
However, with that said, it isn't the LEOs who pass the laws! They just enforce what is passed by the legislature. To think that killing a bunch of them as they come to do what they are ordered is going to help things then you are totally crazy!
So, in other words, get off your ass and write some letters, make some phone calls. "I'm just one person, what good will it do?" if all the people who said that actually did something, the legislature wouldn't dare restrict our rights any further.
Case in point: Michigan just passed a shall issue CC law last year. i know my few e-mails are a paltry part of the many, but it does help.



__________________
and he was only 17!
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 5:07:29 PM EDT
Troy, I agree. the powers that be, the duopoly in Washington, are just waiting for guys like us to die off. That is why it is important to pass this heritage on to those so inclined and to our family.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 5:10:41 PM EDT
There are already a ton of laws that blatantly violate the 2nd Amendment; police routinely enforce these illigitimate laws; no citizens have risen up yet.

I bet that the legislators will continue violating the Bill Of Rights, police will continue obeying the legislators, and citizens will continue to take it sitting.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 5:19:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2002 5:20:14 PM EDT by NODDAH]
Every city in every state is almost a country onto itself. However, the Police Academy I was in had only 1/4 of the class with prior firearm experience.

During the 6 mths. at the academy instructors often would drive home the notion that private firearm ownership was wrong. They even road on one fellow who had said he had an SKS. Constantly asking him why he owned it.

I can say with confidence many officers would do it cheerfully.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 5:25:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lostwildcat:
Would you, if ordered, break down the doors of Americans and confiscate their legally owned weapons...



Of course I would. I have a pension and some creampuff, after-hours security jobs that I need to protect. [:\]
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 5:33:20 PM EDT
Troy is right on the money.

In many areas it's still possible to get people elected who pass confiscatory laws. By and large these laws are not currently being used on their own to actively prosecute individual firearm owners. Instead, they are being used in conjunction with other laws, often those of a 'zero-tolerance' nature where officers must either lay charges or face disciplinary actions. This also has the effect of having firearm owners cast in a bad light in the media by virtue of association with other non-firearm criminal charges. Many in law enforcement rationalize this to themselves by saying that 'honest gun owners' aren't being arrested for firearm violations.

That's neither here nor there because whatever the political cost, it has been demonstrated again and again in countries throughout the world that if governments want to steal their citizens' guns, they can. It's easy enough to find most people, and guns are usually in their home.

But why should people have to store guns in their home? No shooting is required to deny theives of whatever stripe your firearms - just keep most or all of them away from your home in a safe, unknown, hidden location. And what's off paper, doesn't exist.

I'm not a LEO, but I have apparently been drafted without pay and against my will to be a 'public agent' (Firearms Act enforcement) and 'peace officer' from time to time. The dummies who designed the Firearms Act made me a public agent - while I'm flying, BECAUSE I'm pilot in command. And therefore, according to the law, I'm curiously more qualified to manufacture prohibited firearms.

If this seems like a long rant, it's because I was on the receiving end of such post-midnight visits. When the dust settled years later, the taxpayers kept one gun in total, my license was restored, no convictions were obtained, and several cops lost their jobs. I'd conservatively estimate that the cost to the taxpayers for stealing that one gun from me was well over a thousand times its purchase price.

Gun owners fight back.

Link Posted: 4/8/2002 6:04:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
Mass dynamic entries aren't gonna happen anytime soon. If they did, they'd only work the first couple of times. After gunowners caught on, there would be LOTS of dead and wounded LEOs.
-Troy



JMHO: Not likely. The media will whip the sheeple into a frenzy, and the fallen LEO heroes will get a 9/11-type boost, and the gun owners will be called terrorists. The number of people who TALK about resisting is tiny. The number of people who would actually DO IT is micro-miniscule (in a population of 250+MM).

Again, JMHO.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 7:05:06 PM EDT
This horse has been beaten to death a number of times already.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 8:10:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2002 8:56:46 PM EDT by Blaze-Of-Glory]

Originally Posted By lostwildcat:
...60% said they would use dynamic entry to confiscate any and all firearms if a law was passed preventing private firearm ownership.

