

Nice work.
My opinion: Your crimp is too heavy and is likely not needed. It's probably also having a negative effect on your accuracy. I suggest a more consistent case length closer to 1.75" and if you insist on crimping use a lighter crimp. The consistent case length will result in a more consistent crimp and more consistent neck tension. All of which is good for accuracy. Look at your fired case mouths. Those nasty looking mouths are from over crimping. The 55gr Hornady FMJ is probably one of the most accurate 55gr FMJ's but it's still limited on how accurate it will shoot. Groups in the neighborhood of 2" is considered pretty good with those. Some rifles will do better but they are not typically a MOA accuracy bullet. If you would only control your case length better using the same everything but change to a better bullet and stop crimping you would see accuracy that would probably amaze you. You've got a great start. With a little refinement you'll be "there" I don't sweat shoulder set back much. With full cam over I'm getting .008" and with this my VTR-15 will shoot 5/8" groups and is not hard on brass. I'd be careful trying to set it back too little. Brass is not consistent some has more resistance to changing size and some has more spring back than others. You don't need .008" like I use but you want enough to have a cushion so you don't end up having it not fit. By the look of your groups it didn't seem to have any significant effect. BTW: Your groups look a lot like the ones I get with the Hornady 55gr FMJ's but mine are shot at 100 yards. Motor |
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Other than the over-crimping, which is a pretty common mistake for a beginner, I'd say you did pretty good.
Motors advice on resizing & crimping is spot on. In regards to seating the bullet to a c.o.l of 2.280. Max c.o.l for .223 is 2.260. For the time being stick with the recommended c.o.l for that bullet which is 2.200. As you gain more experience you can start seating them longer as long as they fit your chamber. Your on the right track, just take it slow and easy and it will all fall into place. |
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Quoted:
. . . Now I got some questions, 1) If I size it 0.002" less than fired brass measurement of 1.460", will it be more precise? Or just aim for 0.003" ? Stay at .003". No effect you can possibly see re accuracy. The closer you get to 0.000 the more likely you are to have feed issues. 2) Below are some unfired 1.73" and 1.75" OL cases, the die was set to sit bullet for 1.75" as a result cannelure does not appear at center of case mouth for 1.73" OL case. My question: what OL is best for accuracy? 1.73? or 1.75? It's extremely unlikely you will see a difference in precision. Choose one and make them all the same. 3) this question is related to #2, if I fine tune all my dies and trim tools to have OL=1.75" or even 1.76" (max spec), and also try to sit bullet so that COL = 2.28", will I get the BEST accuracy because bullet is sitting closer to rifling? Presumably you have measured your mag and concluded it will fit COL=2.28". The bullet (and cannelure location) you are using is designed to be seated at 2.200" when the cases are between SAAMI trim-to and max length. it is extremely unlikely you will see any effect on accuracy . . . and you are quite likely to produce some cartridges that do not fit your magazine. This happens because the shape of all bullets is not the same. Since the seater doesn't push down on the tip, different shapes give different COLs. With these bullets, seat them all 2.200" regardless of case length and don't crimp. 4) this is just my comment, im not the greatest rifleman (yet ![]() 5) All rounds extracted and chambered well, no issues at all. Recoil felt OK (actually I have a feeling that I got less recoil than firing those green tip ammo?? not sure why), fire sound was kinda OK too, nothing suspicious. You are using a starting powder charge and a 55gr bullet. Green tip uses a 62gr (IIRC) bullet and most definitely not a starting powder charge. Mass times Velocity equals Force . . . more Force, more recoil. Save that picture . . . once you increase the powder charge, your fired primers will never look that round again :) 6) Which group has better results? (which HS marker?) If there's a difference, it's unlikely to have been caused on average by the ammo. 7) The primers measured 0.0" after firing, they were firmly sitting there in place as you see, is it ok? (i.e. before firing primers were sit 0.003" to 0.008" deep) The primer pops out at the moment of firing, and is pushed back in when the case follows it back to the bolt face. So it's pretty much guaranteed to be flush. 8) do you have any other comments or maybe I missed something? or anything to add? There's much more to learn, you are on the right track. Precision ni an AR is going to come from a good rifle, cartridges using a great bullet/powdere/cas/charge that your rifle likes, and your ability. thanks to everyone here who was helping, especially dryflash3 ![]() View Quote |
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Quoted:
I was going to ask you how long a string you used to pull the trigger on those first two shots :) View Quote that's how it happened :) Thanks for the advices: * I'll figure out how to crimp properly * I'll try to get consistent headspace and OL --> and COL |
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Sort brass by headstamp.
