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Posted: 9/30/2012 6:51:24 AM EDT
While previously, and currently, owning a custom configured FLIR Scout TS24 Pro Thermal Monocular, I just acquired an EMX MK2 Thermal Rifle Scope.

Does anyone have personal experience with them, along with any good pointers regarding their use? Seems to be a good scope, but a bit heavy and bulky, similar to the PVS-4 in the Night Vision grouping of scopes.
Link Posted: 10/2/2012 5:09:51 PM EDT
That alone does not say much because these have existed in ll flavors one can think of - from basic 160x120 FPA standard, through the MK2-A1 with 320x240 detector up to the latest 640x480 FPA (MK2-A-17)
The only thing that puzzles me is the origin of the scope -  I have seen them marketed in Russia by Spektr-AT designated as Granit, albeit with French 384x288 FPA core.
Maybe you could shed some light into this matter.

http://www.spektr-at.ru/catalogue/teplo/granitnew.html

Link Posted: 10/2/2012 5:22:36 PM EDT
No, they are definitely made in the USA. Recently a government agency (Dept. of Energy) put a bunch on the market when they upgraded to newer equipment. The newer model you mention MK2a-A1 has some improvements, but is basically the same model. They are made by L3 Insight. Their subsidiary, Blackwolf Systems, markets and services them, as well as some other related items.  http://www.blackwolfsystems.com/index.html

It's a good scope without all the frills and menus. It even has a RCA output jack on the side of it to video record using a mini DVR recorder.

The Russian model you show the link to, is likely a copy of the EMX design. Heving recently sent one (EMX MK2) in for service, I was advised of the L3 sourcing, as that is where the core must be sent to, if it needs to be rebuilt. In my case the total service work was done by the Blackwolf tech.
Link Posted: 10/3/2012 1:21:09 AM EDT
I have little doubt that it uses an US-made core (as you say L3) because Russian industry currently do not have competitive cores to offer. Their own devices use French-made ULIS cores.

The question I have raised was regarding the housing and optics. So far it looks like these are made by EMX Inc. and then resold to Russia, albeit without the bowels which would fall under ITAR.
Russians the rework the empty MK2 hull with their own electronics working around a French detector and the Granit is born.

BTW, the latest version of Granit-E is not based on the EMX anymore rather than on the IdentifieR series made by Optix Co.
Link Posted: 10/3/2012 5:20:05 AM EDT
All I was saying is that it's not the same scope. While it has a similar appearance, that's where it ends. If you had one to examine closely, you'll see there are subtle deferences even in the outside function and appearance.

It's kinda like the PVS-14. There's a bunch of versions out there, but but fewer originals. There must not be many of these as well, judging by the limited response.
Link Posted: 10/3/2012 5:54:03 AM EDT
The subtle differences you mention are related to the design evolution versions of the MK2, not the differences between the MK2 and the alleged copy.

There are at least four different versions of the MK2 I am aware of. They differ in arrangement of buttons / rotary switches, and most likely even in the objective lens size and overall length
That Spektr thing looks every bit like the #3, in my opinion.

#1 - MK2 most likely the earliest design with two push buttons OFF and ON
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#2 - MK2 - the push buttons were replaced by rotary on/off switch and the body looks shorter in length


#3 - MK2-A - rotary switch and ZOOM and POL buttons. Also note reduced diameter of the objective part.


#4 - MK2-A - like #3, again with different objective lens (especially the grooves on the focusing ring are a good giveaway)
Link Posted: 10/3/2012 8:13:42 AM EDT
Nice examples of the evolution on the EMX scope! They do not show the differences of the Russian scope. Your first picture of the earlier MK2 (like what I have) shows a scope that is incomplete. It is missing the rubber eyepiece, and the weapon mount. It also looks identical to a second one I bought, and just sent in for repair/refurbishing. Even down to the residue on the battery housing!

A curious thing!


Also, you might look at the Blackwolf Site, as it mentions that they do custom fabricating, which explain where the housings for the Russian model came from. As per your previous question. To answer all of it, I'm sure Blackwolf could shed light on the rest as well. Their toll free number is listed on their site.
Link Posted: 10/3/2012 10:27:22 AM EDT
Quoted:
Nice examples of the evolution on the EMX scope! They do not show the differences of the Russian scope. Your first picture of the earlier MK2 (like what I have) shows a scope that is incomplete. It is missing the rubber eyepiece, and the weapon mount. It also looks identical to a second one I bought, and just sent in for repair/refurbishing. Even down to the residue on the battery housing!

A curious thing!

Also, you might look at the Blackwolf Site, as it mentions that they do custom fabricating, which explain where the housings for the Russian model came from. As per your previous question. To answer all of it, I'm sure Blackwolf could shed light on the rest as well. Their toll free number is listed on their site.


Would it be possible to post few pictures of your MK2 to complete the picture? I have only spread into one #1 design ever since and that was the incomplete one.
THere is a certain possibility that the whole design was copied / reverse engineered but I am more leaning towards the idea of Russians buying the housings and optics from the same source..

"
Link Posted: 10/3/2012 10:51:41 AM EDT
Sure thing! From looking at the previous pictures you posted, it is obvious that the incomplete scope (#1) is the same scope I recently purchased. So you are evidently the person I purchased it from, and we are both familiar with it's history. You seem to be much more knowledgeable about the EMX scopes than you let on in our previous eMails.

On another note, Blackwolf systems says they did not fabricate any housings for Russia. They said that Russia is notorious for making copies though.

