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Posted: 3/10/2011 7:37:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2011 4:52:04 PM EDT by scottMO]
So I found a NFA item (sear) that is currently out of state and "on a Form 4".  We agreed on the price and he advised it would also be a 200.00 stamp cost to my SOT ( 2 stamps total).  This orig sounded correct/normal.  When the seller sent me a copy of the most recently transferred form (to help confirm the ownership and S/N), it turns out, the person is a SOT and the sear is on the business name.  Somehow I was still going along w/this and thought this was right, because it "was on a form 4".  Now, when he forwards me a copy of the new form to transfer it to my SOT, its a copy of a Form 3, which is tax free.

Regardless of the current form status or how it was prev transfered to him, the SOT should be able to transfer the possession of the item to my SOT in my state on a tax free form 3 correct?  If that's the case, then the 200.00 tax was paid for nothing and needs to come back to me.

The problem is even more compounded because he has also offered me a host for xx cost, PLUS another 200.00 transfer (because it's "on" a F4).  But with the same scenario above, it should transfer tax free.  The host cost isnt bad, but the cost of another "stamp" changes the overall cost, expecially if it's incorrect.  

I know I'll have the stamps later when I transfer it/these to me, but am I missing something?

Link Posted: 3/10/2011 7:49:01 PM EDT
If the guns are transferring to your dealer on a F3, then he is screwing you out of $200.  Now, it's possible he gave up his SOT and the guns are currently on a F3.  To transfer them out, they would have to go on an F4 since he is no longer an SOT.

If he's still a current SOT, and he's selling from his personal collection, the guns still transfer on a F3.  The only way they would transfer on an F4 is if he is no longer an SOT.

Something doesn't sound right.
Link Posted: 3/10/2011 7:52:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2011 7:53:35 PM EDT by scottMO]
Originally Posted By txyaloo:
If the guns are transferring to your dealer on a F3, then he is screwing you out of $200.  Now, it's possible he gave up his SOT and the guns are currently on a F3.  To transfer them out, they would have to go on an F4 since he is no longer an SOT.

If he's still a current SOT, and he's selling from his personal collection, the guns still transfer on a F3.  The only way they would transfer on an F4 is if he is no longer an SOT.

Something doesn't sound right.


The SOT is still valid as the prev transfer was in nov/10, and the SOT would be paid through june?.
Link Posted: 3/10/2011 8:18:06 PM EDT
It might have been on a F4 from his personal collection.. who knows..
Did you ask him about it?
Link Posted: 3/10/2011 8:35:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2011 8:35:43 PM EDT by scottMO]
Originally Posted By AN94NK:
It might have been on a F4 from his personal collection.. who knows..
Did you ask him about it?


It has the SOT info in the Transferee section of the orig form he sent me (to help convince me he had it)  The SOT info is also listed in the transferer section of the new form that he sent me (as a confirmation of the form sent to BATFE).

I sent him an email earlier this evening asking for clarification, but per the prev pattern of emails, he wont reply until tomorrow day..
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 4:35:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2011 4:36:49 AM EDT by txyaloo]
Originally Posted By scottMO:

The SOT is still valid as the prev transfer was in nov/10, and the SOT would be paid through june?.


Yep.  It should be paid through June.

Sounds like he may not know that he can and should send personally owned transferrables on a Form 3.

Originally Posted By AN94NK:
It might have been on a F4 from his personal collection.. who knows..
Did you ask him about it?


Doesn't matter.  If a dealer sells a personally owned NFA item, even one they had before they received their SOT, it should transfer via a Form 3 to another SOT.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 4:58:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2011 5:07:36 AM EDT by scottMO]
I got a reply and basically was told that the 200.00 tax was to recoup his fee/cost when it was transfered to him, and he thought I knew that in his prev wording.  How am I to know he even paid that and that it wasnt paid by the seller when they made their deal?  Our deal should be completely seperate.  Part of me feels like this was a misunderstanding.  Part of me feels like he told me it was a 2 stamp transfer, and then only after I figured out he's a SOT, then it starts unraveling.  But since "he wants me to be happy", he has offered to include a 200.00 "refund" check w/the approved F3 to my SOT (in abt 6-12 weeks).  

