Final Assemly questions and Headspace questions

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Final Assemly questions and Headspace questions

Posted: 8/7/2005 11:50:21 AM EDT

ETA: I got the barrel torqued on, easiest step so far. I got everything cleaned for headspacing, but want to make sure I have this right before I order a new LS. Started with a .266 Bolt closed on both guages. Moved to a .268, closes with easy pressure on the go, doesn't close at all on no-go. So .268 is the LS I need right? I remember someone saying something about setback? How does that play in. This is the first rifle I've ever headspaced a rifle, don't want to screw it up and blow my head off. I also screwed on the gas tube nut, but had a hell of a time getting it to thread through the carry handle. It screws all the way in without the handle, and pivots freely in the handle outside of the upper. I finally got it all the way tightened down, but now I can't move the carry handle. Any suggestions?

And how does the gas system work on these? What position does the gas piston plug need to be in? What setting should the adjustment knob be on? Is it trial and error until the rifle cycles properly?

Got my receiver yesterday, hand timed perfectly. Misread the Wecsog website though, needed a 1 1/16" wrench and not an 11/16". Have to wait til I can go back to Sears to get the right one. Tried fitting some parts just to play. It was really hard to fit the upper to the lower. I needed to tap it with a mallet to get it to latch onto the lower, then had to use the mallet to tap the release to get it back off. Normal? Should I even mess with it or leave it as a tight fit between the two?

Posted: 8/7/2005 12:00:54 PM EDT

[#1]

You will likely have to grind a smidgeon off of the inside of the jaws of that wrench to get it to fit, basically about the thickness of the chrome on my craftsman.

That fit seems a bit tight, as i remember there is a way to adjust that latch, i've never had to but i believe there is. The tightest of mine i have to vigourously close them to get it to latch but i've never had to use a tool of any type to open.

Final assembly will be when you drive the proper HS pin into the receiver.

Posted: 8/7/2005 12:02:04 PM EDT

[#2]

As long as you can get it to latch you are OK. If you ask me the tighter the lock up the better. What type of upper are you building off of?

Posted: 8/7/2005 12:51:51 PM EDT

[#3]

Building off an Entreprise Type III upper. So far I'm impressed. Finish was perfect. They were a little slow getting it out to me. Everything seems to fit perfectly.

How do I remove the extractor from the bolt so I can headspace the rifle?

Posted: 8/7/2005 1:08:42 PM EDT

[#4]

My Para build had the tight upper/lower fit in the hinge area. I left it tight. It will wear in. My upper was an Entreprise Type3 also. Don't worry about it.

Posted: 8/7/2005 2:05:20 PM EDT

[#5]

I have a British L1A1 built on a preban Entreprise inch receiver. It has all the true Aussie cuts and it is forged to boot. I couldnt be happier with it.

As for removing the extractor

You can go this route and buy one DS Arms

Or make or own FAL Files

Posted: 8/7/2005 2:29:46 PM EDT

[#6]

I also have a FAL that closes tight and is a bitch to open. I left it tight. It does seem to be loosening up a bit with each cleaning. I certainly wouldn't modify anything as long as your sure the latch does catch properly.

As far as opening up the wrench, I used a sanding drum on a Dremel tool and went very slow as you definitely want it to be a tight fit. Mine was so tight it had to be lightly tapped in place.

Forgot to add, I use a broken off punch to remove the extractor. I know this sound harsh but I just barely snug my bolt in a vise mainly as an extra set of hands. Holding the punch in your fist with the tip sticking out by your small finger insert the punch tip in the extractor plunger hole and pull back. When back far enough the extractor just lifts right out. Its much harder to explain than to actually do and if you saw it it would look easy. After the first time its natural.

Posted: 8/7/2005 4:34:32 PM EDT

[#7]

Spent twenty minutes bending coat hanger, tried it and it just bent. I'll have to go get a punch and try it that way or break down and buy the tool. $25 is a lot for something I'll rarely use though.