Would you, if ordered, break down the doors of Americans and confiscate their legally owned weapons if a law that blatantly defied the Constitution was somehow passed in your city?


lostwildcat, it's later than you think: Laws already have been passed infringing ownership. Police already have enforced these laws -- breaking doors when met with resistance.

Originally Posted By medcop:
I would be looking for another job.


medcop, (if you are really a cop) when you are commanded to infringe someone's 2nd Amendment Rights (i.e., when you are commanded to enforce the NFA and GCA laws), do you look for another job, or do you obey?

Originally Posted By MatthewDaugherty:
If there was ever a confiscation law passed you would know the time is near. Near for the government to be retired and a new one installed.... there would be a lot of law enforcement officers not going home for dinner...



Originally Posted By Troy:
Mass dynamic entries aren't gonna happen anytime soon. If they did, they'd only work the first couple of times. After gunowners caught on, there would be LOTS of dead and wounded LEOs.


MatthewDaugherty and Troy, the confiscation laws already have been passed. Have you tried owning a post-86 machinegun? Tried owning a post-94 AR15 with a tele-stock? These acts, protected by the 2nd Amendment, would end in gun confiscation, dynamic entry and all.

The 2nd Amendment does NOT say "...the right of the people to bear semi-auto-only arms without tele-stocks shall not be infringed." The government is still going, has not been retired.

Originally Posted By Scrappy:
the powers that be, the duopoly in Washington, are just waiting for guys like us to die off.


Scrappy, the powers are not waiting. They got started in 1934 with the NFA.

Originally Posted By NODAH:
I can say with confidence many officers would do it cheerfully.


NODAH, I believe it. I believe that most officers (and voters) are concerned more with the short-term control of violence and with their own security than with the long-term security of American liberty.

Originally Posted By Carbine_Man:
The number of people who TALK about resisting is tiny. The number of people who would actually DO IT is micro-miniscule (in a population of 250+MM).


Carbine_Man, citizens DID act up when alcohol was banned -- and the government backed down.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 11:39:05 PM EDT
Lostwildcat i'm not an leo so i am posting much like the rest of every body else. The crime in hitler,stalin type goverments wasn't being a german or a russian but in simply turning your head while all this crap took place ,makes you just as guilty as the if you are part of it! Do you think that at any time the law inforcement people of the united states of america are going to partake in an event to dissarm a populace having more arms than they? I for one(and not being preticulary different than most of my fellow memmbers ) have more guns than my small town police force have! Kind of like a small arsenal to arm my whole block in case of invassion from powers feriegn or domestic! But what scares me is that i thought i was special! Hell my neighbor has guns i only wish i had! And who knows what every body else has down the block!!! damn!! So what i'm thinking is you really don't want the job of taking guns from a bunch of old fucks who would either revert back to iwo-gima-viet-nam,saudia, some of these old farts are 91 and have a 1903 just want someone to prop them up to a window when you come to get there argonne forrest gun! Lots of luck !! i think when it comes to that Theres more of us than there is of you!!!!The reason we can't buy no surplus lake city is because there is no such thing as surplus we are going to need it all, hell we may have to donate it back to the gov, bob cole
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 12:14:54 AM EDT
Troy what you said is right on! eventually people will see the bully john wayne so many times in the protected world that people will get desyensecized and think that mattheuw perry is the hero of the day! little by little what it takes to be a man is redefined every day! And guns were needed on the prarrie to kill game and indians, but not in this civilized world! And yes the will of the people will prevail, do you have any children? i bought my 22 year old daughter a star-firestar .45 pistol just in case some guy or girl doesn't respect her personage. So yes Troy we have to spread this belief to our loved ones our familys (my sister lives in seal beach her nor none of my nephews or neices will have anything to do with guns) But you are right we who do have the right to, and do own must make ourselfs totally upright in our communities and stop crime only when we can do it in such a way that we won't lose our right in doing so ,and inform the public at evey chance that we can only by law protect our own lives in the immediate danger of losing our lives ,or our parents,co-worker,or boss (thats the way the law reads in oklahoma) So if you want blanket coverage then you had better wright it into law! i carry but if a gun-man was robbing a store right in front of me three feet from me unless he had a gun at the checkers head and i saw him pulling the trigger back i wouldn't do shit! Because the way its written here its for self defence only! So either rewrite it or go pay your 195.00 get your own ccw. So your right Troy We need to be Very Careful And speak out let the people know every time you get the chance!!!!!
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 12:36:53 AM EDT
To lostwildcat and the rest who think the gun confiscations haven't started yet:

