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Link Posted: 3/26/2018 12:09:10 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TNVC:

Hmmm, not sure but I never mentioned any names here but we did mention this on our web site description of the BREACH as well. Since we're not allowed to to post direct product links here, but here's is a snip. The night vision is pivoted out of the way while the thermal is used for detection. When a possible target is detected, the thermal is pivoted out of the way and the night vision is brought down to achieve PID (no you can’t use both at the same to “fuze” the images together. Your brain doesn’t work that way. It’s science). While some have contacted us and told us they play with the brightness settings on each to achieve a match to better serve this quasi function while others say it gives them headaches immediately. One thing is for certain, your brain merging a thermal system on one eye (different FOV's, etc.) with NV Tube on the other, compared to your brain merging two I^2 tubes is not even close.

With that said, I get the principle anyways of wearing both technologies at the same time having your eyes look through each one. Good example is when I wear a 14 with both eyes open, I can have my unaided eye look out sorta speak to the darkness and switch back to sorta merge the NV image from what my left eye is seeing. Some folks I talk to still cannot not perform this very well. -shrug- I've done this for a very long time and still really like this over duals when I need my right eye to do other weapons duties etc. Now when I attempt to mount thermal on one eye and I^2 on other, my noodle does not switch over very easily for me at all in this fashion. I also don't like closing one eye over the other to view with this setup but others report they like using it this way. To me, this would be very tiring doing this throughout the night.

For me, I don't mount thermal on my head whatsoever. I either run single or dual I^2's head mounted and keep my thermal scanner in my kit pouch for quick scans, and run either a dedicated NV scope or Triji thermal on my gun for hunting based on the environment I'm in. My hunting partner and I always run thermal on one gun, I^2 on the other. He seems to be leaning toward the "flip up" method of the two dissimilar technologies. Either way, we have options out there for all to have their merry way....
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Lucky for me I have strabismus and only use one eye at a time anyway.
Link Posted: 3/26/2018 12:52:19 PM EDT
@TNVC

Have the PTS536 models started shipping yet? It says shipping in March on your website, we are nearing the end of March. I haven't seen these in consumers hands yet. Just curious as I am interested in picking one up. When do you think I'd realistically be looking at being able to get one?

Also, I am planning making this purchase as a cheaper alternative to a Pulsar xp50 I had on backorder locally for 3 months (I ended up cancelling the order). My intention for this is coyote hunting inside of 200 yds. Do you think I will be happy with this for this purpose, or should I go back to thinking 640 unit with more FOV? I kind of like the 4x optical but not if it means I have a useless FOV.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 3/26/2018 2:06:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2018 2:06:33 PM EDT by EightySecond]
Welcome to the site @EZToForget
Link Posted: 3/26/2018 2:20:11 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By EightySecond:
Welcome to the site @EZToForget
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Thank you, I've only been lurking around here for about 10 years, lol.
Link Posted: 3/26/2018 4:48:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2018 5:01:27 PM EDT by NGI_TOM]
Link Posted: 3/26/2018 7:02:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By NGI_TOM:

Hey EZToForget! Thanks for the great question. Vic at TNVC and I have discussed this topic at length. PID (positive identification)is of the utmost importance when deciding which thermal to purchase with FOV (field of view) being another important factor. If there's one thing Vic is passionate about, it's PID. He's passionate about it because he has good cause to be.

Here's a prime example of why PID is SO important.
Predator Master Forums
This OP was honest and I give him kudos for that but imagine shooting something or someone you didn't intend to shoot because of improper PID .

I hunt for a living. My livelihood depends on my success while afield. I truly believe that there's no substitute for resolution when it comes to proper PID. A 640 resolution thermal core is always the better choice in my opinion. You also typically get more FOV with less inherent magnification which is also important. If you can afford 640, that's what you should get. 320 will work, but you're going to have to get closer. Plain and simple.

The FLIR PTS536 only gives you 22' FOV at 100 yards.
IMO, max PID on a coyote-sized animal is sub 175 yards. Vic says 150 yards or closer because he's ultra conservative.