Trim all to same length. Headspace is least of your worries. Lay off crimp until you get a good load, and only then should you introduce that additional variable. If and when you do crimp, set the bullet seating depth for crimping in the cannelure. |
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is it safe to fire those rounds from my AR15 without bullets crimped?
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Stop trimming your cases so short. I don't care what the SAAMI drawing shows now, 1.73 or 1.74 inches is ridiculous, they are plenty short at 1.75 to 1.755 inches.
The neck needs to grip the bullet well enough to hold it tight, and crimping is not a work around. Let these grow to normal length. If you intend to crimp, then use a taper crimp to get around trimming to identical lengths for a few cycles. I don't recommend mixing headstamps, either. Everyone gets to make their own decisions according to their own needs, and live with the outcomes, too. ETA: Let's use a common language, too. Cartridge Overall Length: COAL Case Length: Just case length, there is no common short cut. The maximum cartridge overall length for use in AR-15 magazines is 2.27 inches. Cases loaded this long will usually drag in the magazine, so some load to 2.26 inches or 2.25 inches. I load bullets that are sufficiently long to 2.26 inches and let the outliers sneak out to 2.265. However, I own one commercial magazine that will not feed a cartridge longer than 2.25 inches. Longer lengths for single loading in an AR or bolt gun are fine, and are common. Just make certain you know where the lands start. The maximum case length for .223 Rem ammunition is 1.76 inches. There are exceptions, and I will not go into the details, they are not appropriate for a new reloader. Plus, the ammunition might be acceptable in one or several rifles, and dangerous in another due to the location of the transition at the end of neck portion of the chamber. |
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Quoted:
So today I loaded my rounds and took it to the range, fired first 2 shots as a test fire, then loaded 20 rounds in groups of 5 and landed bullets on to the target. MY LOAD So Here is brief recall of my load: powder: CFE 223 (starting load, 24.8 gr) Primer: Remington 7 1/2 Bullet: Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT/w cannelure Brass: Mixed range brass + some of brand new unfired brass (HSM 223 brand) ASSEMBLED ROUNDS Here are some of my rounds right before firing: The final parameters are: COL: 2.21" - 2.219" OL: 1.74" Headspace: various for each group, will be shown later http://i.imgur.com/7zIRaTW.jpg RESULTS Here is a result of shooting: http://i.imgur.com/5QiSF1n.jpg The negative number shown as HS marker is indication by how much less the headspace was measured compared to the fired factory brass from same rifle. My factory fired ammo cases measured 1.460". so after sizing I sorted out 4 groups, one was 8 thousands less than 1.460", another 7, 6 and 4th group was 3 thousands less than 1.460" (which is what I supposed to do according to the instructions) CASE INSPECTION After firing I collected all rounds and inspected them, below are the pics: http://i.imgur.com/NiluhWY.jpg Below are pics of primers in fired rounds: http://i.imgur.com/ZmrRuQA.jpg BOLT INSPECTION I inspected the bolt in my rifle, does not seem to be battered or damaged or anything: http://i.imgur.com/KhwEz7B.jpg MY QUESTIONS/COMMENTS Now I got some questions, 1) If I size it 0.002" less than fired brass measurement of 1.460", will it be more precise? Or just aim for 0.003" ? Stay with .003 for an AR. 2) Below are some unfired 1.73" and 1.75" OL cases, the die was set to sit bullet for 1.75" as a result cannelure does not appear at center of case mouth for 1.73" OL case. My question: what OL is best for accuracy? 1.73? or 1.75? Not over crimping will give better accuracy. Do not trim shorter than 1.750, 1.755 is better. http://i.imgur.com/oIR2KjQ.jpg 3) this question is related to #2, if I fine tune all my dies and trim tools to have OL=1.75" or even 1.76" (max spec), and also try to sit bullet so that COL = 2.28", will I get the BEST accuracy because bullet is sitting closer to rifling? In an AR, you will never reach the lands with any mag length (2.260) round. So forget about bolt action techniques with an AR. 4) this is just my comment, im not the greatest rifleman (yet ![]() 5) All rounds extracted and chambered well, no issues at all. Recoil felt OK (actually I have a feeling that I got less recoil than firing those green tip ammo?? not sure why), fire sound was kinda OK