Posted: 8/7/2005 5:56:40 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Spent twenty minutes bending coat hanger, tried it and it just bent. I'll have to go get a punch and try it that way or break down and buy the tool. $25 is a lot for something I'll rarely use though.

Just an idea, but why don't you buy it and rent it out at $10 plus shipping?, or several of you go in together and buy it for all to use?

Posted: 8/7/2005 6:01:54 PM EDT

[#9]

spend the $25, with some bolts you can easily disassemble them with a punch or whatever pthers are a beyatch. i think that you should be able to break down the bolt on any firearm you own, that tool makes it a snap.

+1 to what princeton said about tapping the wrench.

-1 to all that seem to be advising you that its okay to have to use a hammer to open your weapon.

Posted: 8/7/2005 7:16:57 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Spent twenty minutes bending coat hanger, tried it and it just bent. I'll have to go get a punch and try it that way or break down and buy the tool. $25 is a lot for something I'll rarely use though.

Just an idea, but why don't you buy it and rent it out at $10 plus shipping?, or several of you go in together and buy it for all to use?

With the kits probably disappearing, I am thinking about renting out the complete set of tools I bought to assemble this thing.

Couple more questions. How tight should the bolt hold open fit in the receiver? I put it all together then had to force it to go up. Now the spring and plunger inside the bolt hold open channel are stuck in the bottom. I pulled it out and polished it up with the dremel and now it slides easier, but I still have the problem with the spring being stuck. Any suggestions? I tried to tap out the roll pin, but it won't budge.

Posted: 8/8/2005 4:11:32 AM EDT

[#11]

this may be a dumb suggestion but did you ensure that you installed the BHO properly? The pin that holds it in, as best as i can remember, seems to be a little difficult to get in there right.

sorry i can't give a more coherent suggestion but my caffene ratio is too low right now.

Posted: 8/8/2005 6:07:05 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
this may be a dumb suggestion but did you ensure that you installed the BHO properly? The pin that holds it in, as best as i can remember, seems to be a little difficult to get in there right.

sorry i can't give a more coherent suggestion but my caffene ratio is too low right now.

Do you mean the assembly of the BHO? I didn't take it apart when I took the kit apart and cleaned it. I put the BHO in and slide the cross pin through it. Took a little coaxing, but it went through. Took it all apart again and the plunger was stuck in the bottom of the BHO.

Posted: 8/8/2005 9:32:22 AM EDT

[#13]

I use a bullet to remove the extactor.
- work on the bolt on a bench or other surface, not in your hand! (trust me

)
- remove the firing pin
- use the bullet tip to retract the extractor spring tube
- remove extractor and spring tube- careful! the extractor spring tube is now unblocked and under spring tension!

- re-install firing pin- this keeps the bolt in the bolt carrier
- headspacing procedure
- re-install in reverse order.

Posted: 8/9/2005 9:59:31 PM EDT

[#14]

Bump with more questions.

Posted: 8/10/2005 2:22:35 AM EDT

[#15]

It seems as thought I heard people saying before the BHO and locking shoulder holes in the Entreprise receivers were very tight. I would personally try to use some lapping compound on the BHO and work it back and forth in the receiver to try to loosen it up. Next I would take a set of dial calipers and mic the locking shoulder hole to insure that it isnt to small or to big. If it border lined either way I would call Lewis and Entreprise and tell him that you want to take full advantage of there lifetime warantee.

As for the plunger in the BHO. Try soaking it in WD-40. If that dont work try and disassemble it and if that dont work get another.

Posted: 8/10/2005 5:43:05 AM EDT

[#16]

Have you tried this site? cruffler.com found it after my first build. barrel thread timing is critical to gas tube alignment. found this out on first build when i couldnt get barrel to lock up in line. had to shim shoulder to reciever to correct. this wiil cause gas tube nut to be tight. also i am a toolmaker so i made a fixture to adjust the shoulder on the barrel to bring it within tightening parameters to the reciever. im thinking the barrel should lock up to the reciever with the front sight about 15 or 20 deg. before tdc. by hand. and then torque the rest of the way to tdc. i did this a little at a time until my gas tube was aligned by continuosly checking with the nut and the gas piston.