The PULSAR Trail XP50 gives you 65' FOV at 100 yards.
IMO, max PID on a coyote-sized animal is 325 yards.

The PULSAR Trail XP38 would probably be the perfect combo for your needs. Lots of FOV (85 feet at 100 yards) and PID out to 275 yards.

Hope this helps. Thanks for your question!
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Wasn't my question but I'd been wondering the same thing. Thanks for the thorough response!
Link Posted: 3/26/2018 9:54:16 PM EDT
@NGI_TOM

Thank you so much for the thorough response. This is very helpful to know the estimated PID of these units. You are the second person to tell me to look back at the pulsar units. It's probably what I will do. I'm pretty serious about PID also, I would certainly not want to shoot someone's dog or worse... That would be a truly terrible situation.

One more question. Not to hijack the thread (pm me the response if need be). I'm also looking to get into a PVS 14, mainly for navigation purposes. I have zero experience with night vision other than my photon rt. Say for instance I was to get a tnvc pvs 14 with the L3 unfilmed WP tube. If me or my hunting partner were scanning around with it, what kind of PID distance am I looking at in an open field?

Thanks again for the help, it's very appreciated.
Link Posted: 3/26/2018 10:09:58 PM EDT
If you are serious about PID of coyotes as you say, a pvs14 is not the tool for you. It’s for PID of tree branches in trails 50ft in front of you, and the deer that jump out in front of you10ft away as you run them over.
Link Posted: 3/27/2018 9:07:05 AM EDT
Anyone know if the Breach can be run on a rechargeable equivalent of a CR123A?
Link Posted: 3/27/2018 10:46:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2018 2:26:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2018 3:00:40 PM EDT by Nitrex]
Moose this morning laying in the snow under a tree at 15 yards






A different moose at 25 yards



Link Posted: 3/27/2018 4:01:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2018 4:02:04 PM EDT by EZToForget]
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Originally Posted By NGI_TOM:

The PVS-14 is a great tool for navigation and CQB (close quarters battle). Because of the 1x nature of the PVS-14, max PID on a coyote-sized animal is going to be less than 50 yards with excellent ambient light and much closer without ambient light or IR light. That tool is better suited for shooting bad guys at 21 feet or less.

If you want the best bang for buck in an NV scope with exceptional PID, look at the Bering Optics D-series NV White Phosphor scopes on our website. PID at 500 yards plus with a good IR light. They're incredible!
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Thank you very much for the information!! Very helpful.
Link Posted: 3/27/2018 4:32:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2018 8:47:45 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TNVC:

Sorry for not responding directly to the other thermal questions as well, I have been out of touch for a bit. Glad to see Tom answered. Yes I am VERY conservative with PID numbers, especially when it comes down to therma...

To increase the 1.1x native magnification of the PVS-14, a 3x Afocal magnifier can also be attached the the lens of the PVS to get out to 150 yards for PID of a Yote or hog etc. Thank you.
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No problem at all. Thanks for the input, I hadn't thought of that. I will be going with a thermal first. Currently I'm trying to decide if I should go for the xp50 or bite the bullet and go with a mk3 35mm. But that is for another thread. Thanks again.
Link Posted: 3/27/2018 9:06:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2018 9:07:10 PM EDT by TNVC]
Link Posted: 3/27/2018 9:56:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2018 9:59:42 PM EDT by PA452]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PA452:
Anyone know if the Breach can be run on a rechargeable equivalent of a CR123A?
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In case anyone else was curious, I called TNVC today and was told that it is not recommended, FLIR believes it may damage the core if the voltage gets too low, and if they know that they were used it will void the warranty.

Makes me wonder if this unit is really for me. For how I imagined using it, the Anker battery pack wouldn't be terribly convenient much of the time, and CR123As would be pricey at a battery per hour of use. Decisions...
Link Posted: 3/28/2018 9:07:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2018 9:29:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TNVC:

I apologize this was not answered...They (FLIR) are saying sometime in April. We shall see.

