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1/16/2020 9:48:49 PM
Posted: 7/23/2009 7:37:37 AM EST
I grabbed two boxes of this stuff from WalMart yesterday. I have never heard about it until then. For some reason, they are able to fill it with 4 balls of 000 buckshot whereas a standard Winchester Super-X .410 has only 3 balls of the same size. Why a 33% increase in payload? Also, the top most ball (can't see the rest of them) is copper plated...how does this help?

I am stoked about this ammo. The Super-X sells in 5rd packs only, and is like $1 per shell. This box was less than $12 for 20 rounds, and I get way more for my money (33% more lead).

Has anyone used it? How would it work in a Mossberg 500 .410 with 18" barrel? I plan to stock up on this for my main defensive load on my Mossy, and wondered why it is specifically marketed for the Taurus Judge. Is there something special about it which makes it well suited for a handgun?
Link Posted: 7/23/2009 9:29:33 AM EST
it won't get enough FPS in the judge. it should be plenty from an 18 inch barreled shotgun. most of the "tactical"12g loads are 8 or 9 pellet 00 buck so 4 000 at around 1100 fps should do well. S&B also makes a 3 inch 5 pellet 00 buck 410 shell at about the same speed. that's what i gave mom along with a cut down 19 inch barreled SXS.

OP did a box of truth with the judge. it did not go well. the pellets flattened out and only made it through one jug. remember each brand of shot will not be the same. the pellets from the S&B did not flatten out in my testing. fill a few gallon milk jugs with water and give it a go. if the shot makes it into the 3rd jug it should be fine.
Link Posted: 7/23/2009 10:36:50 AM EST
The Taurus Judge is a joke, I wouldn't even pay any attention to "self defense" loads marketed for it. It's just to make the buyers feel like they've purchased a useful firearm.
Link Posted: 7/23/2009 11:11:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By Joguwa86:
The Taurus Judge is a joke, I wouldn't even pay any attention to "self defense" loads marketed for it. It's just to make the buyers feel like they've purchased a useful firearm.


I don't care about the Judge either...but this is the load I have been looking for. This is the first time I have ever seen .410 buckshot sold in a "bulk" quantity; I only see 5rd packs of it. Well, maybe I have seen a Sellier and Bellot offered in 25rd at the-armory.com before...but its' never in stock. Furthermore, this stuff is 4 pellets of 000 buck instead of 3 pellets of 000 buck which is what Winchester sells for $1 per shell. This stuff is $.60 per shell, and packs in more lead. I'll take it to the range to see how it patterns sometime this summer, and I may start stocking up on it if I like the results.

My current favorite load for .410 in buckshot has been discontinued. It is called homeland defender, and comes in a silverish box similar to the image below. I bought like 30 boxes of it from a local store...it also has 4 pellets in a 2.5" shell, but I don't think they are 000.

This is the logo on the Homeland Defender ammo...GOOD STUFF!!! I would continue to stock it if I found it...but I think the Federal Premium 000 buck in .410 will outperform it.



I hope this is as good...as it is pretty new. It is also cheaper, and a few more trips to WalMart should have me well stocked on .410 for the next decade.
Link Posted: 7/27/2009 1:55:30 PM EST
I am buying the stuff for my .410 Marlin lever action shotgun.
Link Posted: 7/27/2009 2:04:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:
I am buying the stuff for my .410 Marlin lever action shotgun.




Pics and link
Link Posted: 7/28/2009 11:24:53 AM EST
why use a 67 gauge when you can use a 12?
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 6:19:15 PM EST
Is this ammunition handgun only???? the clerk at walmart said you needed a CCW to purchase this stuff but could not tell me whether this was interchangable... The site doesn't say either and I have to guesss you can put it in a modern shotgun but I wasn't absolutly sure if it was super HOT or not......
Link Posted: 9/7/2009 7:09:29 PM EST
IIRC, this load was the huge stink about the Judge required a special payload to be developed to make the handgun into an even semi-useful platform, and if you have to buy special ammo to make the handgun run, why even buy the handgun et cetera et cetera.

I hope this ammo works out of you! Sounds neat.

If a Judge was under $250, I would buy one for my dad to carry around the farm. However, at $500, that's kinda pricey for a pretty restricted range toy...
Link Posted: 9/8/2009 6:14:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2009 6:17:25 PM EST by RogueSpear2023]
Thank you all the Judge bashers, at very close range less than 15ft, which is what most CCW situations are. The Judge is very devastating, even at 5 ft which would even be more common it is a very effective firearm. Now long range, or in your house I prefer 12ga with 00 Buck. I have also found the judge to be a great small game gun for close range situations less than 20ft. I also makes a great snake gun for those that live in the west. But yes those rounds were designed for the judge, but should work in any .410 just fine. Not to mention the Judge can still fire 45LC which is a known man stopping round for longer shots if needed, but here in MN you have to flee if possible, so if the BG is farther away, in MN you should probably be running the other way. And yes I saw the review on BOX-O-Crap, its pretty well know that his tests are some what flawed, beyond the fact the he cut a 3in shell down, his tests were at longer ranges than what the judge was designed for.
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 5:11:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 5:56:00 AM EST
I forgot about this thread...and noticed it got bumped.