Posted: 8/10/2005 6:03:47 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
It seems as thought I heard people saying before the BHO and locking shoulder holes in the Entreprise receivers were very tight. I would personally try to use some lapping compound on the BHO and work it back and forth in the receiver to try to loosen it up. Next I would take a set of dial calipers and mic the locking shoulder hole to insure that it isnt to small or to big. If it border lined either way I would call Lewis and Entreprise and tell him that you want to take full advantage of there lifetime warantee.

As for the plunger in the BHO. Try soaking it in WD-40. If that dont work try and disassemble it and if that dont work get another.

After reading this I recalled I had one receiver that I couldn't get the BHO in. I cleaned out the hole with a drill bit by hand and then it slid right into pace. Probably some junk from the blasting/finishing process.

Posted: 8/10/2005 1:49:14 PM EDT

[#18]

You should either go with the .268 or .267 if you want to compensate for setback. Personally I would just roll with the .268 LS. The "A" should be facing up on your gas plug. "G" will block your gas port. It was designed to use when launching grenades from you rifle. As for the gas setting, I always start around a setting of 4. If that is not enough to extract and eject try a lower setting, if it is extracting and ejecting fine continue to up you setting until you find the optimal setting. All the 21" barrel FALs of mine seem to function at or around 4 or 4 1/2.

Posted: 8/10/2005 2:18:12 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
You should either go with the .268 or .267 if you want to compensate for setback. Personally I would just roll with the .268 LS. The "A" should be facing up on your gas plug. "G" will block your gas port. It was designed to use when launching grenades from you rifle. As for the gas setting, I always start around a setting of 4. If that is not enough to extract and eject try a lower setting, if it is extracting and ejecting fine continue to up you setting until you find the optimal setting. All the 21" barrel FALs of mine seem to function at or around 4 or 4 1/2.

Thanks!!!

Posted: 8/10/2005 3:27:41 PM EDT

[#20]

Another good thing to do before you take the rifle for its first run. Remove the bolt, bolt carrier, and gas piston spring and just simply drop the gas piston through it s normal path of travel to see whether or not it binds up or not.

A little friction will not hurt anything however you may still want to recheck your barrel timing. Binding most likely cause the rifle not to cycle correctly and barrel timing is usually the reason of behing it. That is not always the case though. I have heard of Century Arms receivers actually having the hole that the piston goes through on the receiver off center.

Hope this helps

Posted: 8/11/2005 2:28:23 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
ETA: I got the barrel torqued on, easiest step so far. I got everything cleaned for headspacing, but want to make sure I have this right before I order a new LS. Started with a .266 Bolt closed on both guages. Moved to a .268, closes with easy pressure on the go, doesn't close at all on no-go. So .268 is the LS I need right?

Yep
I remember someone saying something about setback? How does that play in. This is the first rifle I've ever headspaced a rifle, don't want to screw it up and blow my head off.

I've done FALs both ways and there isn't a good answer. One school of thought says to incorporate setback so you 'd go with say a .269 and figure setback would take you back where you want to be. Personally I wouldn't sweat the setback. It won't blowup.

I also screwed on the gas tube nut, but had a hell of a time getting it to thread through the carry handle. It screws all the way in without the handle, and pivots freely in the handle outside of the upper. I finally got it all the way tightened down, but now I can't move the carry handle. Any suggestions?

And how does the gas system work on these? What position does the gas piston plug need to be in? What setting should the adjustment knob be on? Is it trial and error until the rifle cycles properly?

trial and error is the way to do it.

Got my receiver yesterday, hand timed perfectly. Misread the Wecsog website though, needed a 1 1/16" wrench and not an 11/16". Have to wait til I can go back to Sears to get the right one. Tried fitting some parts just to play. It was really hard to fit the upper to the lower. I needed to tap it with a mallet to get it to latch onto the lower, then had to use the mallet to tap the release to get it back off. Normal? Should I even mess with it or leave it as a tight fit between the two?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Final Assemly questions and Headspace questions

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