Sorry it's taken me awhile with spotty response, I've been on an off the air with stuff. BUT I did get a FLIR visitor here today and got a first hand look at the 640 12un Boson with a PTS736. Fantastic image, cell phone pics stink of course, but I will try to post one of them if I think worthy. For the inquiry minds, no ETA but more to come on a couple of other cool gadgets I got briefed on.
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I was just thinking I need to ask here today if anyone knows when the 640s will be out?

How about you just post that image regardless of whether not you think it's worthy??
Link Posted: 3/29/2018 5:43:57 AM EDT
C'mon Vic, let's see that picture.
Link Posted: 3/29/2018 6:03:39 AM EDT
Don’t make me say it....

Pics or it didn’t happen! Cough em up.......
Link Posted: 3/29/2018 4:53:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2018 4:56:29 PM EDT by TNVC]
Link Posted: 3/29/2018 6:01:58 PM EDT
New clip on?
Link Posted: 3/29/2018 9:49:13 PM EDT
6.2 native mag seems overboard.
Link Posted: 3/29/2018 10:17:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2018 10:18:45 PM EDT by TNVC]
Link Posted: 3/29/2018 10:43:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TNVC:
I will post a few more tidbits of a sneak peak of another product here shortly. Thank you.
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Eagerly awaiting....

Link Posted: 4/2/2018 6:28:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TNVC:
As mentioned, I had a FLIR Rep here at the main TNVC HQ yesterday. He is what you say "high on the flag pole" position wise at FLIR. We talked about a multitude of topics such as the Breach dovetail out of spec that does not fit the MUM spec dovetails to inventory and lead times of products. What I can tell you is, they (FLIR) are very aware of the long lead times and their Santa Barbara facility which produces their cores are extremely busy with not only Govy commitments, but also the commercial core producibility. They are doing their best getting cores out as fast as they can.

During the visit I was given one of the first public views on the new commercial 640 resolution 12um BOSON units. This was a 75mm 640 system (6.2x native magnification) and the truck below was at approx. 70 yards away. Keep in mind please, this CELL PHONE pick taken through the rear of the unit, was shot during the day at approx. 78deg F, 1300hrs Pacific time. So between cruddy cell phone pics and temps = not optimal results! The image real time was what one comes to expect looking through a 12um Trijicon system, pretty darn jaw-dropping. Of course FINAL refinements to the software and algorithms are still on-going and no release dates were give for the new core, nor pricing etc.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/19096/20180328_134524__4_-498137.jpg

I will post a few more tidbits of a sneak peak of another product here shortly. Thank you.
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Any idea what the ballpark price will be? Similar to the Trijicon MKIII? Less? More?
Link Posted: 4/3/2018 6:41:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TNVC:

I don't think the Triji IR Patrol is overboard. It's one of the best thermal spotters I've used in a commercial device. Just saying...
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I can see it for a scanner just seems like a lot for a scope. I like more mag, as in 3 or 4x. Just seems like most around here cry about and want more fov. Since I posted that I saw some video of the 536 and like it a lot.
Link Posted: 4/3/2018 7:37:04 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tacosis:

I can see it for a scanner just seems like a lot for a scope. I like more mag, as in 3 or 4x. Just seems like most around here cry about and want more fov. Since I posted that I saw some video of the 536 and like it a lot.
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Can you post a link to the 536 video?

Thanks.
Link Posted: 4/9/2018 2:12:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2018 2:13:45 AM EDT by TNVC]
Link Posted: 4/9/2018 2:15:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2018 8:09:35 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TNVC:

I am sorry I forgot about this....A few PM'd me. Another product I got to review was a new 2x magnifier for the Breach. Dummy me did not get pics of the setup, (duh) but took a snap through it below. I'll see If I can round up a pic of the magnifier with the Breach. Trucks about 110 yards away.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/19096/20180328_135117__5_-498136.jpg
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Interesting. Can you say ballpark what length it added or the general size? Any idea what the price tag may be?
Link Posted: 4/10/2018 4:00:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2018 4:52:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2018 4:55:43 PM EDT by dag34]
Would it be safe to assume the double is very similar to the Armasight 2x doubler lens for the Q14?