What if the government, rather than going door to door, just keeps adding more guns to the prohibited list (like it did first with machineguns and later with assault-rifles), until ALL new guns are illegal and all the circulating guns break from old age? Would this be acceptable to you? It's happening.

As far as "dynamic entry", isn't that what happened in the extreme at Waco? The cops knew they were up against heavily-armed civilians, so the cops brought tanks.

Did the neighbors rush to the defense of the Branch Davidians? No.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 1:59:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Blaze-Of-Glory:

Originally Posted By lostwildcat:
...60% said they would use dynamic entry to confiscate any and all firearms if a law was passed preventing private firearm ownership.

Would you, if ordered, break down the doors of Americans and confiscate their legally owned weapons if a law that blatantly defied the Constitution was somehow passed in your city?




Originally Posted By medcop:
I would be looking for another job.


medcop, (if you are really a cop) when you are commanded to infringe someone's 2nd Amendment Rights (i.e., when you are commanded to enforce the NFA and GCA laws), do you look for another job, or do you obey?



Blaze,

Yes, I am a Police Officer (Narcotics Officer.) I worked the road before doing what I do now. I can honestly say that the only firearms laws that I enforce / have enforced are:

Felons with firearms
Drunks with firearms
Illegal discharge in a public area (some nut shooting his shotgun in the middle of town)

Typical common sense firearms laws if you ask me.

I am NOT going to check serial numbers to see if a firearm is pre / post ban. I am not going to check someones magazine for the same also. I think most of the firearms laws are BS. Most of the people I work with also feel the same way.

When talking about NFA...Yes, I have taken a "sawed off" shotgun from a person. However, that person was already a felon and in was busted again for a narcotics violation.

I have also taken a handgun from (and arrested) a person once the firearm was discovered concealed in his vehicle. However, the serial number had been ground off (very bad job I should add) and he admitted it was stolen. This was done only after the person was arrested for driving whith a revoked license.

I do not see the above as a violation of someones rights.

I will NOT (if the time ever comes) go door to door (or whatever) and confiscate a persons firearms. I will NOT be involved in a turn in program, buy back, or whatever.

If this ever occured that means someone would also be coming to my home and wanting to take my firearms. I will NOT discuss anything about what I will do with my own firearms when that time comes. Why? Why leave any trace of evidence on a public forum like this.

I say again....If the time comes for confiscation of firearms this is one Police Officer that will NOT do it!

medcop
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 2:45:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2002 3:02:43 AM EDT by Blaze-Of-Glory]
medcop,

I'm glad to hear your answer. The times you've taken a gun, you weren't after just the gun -- you were stopping a serious crime that happened to include a gun (and I appreciate your doing so).

I meet cops (easier to type than "Police Officers" -- no disrespect intended) at the range, and it's obvious that most are well-intentioned. But I imagine (maybe I'm wrong) that most are too concerned with things like:

-- getting paid so they can feed their families
-- saving women and kids from violent criminals
-- not getting shot

to worry much about civil liberties in the long-run. It's reassuring to hear from a cop ("LEO" if you prefer) who is thinking about the big picture.

I know where you stand, but what do you think about the country's LEO's in general? If the feds commanded LEO's to start disarming civilians, do you think most LEO's would obey the feds, or do you think a significant number of LEO's would resist?
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