I shot 2 boxes at the range (40 rounds) a coupld of weeks ago, and it patterns as good as the Winchester that costs almost twice as much. It fired from my Mossberg .410 home defender pump and there were no problems to speak of. I'll be getting a few more boxes this year to add to the collection.
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 10:47:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By RogueSpear2023:
Thank you all the Judge bashers, at very close range less than 15ft, which is what most CCW situations are. The Judge is very devastating, even at 5 ft which would even be more common it is a very effective firearm. Now long range, or in your house I prefer 12ga with 00 Buck. I have also found the judge to be a great small game gun for close range situations less than 20ft. I also makes a great snake gun for those that live in the west. But yes those rounds were designed for the judge, but should work in any .410 just fine. Not to mention the Judge can still fire 45LC which is a known man stopping round for longer shots if needed, but here in MN you have to flee if possible, so if the BG is farther away, in MN you should probably be running the other way. And yes I saw the review on BOX-O-Crap, its pretty well know that his tests are some what flawed, beyond the fact the he cut a 3in shell down, his tests were at longer ranges than what the judge was designed for.



"And yes I saw the review on BOX-O-Crap" ?????????

What is a "BOX-O-Crap"???
I don't get out enough so that is a new one on me. Please enlighten me.
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 11:06:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 4:00:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By M1Riflenut:
Originally Posted By RogueSpear2023:
Thank you all the Judge bashers, at very close range less than 15ft, which is what most CCW situations are. The Judge is very devastating, even at 5 ft which would even be more common it is a very effective firearm. Now long range, or in your house I prefer 12ga with 00 Buck. I have also found the judge to be a great small game gun for close range situations less than 20ft. I also makes a great snake gun for those that live in the west. But yes those rounds were designed for the judge, but should work in any .410 just fine. Not to mention the Judge can still fire 45LC which is a known man stopping round for longer shots if needed, but here in MN you have to flee if possible, so if the BG is farther away, in MN you should probably be running the other way. And yes I saw the review on BOX-O-Crap, its pretty well know that his tests are some what flawed, beyond the fact the he cut a 3in shell down, his tests were at longer ranges than what the judge was designed for.



"And yes I saw the review on BOX-O-Crap" ?????????

What is a "BOX-O-Crap"???
I don't get out enough so that is a new one on me. Please enlighten me.


He is trying to insult me.

See here: The Box O' Truth - Taurus Judge



It was a weak try... I for one really appreciate your hands on testing and consider you one of the "water carriers" here, and not just another water drinker...
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 4:17:36 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 7:44:46 PM EST
I'm just saying it's very well know on the web that some of what box of truth does is some what not real world. Also I try to take info from many sources not just one, I know you Truth think you know everything and all, you can tell from your reviews. But why would you cut a 3in down to 2 1/2, where do you live the that you couldn't find 2 1/2" buck shot. And I bet even you would not want to be shot with a judge a 5ft, because you wouldn't be standing here talking about, despite your penetration tests. My only question is how many humans are 12 in thick? I guess I would consider that over penetration something you don't want.
Link Posted: 9/9/2009 11:56:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By Robertesq1:

It was a weak try... I for one really appreciate your hands on testing and consider you one of the "water carriers" here, and not just another water drinker...


Many thanks.


As a Judge owner, I thought your review was good. In fact, I bought my Judge after reading your tests and understood its limitations. I bought it as a trail/snake gun for which it is ideal. MUCH more effective than shot caps in a standard .45. The fact you can also load .45 Colt means you can defend yourself from bad critters that walk or crawl with one weapon on the trail. It certainly isn't a concealed carry piece, way too heavy, but works fine in a belt holster. No, I wouldn't carry it into combat.

It seems to me that Taurus markets it as a vehicle gun for car jackers. A load of #4 shot in the face at point blank range would be pretty effective even if the car jacker lived. I read it is Taurus' best selling weapon, so a lot of people are obviously concerned about car jacking.

Basically, it's a niche gun. I think it works great on the trail.