OR To muddy this situation even further, he offered me the host gun for the SAME cost that he prev quoted me (with out lowering it 200.00 to make up for the above issue).   PLUS the host gun will also cost another 200.00 stamp to transfer the gun on a F3 to my SOT, (to again, help recover his cost on the prev deal?).  At this point, I'd just feel better if he'd raise the cost of the gun 200.00 as his selling price and not try to sell me on the fact that part of it is to cover a nonexistant tax..

Arggg....  

Link Posted: 3/11/2011 5:25:34 AM EDT
Sounds kinda shady.



But at least you get a sear out of it!
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 5:33:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Sounds kinda shady.

But at least you get a sear out of it!


I'm happy w/the sear price, but the tax stamp thing just muddied/frustrated the issue a bit.  I was also interested in the mp5 clone host for 1000.00, but now it has another 200.00 "stamp cost".  Now if he would offer me the gun for the final cost of 800.00, (1000.00 minus my 200.00 credit), and no stamp, I'd be in.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 5:36:23 AM EDT
I don't claim any "expert" status, but if you have expenses from previous transactions that you want to recoup, you add them into your selling price.  Telling your customer that there's a $200 fee for a transfer tax when there isn't one is just plain dishonest.

I'm willing to cut people slack because there's always potential for a misunderstanding, but personally I would not do business with this guy again.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 9:18:31 AM EDT
I'd tell him to screw off and keep the host.  He seems to be trying to blow smoke up your ass thinking you're an uninformed buyer.

For all these "extra" tax stamps you're paying for, you could nearly buy a Dakota Tactical 90% German clone host.

If he wants the $200, he needs to raise his selling price.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 10:57:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2011 10:59:12 AM EDT by KaiK]
The first transfer tax is B.S. he got the sear for good deal or he wouldn't have had it transfered to a form 3 in the first place.

Why are you having to pay a $200 transfer tax on the gun is it a sbr? Couldn't you just get a pistol and add a stock once you get the sear?
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 11:34:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2011 11:38:08 AM EDT by scottMO]
update;

I rec'd an apology and a 200.00 refund is being returned directly to me for the "confusion".

The gun in question is a Bobcat Weapons mp5 clone SBR.  

I was hoping to get the gun for 1k, no transfer fee and since I already had a 200.00 credit/refund, it would only be 800.00 more for a sear host.   Before all of this came out, he prev quoted me 1000.00 plus a 200.00 transfer (1st stamp).  He has said I can still have the gun for 1200.00 which he explained is 1000.00 for the gun and 200.00 to cover his prev fee to transfer it to him.  Personally, I'm like the above poster mentioned, just tell me the gun is 1200.00 and transfers tax free, and not the other way around.  It's the same $, but I feel alot better abt it the other way.

FYI- at 1200.00, I've passed on the SBR host.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 12:38:57 PM EDT
Contact Chopstix Kid on HKPRO about one of his builds.  You should get a solid host for an ok price.

There's a gun selling parts kits and Ghillebear is doing builds for $1200 or so.  You're guaranteed to get a gun that runs for that price.  It's the direction I'd go over a used SBR BW5.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 12:40:47 PM EDT
DJ Firearms still has some Coharie clones, too.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 12:58:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2011 7:56:01 AM EDT by scottMO]
I'd have paid 1k and a tax free transfer as it included the bolt/carrier/ recoil rod and an A2 stock too, just not a pack/housing (which I really didnt need anyway).  if you add in a US made pack at $100-200, then you are still 100-300 under the current cost of a new coharie gun in the 1300-1400 range.

