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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/24/2001 8:00:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2001 7:55:21 AM EDT by Symtex]
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:03:31 AM EDT
Too bad our government will never let us have one.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:06:13 AM EDT
Twenty round magazine capacity: Sweet! Except we'll never see it unless the ban sunsets. Don't hold your breath.

5.7mm round: If I don't trust a 9mm to do significant damage, why would I trust this round? Does anyone know what the muzzle velocity on this thing is?
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:08:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Twenty round magazine capacity: Sweet! Except we'll never see it unless the ban sunsets. Don't hold your breath.

5.7mm round: If I don't trust a 9mm to do significant damage, why would I trust this round? Does anyone know what the muzzle velocity on this thing is?



its a necked down round like a miniture .223
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:16:07 AM EDT
It's not exactly "new" but you're right, it's a beautiful pistol. I'd chop my big toe off for one of those in my collection. Getting ammo would be a bitch though.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:16:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WOIM:
its a necked down round like a miniature .223



I saw that, and I figure it's pretty zippy, but I don't want to be the beta tester for FN. Until I see some numbers and real-world results, I'll stick to my .45 ACP.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:19:15 AM EDT
I think it is around 2000fps out of the 5/7. 2500 out of the P90. It is make to go through body armor.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:19:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By WOIM:
its a necked down round like a miniature .223



I saw that, and I figure it's pretty zippy, but I don't want to be the beta tester for FN. Until I see some numbers and real-world results, I'll stick to my .45 ACP.



FN claims the round defeats body armor. For certian applications I can see using it over my 45....and you got to love a 20rd flush fit and a 50 round extendaaa mag
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:21:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Twenty round magazine capacity: Sweet! Except we'll never see it unless the ban sunsets. Don't hold your breath.

5.7mm round: If I don't trust a 9mm to do significant damage, why would I trust this round? Does anyone know what the muzzle velocity on this thing is?



www.fnmfg.com/lawenf/ss190/ss190.htm


From the link:
It is a sad commentary on the time we live but the criminal element, which police are facing today, is more and more determined and resourceful. They could be classified as professionals who carefully choose their targets, weapons, and protection, which as the Bank of America and other recent incidents prove often include personal body armor.

This is the reason why FN Herstal developed the 5.7 x 28 mm ammunition for the P90 submachine gun and the Five-seveN pistol.

The round will consistently penetrate 48 layers of Kevlar where all known 9 mm, .40 cal. and .45 cal. bullets will just bounce off. The light weight, high velocity bullet will tumble on impact, ensuring reliable incapacitation without over-penetration.



Muzzle velocity for ball and tracer ammo, listed in the chart on that page, is 2132fps for the 5.7x28mm round from the 57. From the P90, it's 2346fps. Sounds like one potent little round with little recoil.

God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:22:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2001 8:19:24 AM EDT by gardenWeasel]
I'll take mine in 7mm BR
thank you!~
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:24:32 AM EDT
it shoots 'armor peircing' rounds... we'll never be able to own one of those, because heck, we might go shoot cops or something!!

Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:25:04 AM EDT
I think the Ammo has been classified as LE/Mil only by our big brother at BATF. so even if the ban sunsets I dont think us serfs will be able to get them...and FN wont sell to Individual officers..only departments. so I think I will become police chief of a small town or an officer in a small town where there is only me and the chief then convince him to by some for the "DEPARTMENT" hehehee
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:33:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WOIM:

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By WOIM:
its a necked down round like a miniature .223



I saw that, and I figure it's pretty zippy, but I don't want to be the beta tester for FN. Until I see some numbers and real-world results, I'll stick to my .45 ACP.



FN claims the round defeats body armor. For certian applications I can see using it over my 45....and you got to love a 20rd flush fit and a 50 round extendaaa mag



They don't just claim. The FN P90, ugly as sin as it is, was used successfully in the Peruvian embassy seige. All the terrorists were wearing body armor, and the leader was shot through his armor and killed with the P90. The round will penetrate 48 layers of Kevlar up to 200m! That's reduced to 50m with the 57. Also, the SS109 is steel core, not lead.

God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:36:03 AM EDT
The round was designed to defeat body armour from a hand gun size weapon and the pistol is marketed towards military/LE/security/dignitary protection applications. It's for situations where attackers wearing body armour may be a threat but it's impractical to carry a long gun.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:37:58 AM EDT
dont get your panties in a bunch

I didnt know the weapon had been in service as of yet...smooth though...I want one so bad. thanks for the info GBT
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:45:03 AM EDT
Wasn`t this and the p90-mg developed a couple years back to entice military users, and so far hasn`t gone over too good?.......
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:52:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WOIM:
I didnt know the weapon had been in service as of yet...smooth though...I want one so bad. thanks for the info GBT



No problem. I'd love one too, but we'll never see these in civillian hands here anytime soon.

The Five seveN only weighs 1.7lbs, as everything that could be made out of polymer was. Also, the felt recoil of the 22109 round is only 60% of a 9mm round. I'd love to get the chance to shoot one.

God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:56:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas:

Originally Posted By WOIM:
I didnt know the weapon had been in service as of yet...smooth though...I want one so bad. thanks for the info GBT



No problem. I'd love one too, but we'll never see these in civillian hands here anytime soon.