Link Posted: 9/10/2009 6:33:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2009 6:34:32 AM EST by DPeacher]
I picked up a Yildiz .410 SxS earlier this year. It has been a delightful gun to carry afield and to break clay birds with. However, as most folks know, .410 ammo is very expensive when purchased from a retailer, but if you reload, it is far cheaper than any other shotshell. I have a MEC progressive reloader on loan from one of the board members, so I have been reloading for my .410 for a few months now. A few months back I found two 5LB boxes of Hornady 00 Buck (.330"). Four pellets weight ½ ounce and fit nicely in a 2.5" shell. Limited testing at the "Pond-O-Truth ®" indicates good velocity and a tight pattern, but I have not put the load through paper (to verify pattern) or over my chronograph.
Link Posted: 9/10/2009 6:34:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/10/2009 5:04:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2009 5:13:20 PM EST by demusn1979]
Originally Posted By RogueSpear2023:
Thank you all the Judge bashers, at very close range less than 15ft, which is what most CCW situations are. The Judge is very devastating, even at 5 ft which would even be more common it is a very effective firearm. Now long range, or in your house I prefer 12ga with 00 Buck. I have also found the judge to be a great small game gun for close range situations less than 20ft. I also makes a great snake gun for those that live in the west. But yes those rounds were designed for the judge, but should work in any .410 just fine. Not to mention the Judge can still fire 45LC which is a known man stopping round for longer shots if needed, but here in MN you have to flee if possible, so if the BG is farther away, in MN you should probably be running the other way. And yes I saw the review on BOX-O-Crap, its pretty well know that his tests are some what flawed, beyond the fact the he cut a 3in shell down, his tests were at longer ranges than what the judge was designed for.


Good luck here...

Oh and i'm I'm trying the ignore button for the first time.

Link Posted: 9/10/2009 7:28:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By RogueSpear2023:
I'm just saying it's very well know on the web that some of what box of truth does is some what not real world. Also I try to take info from many sources not just one, I know you Truth think you know everything and all, you can tell from your reviews. But why would you cut a 3in down to 2 1/2, where do you live the that you couldn't find 2 1/2" buck shot. And I bet even you would not want to be shot with a judge a 5ft, because you wouldn't be standing here talking about, despite your penetration tests. My only question is how many humans are 12 in thick? I guess I would consider that over penetration something you don't want.


You need to come to an understanding with your keyboard and your lack of knowledge.

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 5:41:58 PM EST
The main difference in the shells that are marketed for a ".410 handgun" are that the powder is made to burn faster to obtain better velocities from a shorter barrel, the shells are designed for easy extraction from a revolver and they squeeze 4 000 pellets into a 2.5" shell instead of the standard 3 pellets. The reason for this is because many Judges only have a 2.5" chamber so the 5 pellet 3" shells aren't an option for these folks. If you have the 3" chamber Judge you are good to go with the 5 pellet shells. These shells will work fine in a standard length .410 shotgun as well.
I appreciate Old Painless work done for the box o truth, many of us have gotten hours of entertainment out of his site. There are two things to keep in mind with the Judge test that was performed. First of all he was limited to cutting a 3" shell down due to ammo availability and second the pellets in the shell tested were dead soft lead... whereas the Federal handgun shells use copper plated pellets which should penetrate better. Maybe one day Old Painless will have a chance to retest the Judge with uncut shells that contain plated buckshot and help put this argument to rest
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 7:41:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 7:43:10 PM EST by RogueSpear2023]
Originally Posted By 223FMJBlack:
The main difference in the shells that are marketed for a ".410 handgun" are that the powder is made to burn faster to obtain better velocities from a shorter barrel, the shells are designed for easy extraction from a revolver and they squeeze 4 000 pellets into a 2.5" shell instead of the standard 3 pellets. The reason for this is because many Judges only have a 2.5" chamber so the 5 pellet 3" shells aren't an option for these folks. If you have the 3" chamber Judge you are good to go with the 5 pellet shells. These shells will work fine in a standard length .410 shotgun as well.
I appreciate Old Painless work done for the box o truth, many of us have gotten hours of entertainment out of his site. There are two things to keep in mind with the Judge test that was performed. First of all he was limited to cutting a 3" shell down due to ammo availability and second the pellets in the shell tested were dead soft lead... whereas the Federal handgun shells use copper plated pellets which should penetrate better. Maybe one day Old Painless will have a chance to retest the Judge with uncut shells that contain plated buckshot and help put this argument to rest


Thank you, this is what I have read and tested with the new shells, this thread refers too, the copper helps out significantly in penetration and the loads don't flatten out like the soft lead ones do, also the velocity is higher due to fast burn powder. This is all I was trying to say but some people on this site don't listen or understand. But the Judge was designed to be a short range weapon less than 20ft, it was not designed to be a 20-25yd gun. As there is no real need for that distance unless military or LEO. How many robbers do you know that tell you to give them your wallet from 20 yds away, or try to take your car at that distance? And yes it is a big gun but the new public defender model has a smaller grip, and shorter barrel, but it is still very wide.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 5:58:41 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 1:35:27 PM EST
yeah it seems to me that the plated shot will hold up MUCH better in the barrel than the unplated soft stuff. I do wonder how much cutting the shells down could have affected the round, but i really dont think its that big a deal. But i would love to see some of the new stuff tested...
Maybe if we all sent O-P a few bucks so he could buy a box and test it?
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