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Posted: 5/22/2005 6:38:20 PM EDT
Anyone know what does this? The round goes about half way up the feedramp and the slide gets stuck halfway into battery. It happened twice in about 180 rounds in a match. I use a shok buff and a lighter recoil spring, now probably less than 14 pounds, round nose 200 gr. bullit at 1.25 OAL.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 6:44:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2005 6:45:22 PM EDT by Mr45auto]

Originally Posted By Linea_de_Fuego:
Anyone know what does this? The round goes about half way up the feedramp and the slide gets stuck halfway into battery. It happened twice in about 180 rounds in a match. I use a shok buff and a lighter recoil spring, now probably less than 14 pounds, round nose 200 gr. bullit at 1.25 OAL.



A buddy's P10? was doing that it turned out he had never cleaned his extractor. You may have a dirty extractor or excessive tension. You must remove the extractor and clean the tunnel every so often.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 6:49:41 PM EDT
The extractor isn't the problem. The empty extracts, but the next round doesn't go into the chamber.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:14:42 PM EDT
The extractor can cause feed problems as the round does not slip up under the hook properly. It's a common cause of failure to feed.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 7:20:57 PM EDT
How do you check for that? The tension on the ejector seems right to me. Pistole has about 10,000 - 15,000 rounds through it.
Link Posted: 5/22/2005 8:07:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2005 8:18:28 PM EDT by Mr45auto]
Have you ever removed the extractor and cleaned the tunnel? If not I guarantee this is an issue. I've seen it many times. Gimme awhile and I'll look up the exact method of checking tension in my shop manual. In the mean time pull it out and clean the tunnel and hook you'll be suprised.

This cannot be properly cleaned unless you remove the extractor from the slide. Spray stuff will not do it.

Okay the manual is clear as mud. Hobbs, where are you?..... I'll IM him and see if he'll weigh in here.

Link Posted: 5/22/2005 9:22:46 PM EDT
Thanks, I know that the extractor needs a little tension against the tunnel.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 4:34:18 AM EDT
Does this only happen with one mag? I have one mag that does basically the same thing. See if this is the case. If so, try changing the mag spring.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:34:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Linea_de_Fuego:
Anyone know what does this? The round goes about half way up the feedramp and the slide gets stuck halfway into battery. It happened twice in about 180 rounds in a match. I use a shok buff and a lighter recoil spring, now probably less than 14 pounds, round nose 200 gr. bullit at 1.25 OAL.



Mr45auto is probably right about the extractor. Does your gun have a ramped barrel? Also, are you running stock mags with good mag srpings? Has this problem just started happening? Also, why are you running a 14lb. spring? Are your loads light? Stock is 16lbs. You can get away with 18.5 in a lot of cases.

Also, just to clarify, the round is getting stuck while entering the chamber, right? I want to make sure the round is not all the way horizontal and just failing to travel the last little bit forward before barrel lock up.

Here are some things to look at. You will want to take the extractor out and make sure it does not have a lot of powder and oil build-up in the groove under the hook. While you're at it, clean the extractor tunnel out.

Look at the groove. Make sure there is a 45 degree bevel at the bottom of the groove for case head lead in. Make sure it is free from any burrs. Look at the face of the hook, and make sure there is a radius on the bottom right corner, as viewed from straight on (orient the extractor as if it were in the gun and the muzzle was pointing toward you).

Going to tension, it sounds like you know how to bend it. Here is how to check for proper tension as best as I can explain. Too tight, and the round will do exactly what you described. Too loose, and you will start having erratic failure to eject. Let's start with a test.

Assemble the extractor into the gun, including the firing pin stop, and you can leave out the firing pin, fp spring, plunger, and plunger spring if you desire. Leave ou the barrel, barrel bushing, and recoil spring system. Look at the breechface and make not of the impression from fired cases, so that you realize where the case head sits when the gun is in battery.

Take a loaded round, or make a dummy round with a dead primer. You are going to put this loaded round under the extractor and shake the slide in a particular manner, and there is the possibility that the round can fall out and detonate if it lands wrong (don't laugh, I've seen it happen once on the range when a guy unloaded his gun over a rubber shooting mat).

So, if you're using a loaded round, dot it over the carpet, or something soft. You can sit down too. On to the test.

Put the loaded round under the extractor rim, sliding it up where it would be in battery. At this point, if the round will not stay put under the extractor and slips out, it's too loose. If it stays there and is very difficult to slide under the extractor rim, it's too tight. You want it to be able to hold the round and not fall out, with the round pointed straight ahead, or even dipping bullet down.

Hold the slide from the muzzle end in your right hand. Keeping the slide perpendicular to the ground, get ready to shake the slide up and down, being careful not to let the rear of the slide move faster than the muzzle. It's important that the slide stay relatively horizontal. Also, when you shake it, or move it up and down, do not come to abrupt stops in either the up or down movement.

Do this a 3 or 4 times. The round must stay under the extractor without slipping out. If the tension is right, the round should have nosed bullet down, but not slipped out or slide down the breechface. If it's still pointing straight ahead, it's too tight.