The Five seveN only weighs 1.7lbs, as everything that could be made out of polymer was. Also, the felt recoil of the 22109 round is only 60% of a 9mm round. I'd love to get the chance to shoot one.

God Bless Texas



If I everget into a department that will let me order one for the "DEPT." I'll invite you up for a shoot.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:58:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BlackandGreen:
Wasn`t this and the p90-mg developed a couple years back to entice military users, and so far hasn`t gone over too good?.......



The Five seveN is relatively new, though the P90 has been around for a while. I think the biggest problem with the P90 is that it doesn't look like any other conventional weapon. When I first saw one, I couldn't figure out where you put your hands, but the more I study it the more intuitive the design seems. It's still "ugly" though, and as the 1911A1 proves, most people aren't really interested in change when you can continue to rely on proven and effective designs. However, given the rounds effectiveness, and impending NATO standardization, you'll be seeing more of this round and guns that fire it, though I would assume more pistols than P90's.

God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 10:32:48 AM EDT
Probably not a good candidate for a surpressor, is it? But it's still cool as hell.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 10:54:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2001 10:53:50 AM EDT by cluster]

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
Too bad our government will never let us have one.



Its for your own good, we dont want that weapon getting (by itself) up in the middle of the night and killing a family member,

Im from the Government, Im here to help...

edited to correct the product of a public school education....
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 11:18:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mattja:
Probably not a good candidate for a surpressor, is it? But it's still cool as hell.



There is subsonic ammo for it and a silencer for the P90. Silenced w/ subsonic ammo in the P90 it's supposed to still be able to penetrate kevlar at 50m.

God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 7:19:09 PM EDT
I have read some stuff on this thing.

I'ma gon'a get me one
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 7:25:07 PM EDT

No problem. I'd love one too, but we'll never see these in civillian hands here anytime soon.



I have a buddy who is a class 3 dealer and he is looking at buying a P90, I doubt he would get one if he couldn't get ammo. So just become a class 3 dealer.
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 9:04:41 PM EDT
Are P90s available to the general public? In semi-auto with a 10 rounder?
Link Posted: 10/26/2001 10:43:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
5.7mm round: If I don't trust a 9mm to do significant damage, why would I trust this round? Does anyone know what the muzzle velocity on this thing is?


I understand that it was designed to easily penetrate a level 2 vest. It is also has a flatter trejectory for submachine use.
Link Posted: 10/26/2001 10:59:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas:

Originally Posted By mattja:
Probably not a good candidate for a surpressor, is it? But it's still cool as hell.



There is subsonic ammo for it and a silencer for the P90. Silenced w/ subsonic ammo in the P90 it's supposed to still be able to penetrate kevlar at 50m.

God Bless Texas



As of last year, I believe there were two supressors for the P90: Gemtech and the FN Herstal-designed unit (which may be a private-labeled Gemtech for all I know).

It seemed at least as easy to control in short bursts and as quiet as a suppressed MP5, but I didn't get the chance to put more than 20 rounds through one. Sure is a weird-looking weapon, though.

Besides the SS190 ball (which is claimed to lose lethal effect beyond 400 meters, with the P90 having a maximum claimed effective range of 200 meters), FN also planned to introduce tracer and subsonic (SB193) ammo, with other "law enforcement" rounds in the works.
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 8:02:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hg112:
I think it is around 2000fps out of the 5/7. 2500 out of the P90. It is make to go through body armor.



Dead right! But although it will penetrate a vest, the bullet is designed to be very unstable and has minimal penetration in tissue. The guns are LEO and the ammo is HIGHLY restricted. I heard a rumor about FN considering making the pistol available if one of the ammo co. would step up and make a soft-point(read non-AP) rounds. It's really cool, but I have a hard time being interested in something that the manufacturer has created because they believe johnny law should have it and average joe tax payer should not.
Link Posted: 10/27/2001 9:09:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ckapsl:
Are P90s available to the general public? In semi-auto with a 10 rounder?



I believe LEO/Gov't Only. The Ammo is definitely "restricted"
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 5:55:32 PM EDT
why don't anyone just domesticaly develop a round that out classes FN's and sell it to the common people?
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:12:10 AM EDT
Does the goverment place restrictions on people developing ammunition inside the U.S. or can they only restrict what comes from foriegn countries?
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 9:05:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By biffy:
Does the goverment place restrictions on people developing ammunition inside the U.S. or can they only restrict what comes from foriegn countries?



I could be wrong, but if FN publishes the specs for manufacturing the 5.7mm , anybody in the US could make the round, and then make a gun to chamber it.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 9:43:36 AM EDT
We already have a cartridge that would diplicate the FN's. 221 fireball was introduced around 1965 by Rem for use in the XP-100 pistol.
Based on a shortened 222. 2700 fps with a 50gr bullet out of a 10 1/2 barrel. Now all we is a autoloader that can handle 53,000 CUP.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 11:18:05 AM EDT
now if we can get some one to make a reliable gun to fire it. Many comercial guns are not reliable compared to military models that almost always go bang with descent accuracy.
Link Posted: 11/12/2001 2:38:45 PM EDT
Is the 221 fireball as short as fn's 5.7?
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