DJF is already shipping me one as we speak, a mp5k-fs.

I currently have a mp5 host and a mp5k host.  On the way are 2 more hosts: the above mp5k-FS and also a V-53.  But another one for 1k was probably worth it.  

Ghilliebear's for 1200.00 is a great price too, but it's without the bolt/carrier/recoil rod, handgard and endcap so that figures more into the cost too.  Chopstix's builds are in the 2200-2400 range, but include 700.00 ? or so in HK parts.

Link Posted: 3/12/2011 7:44:34 AM EDT
Sounds like the guy doesn't know what he is talking about. You should get your $200 back.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 7:54:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2011 8:02:36 AM EDT by scottMO]
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Sounds like the guy doesn't know what he is talking about. You should get your $200 back.


I am.  It's on it's way to me now.

I'm still not real sure what to think abt the whole thing.  This starting with the wording of the ad as: "$xx.xx, 100% up front, on a Form 4, buyer responsible for all taxes".  From the start, that put me in the mindset of having to pay 2 stamps as it was an out of state transaction.  It wasnt until I rec'd the email copy of the current form(which was a form 4), that I saw he was a SOT, which made me feel better abt the transaction, but for some reason, I was still in the mindset that  "It's on a form 4 and will still cost 2x stamps".  Then he forwarded the copy of the form 3 to my SOT and that's where I figured it out...  

Link Posted: 4/24/2011 4:51:17 PM EDT
Update:
The 200.00 check was received a few days later.  

New issue:
The F3 was sent mar14th or so.  I found out (on April 22, on my own) that it was actually already approved on April 7th, but I have not heard anything from the transfering dealer yet.  I emailed him yesterday asking him check the status of it to see what the reply is.  I know it's possible he doesnt have the paperwork in hand yet, but 2 weeks to mail it, depending on the examiner, seems excessive.

Link Posted: 4/24/2011 5:33:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By scottMO:
Update:
The 200.00 check was received a few days later.  

New issue:
The F3 was sent mar14th or so.  I found out (on April 22, on my own) that it was actually already approved on April 7th, but I have not heard anything from the transfering dealer yet.  I emailed him yesterday asking him check the status of it to see what the reply is.  I know it's possible he doesnt have the paperwork in hand yet, but 2 weeks to mail it, depending on the examiner, seems excessive.



It might not be. I've had form 3's take a good while to get mailed. Sucks, but such is life. Usually with in a week, but some times up to a month. With some coffee stains no less.
Link Posted: 4/25/2011 10:42:43 AM EDT
Does the dealer your dealing with have any more sears for sale  
Link Posted: 4/25/2011 12:49:41 PM EDT
FWIW, I had to get 2 different form 3s done in the past couple of months.  both took right at 4 weeks.
Link Posted: 4/25/2011 1:16:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SnprPSG1:
Does the dealer your dealing with have any more sears for sale  


No kidding.  The 1st issue was enough, but it was resolved.  I'm hesitant to blame the 2nd issue on the dealer yet, but when he replies, I'll prob know more ..

It will be nice to have it in "MY" SOT's hands and move on...
Link Posted: 4/25/2011 1:31:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SnprPSG1:
Does the dealer your dealing with have any more sears for sale  


Yeah man. I told you it can take him a couple of weeks to reply. He isn't fast, but he is well worth it.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 3:20:44 PM EDT
The transferring dealer contacted me on Tues and let me know that my forms had arrived the prev Friday (coincidentally, that's the same day I called BATFE and found out that it was already approved).  As a final kick in the shorts, he asked me how I wanted it shipped and told me how much it would cost, and asked me how I wanted to pay for the shipping..  I looked backover all of my paperwork/emails and the orig ad posting and we never prev discussed the shipping, so I didnt have much of a choice....  

Bottomline, the sear is in my SOT's hands..  
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 7:57:46 AM EDT
Well, congrats!!!! That's good at least.
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