too, nothing suspicious. What's to understand? You followed established techniques and got good results. (with the exception of over crimping) 6) Which group has better results? (which HS marker?) Not a concern until you can shoot for accuracy and not worry about other issues. Next range trip shoot for accuracy and concentrate on good groups, shoot at 100 yds. But your results were fine for now. 7) The primers measured 0.0" after firing, they were firmly sitting there in place as you see, is it ok? (i.e. before firing primers were sit 0.003" to 0.008" deep) Forget this nonsense, nobody worries about this. 8) do you have any other comments or maybe I missed something? or anything to add? thanks to everyone here who was helping, especially dryflash3 ![]() View Quote Open the quote window to see all of my comments. I had a lengthy response last night and my modem crashed and I lost the post. Read my response to your FCD thread, it's easy to not over crimp. |
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Welcome to the greatest addiction on the planet,
and congrats on your first loads working well. How long did it take for your butt cheeks to un-pucker? I couldn't sit right for almost two weeks after touching off my first AR loads. As you can see, it's easy to get caught up in the details, and you'll get lots of advice from lots of folks. Everything I've read in comments so far is spot on, and at the risk of inflating their egos, Dry Flash and Motor and very good sources of valid, reliable information. I've followed their sage advice for a couple years now and still have all my fingers and eyes. But, always check and check again on everything. Reloading is fun, want to keep it that way. |
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thanks for all responses, I'm already correcting the crimp.
No I don't have chrono yet. My cartridge length is now 2.215" And as per other's suggestions I'll let the brass grow and try to trim only when it is > 1.55" |
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Quoted:
thanks for all responses, I'm already correcting the crimp. No I don't have chrono yet. My cartridge length is now 2.215" And as per other's suggestions I'll let the brass grow and try to trim only when it is > 1.55" View Quote This is the overall case length, not the case headspace, that dimension is never used for trimming decisions? If you don't own a printed reloading manual, but the latest Hornady manual and read the chapter on the reloading process, and the sections about every cartridge you want to load. Pay attention to all of the details. You don't need a chronograph at this point, just experience. |
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I thought the same thing. That crimp caught my eye first and foremost. Overall you did better than me when I first loaded .223
I'm working on 5.56 EPR M855A1 load now. Defiantly string firing that first round. |
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That's funny. String firing.
You actually have to make a pretty bad mistake to even go half way to proof pressure something like using a max load for a 55 with a 75gr bullet. I'd bet when they do the actual proof pressure testing it's not even done with powder that is used in normal .223/5.56 data. Most of the time it's hard enough just to fit normal top end loads into the casing let alone something that would go 30% over normal operating pressure. Motor |
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Looks good.
As stated they're over crimped. I don't crimp mine at all and it's never been an issue. Keep in mind that you'll have a hard time getting those to shoot less than 2.5 MOA. Guns that like them might get to 2 MOA or slightly less. They just aren't accuracy bullets. |
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Quoted:
That's funny. String firing. View Quote ![]() Also included in the first handload fired was a pile of sandbags and a concrete block wall. I was 100% hulldown. Mucho confidence gained upon seeing that first piece of 22-250 brass had survived in fine shape back in 1996. Congrats OP. Feels good eh? |
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Looks like your getting great advice for improving your 223 reloading process.
You've identified the first modification for improving groups for your rifle too... upgrade the trigger group. You don't have to spend $200+ either. Rock River Arms National Match 2 stage is a good option and you can find it on sale for $75. You'll think your reloads are even better once you have a decent trigger. |
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