Without an extractor tensioning tool, it's a trial and error thing, but you should be at the right tension within ten minutes. To sum up, the aim is to get the round to nose bullet down, but still stay under the extractor rim, while gentling moving the slide up and down. You should probably be running a heavier spring too, as long as you are running factory standard loads to slightly light loads.

There are some other things to consider with a malfunction of this type. Dirt is an obvious one, so I will assume your gun is clean. You may have mags with improper relase points. You could have slide velocity problems, which can be caused by one or a combination of factors, such as heavy recoil spring, slide drag on the frame, barrel bushing without enough clearance for proper lock up, batterred barrel lugs top or bottom, cracked frame, lack of proper disconnector bevel on the slide breechface, out of spec disconnector, improper feedramp or barrel throat profile, or lack of a rollover on the barrel ramp itself. Most of these are highly improbable though.

If you have any questions, feel free to IM me. Also, check these links for another point of view.

www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73565

www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/NewsletterArchive.aspx?p=0&t=1&i=33

Link Posted: 5/24/2005 12:47:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2005 12:49:03 PM EDT by Linea_de_Fuego]

Mr45auto is probably right about the extractor. Does your gun have a ramped barrel? Also, are you running stock mags with good mag srpings? Has this problem just started happening? Also, why are you running a 14lb. spring? Are your loads light? Stock is 16lbs. You can get away with 18.5 in a lot of cases.

Yes, the Para has a ramped barrel. I could go with a heavier spring and eliminate the shock buff.
I like how the gun cycles. It has a soft feel to it.


Also, just to clarify, the round is getting stuck while entering the chamber, right? I want to make sure the round is not all the way horizontal and just failing to travel the last little bit forward before barrel lock up.

The round gets stuck at a 45 degree angle. I don't think it even travels up to the ejector. The thing about this is that it happens infrequently, but any at all screws the stage I'm shooting.

Here are some things to look at. You will want to take the extractor out and make sure it does not have a lot of powder and oil build-up in the groove under the hook. While you're at it, clean the extractor tunnel out.

I will check this.

Look at the groove. Make sure there is a 45 degree bevel at the bottom of the groove for case head lead in. Make sure it is free from any burrs. Look at the face of the hook, and make sure there is a radius on the bottom right corner, as viewed from straight on (orient the extractor as if it were in the gun and the muzzle was pointing toward you).

Going to tension, it sounds like you know how to bend it. Here is how to check for proper tension as best as I can explain. Too tight, and the round will do exactly what you described. Too loose, and you will start having erratic failure to eject. Let's start with a test.

Assemble the extractor into the gun, including the firing pin stop, and you can leave out the firing pin, fp spring, plunger, and plunger spring if you desire. Leave ou the barrel, barrel bushing, and recoil spring system. Look at the breechface and make not of the impression from fired cases, so that you realize where the case head sits when the gun is in battery.

Take a loaded round, or make a dummy round with a dead primer. You are going to put this loaded round under the extractor and shake the slide in a particular manner, and there is the possibility that the round can fall out and detonate if it lands wrong (don't laugh, I've seen it happen once on the range when a guy unloaded his gun over a rubber shooting mat).

I have dummy rounds to check this.

So, if you're using a loaded round, dot it over the carpet, or something soft. You can sit down too. On to the test.

Put the loaded round under the extractor rim, sliding it up where it would be in battery. At this point, if the round will not stay put under the extractor and slips out, it's too loose. If it stays there and is very difficult to slide under the extractor rim, it's too tight. You want it to be able to hold the round and not fall out, with the round pointed straight ahead, or even dipping bullet down.

Hold the slide from the muzzle end in your right hand. Keeping the slide perpendicular to the ground, get ready to shake the slide up and down, being careful not to let the rear of the slide move faster than the muzzle. It's important that the slide stay relatively horizontal. Also, when you shake it, or move it up and down, do not come to abrupt stops in either the up or down movement.

Do this a 3 or 4 times. The round must stay under the extractor without slipping out. If the tension is right, the round should have nosed bullet down, but not slipped out or slide down the breechface. If it's still pointing straight ahead, it's too tight.

Without an extractor tensioning tool, it's a trial and error thing, but you should be at the right tension within ten minutes. To sum up, the aim is to get the round to nose bullet down, but still stay under the extractor rim, while gentling moving the slide up and down. You should probably be running a heavier spring too, as long as you are running factory standard loads to slightly light loads.

There are some other things to consider with a malfunction of this type. Dirt is an obvious one, so I will assume your gun is clean. You may have mags with improper relase points. You could have slide velocity problems, which can be caused by one or a combination of factors, such as heavy recoil spring, slide drag on the frame, barrel bushing without enough clearance for proper lock up, batterred barrel lugs top or bottom, cracked frame, lack of proper disconnector bevel on the slide breechface, out of spec disconnector, improper feedramp or barrel throat profile, or lack of a rollover on the barrel ramp itself. Most of these are highly improbable though.


If you have any questions, feel free to IM me. Also, check these links for another point of view.

www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73565

www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/NewsletterArchive.aspx?p=0&t=1&i=33

Thanks for all the advice.
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