I would imagine FLIR would just re-brand the same product that already exists.

The Armasight lens was about $800. That germanium ain't cheap.

Here is a Q14 with weapons mount and 2x lens next to a PTS233

Attachment Attached File


And her it is stripped down.
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 4/10/2018 4:53:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2018 4:57:27 PM EDT by JimDudley]
Originally Posted By TNVC:
I will check with Clasky, (he has the Wilcox) mount when he gets back from our training gig in Ohio to confirm.

Edit, IF it takes too much of a grind session, it may not be worth it, but I will defer to him on this.
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Clasky back yet? Any answers?
Link Posted: 4/10/2018 6:53:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2018 7:06:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2018 7:14:05 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:
Pics of the Breach and 2x magnifier. Nothing firm on price yet nor release.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/19096/FullSizeR1001002003004005006007-511079.jpg
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Looking at my breach and trying to figure out how it will attach...there isn't anything there really for it to attach to the way the breach lens is.
Link Posted: 4/11/2018 10:32:16 AM EDT
Will that thing work on a PTS 233 by chance?
Link Posted: 4/11/2018 2:30:18 PM EDT
Would be nice if it did work with the PTS233 but doubt it.
Link Posted: 4/11/2018 3:04:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Heineken:

Looking at my breach and trying to figure out how it will attach...there isn't anything there really for it to attach to the way the breach lens is.
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Interested in this as well.
Link Posted: 4/12/2018 8:49:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/12/2018 7:22:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2018 7:23:35 PM EDT by JimDudley]
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Originally Posted By TNVC_Clasky:
The rails are out of spec, which is disappointing. I don't know if FLIR/Armasight is planning on changing them in the future. The Wilcox MUM Bridge is designed for exact specs on US-produced quick rails. So, some filing with a jewelers file will be required on the Breach rails to get them to fit. I can't tell you how much material to remove because I don't have a unit to work on. But I'd imagine that some light work and trial would do the trick.
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Originally Posted By TNVC_Clasky:
Originally Posted By JimDudley:

Very disappointing, no doubt.
The rails are out of spec, which is disappointing. I don't know if FLIR/Armasight is planning on changing them in the future. The Wilcox MUM Bridge is designed for exact specs on US-produced quick rails. So, some filing with a jewelers file will be required on the Breach rails to get them to fit. I can't tell you how much material to remove because I don't have a unit to work on. But I'd imagine that some light work and trial would do the trick.
I asked Vic the following and he flipped me over to you. Can you answer this?

I would like to have a full and proper image through either the breach or pvs14, easily, and without compromise. The breach screen should be horizontal, and both the breach and pvs14 have a enough range of motion to be adjusted for full screen viewing. And no mounting the breach out of the designed area (ie counting on the out of spec rail to hold the breach). I expect to flip the breach up then flip the pvs14 down, easily, and in reverse too. 

Are you saying the wilcox mum bridge will do this (given an emory board)? Has this been verified by actual testing?
Link Posted: 4/15/2018 12:25:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/15/2018 12:30:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TNVC:
Another pic of the BREACH with it's 2x magnifier.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/19096/FullSizeR1001002003004005006-511078.jpg
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Do you know how it attaches?
Link Posted: 4/15/2018 1:33:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/15/2018 3:23:33 PM EDT
What's the benefit of an optical 2x versus the digital 2x? Aren't you still just magnifying the same number of pixels?
Link Posted: 4/15/2018 7:41:13 PM EDT
The 9mm lens on the breach is so tiny, I am surprised it takes a lens that large just to get 2x.
Link Posted: 4/21/2018 2:10:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2018 2:57:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:
Was told from FLIR our next large batch of PTS233's will not be here till May. Seems the log jam continues. Hopefully we'll get better than expected arrival times. We do have standing orders with the whole PTS line. Next batch of Breaches arrive this week.
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Both the 30 and 60hz?
Link Posted: 4/21/2018 11:26:41 PM EDT
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