The pictured scope has some personal mods done to it. I changed the eyepiece from a scalloped open one, to a shuttered one. I also added a non slip surface to the adjustment ring on the objective lens.

http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u592/Omegaxx2/EMX_MK2_zpse5512986.jpg
Link Posted: 10/3/2012 2:51:51 PM EDT
Anyone know where I can find the cable for the EMX? I have a MK2 that I'm thinking about selling, but I want to try to show some pics of the image when using the unit and a cell phone/camera aint just cutting it.

Thanks
Link Posted: 10/3/2012 3:08:23 PM EDT
It takes a standard male to male RCA cable. I run mine into a mini DVR recorder, and it works great!
Link Posted: 10/4/2012 4:00:03 AM EDT
Quoted:
Sure thing! From looking at the previous pictures you posted, it is obvious that the incomplete scope (#1) is the same scope I recently purchased. So you are evidently the person I purchased it from, and we are both familiar with it's history. You seem to be much more knowledgeable about the EMX scopes than you let on in our previous eMails.

Errrr, nope. I am definitely not the person who sold you this scope
It is hard to memorize all images I have ever downloaded but my best bet would be the set of pictures I possess was posted on gunbroker. Not 100% sure, though..

Quoted:
On another note, Blackwolf systems says they did not fabricate any housings for Russia. They said that Russia is notorious for making copies though.

I would not go as far as to claim that Russians make "copies".. it is possible to find some inspiration in US designs in their solutions but to my knowledge they hardly ever make exact 1:1 replicas.
The closest they get to a copy is ATN NVM14 vs Insight MUM or Infratech V-300 Vampire vs SIMRAD KN253 - they are similar but still easily recognizeable from each other even at first look.
Why would they resort to an exact 1:1 replica on exactly that one is beyond me.... but of course it cannot be ruled out.. I will try to find out more about this issue.

Quoted:
The pictured scope has some personal mods done to it. I changed the eyepiece from a scalloped open one, to a shuttered one. I also added a non slip surface to the adjustment ring on the objective lens.

Thanks for the image. A nice rework !!!
Link Posted: 10/4/2012 7:48:13 AM EDT
The Russian version is not a one for one version, as it has a hump on the top of it. I also doubt if it has the RCA video jack on the side. How does it weapon mount?

You yourself mention having the incomplete version pictured in your post (#1). It is curious that you knew it was on Gunbroker at one time, and the picture is actually from when you sold it to me on another auction site. The picture is unique as it was taken at the same time as the listing photos were taken, background and all, but wasn't one of the pictures in the listing. It's hard to believe that you weren't the seller, as how would you get a picture that wasn't online?

If you want to stick to your story, that's fine. I still have plenty of time to resolve the old issues with that scope through the auction site.
Link Posted: 10/4/2012 1:51:47 PM EDT
Quoted:
The Russian version is not a one for one version, as it has a hump on the top of it. I also doubt if it has the RCA video jack on the side. How does it weapon mount?

You yourself mention having the incomplete version pictured in your post (#1). It is curious that you knew it was on Gunbroker at one time, and the picture is actually from when you sold it to me on another auction site. The picture is unique as it was taken at the same time as the listing photos were taken, background and all, but wasn't one of the pictures in the listing. It's hard to believe that you weren't the seller, as how would you get a picture that wasn't online?

If you want to stick to your story, that's fine. I still have plenty of time to resolve the old issues with that scope through the auction site.


Now it suddenly ain't funny anymore...
I suppose you have bought the scope from the US, right? I am from Europe if you haven't noticed.

So how exactly could I get this scope and then sell it to you?
Cut the crap, bud.. I am serious here..
Link Posted: 10/4/2012 2:34:21 PM EDT
Your registration is 5 years old. I'm serious too! This isn't the place to get into a pissin' contest! Just stick to your story, it'll all be settled in the long run!
Link Posted: 10/5/2012 8:14:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/6/2012 2:19:08 AM EDT
Quoted:
Your registration is 5 years old.
Yes it is.. And?

Quoted:
I'm serious too! This isn't the place to get into a pissin' contest! Just stick to your story, it'll all be settled in the long run!

No, we will solve it right here, right now.

I normally do not get involved with jokers like you but your baseless accusations have pretty much pissed me this time.
So I devoted my spare time to look for the origin of the picture just to prove you wrong

Here it is.. It was an eBay auction, after all.
auction link
The picture in question which according to you "wasn't online" is the 3rd last one (or 2nd column, 5th row)

I do hope that you are feeling like a complete fool now.
Link Posted: 10/6/2012 5:15:42 AM EDT
I am aware of the picture you mention, as I am the buyer!  Duh! If you'll look again, you'll see that it is very similar, but the distance and angle is slightly different. But it does have the same background meaning it was taken at the same time.

Your Pic.
http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u592/Omegaxx2/EMXMK2sightp01_zps22a86bac.jpg

Ebay Listing
http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u592/Omegaxx2/eBayListing2_zps34878007.jpg

I told the OP I'd give this a rest, but you seem to insist on continueing. Give it up I'm about to finish it on eBay anyway!
Link Posted: 10/6/2012 1:58:24 PM EDT
Once more...

1. click here
2. click on the large pic of the scope [Click to Enlage]
3. This will reveal complete set of prictures
4. the one you are looking for is in the 2nd column, 5th row
5. It is EXACTLY the same picture I have posted, not just a similar one

In case you are suffering some comprehension problems, I have made you a screenshot.
And yes, I insist on continuing until you have recognized to be wrong.

Link Posted: 10/6/2012 2:19:44 PM EDT
It's fascinating that you persist so much! If it's not you, who cares? I've not even make any serious allegations, other than you are the seller of a scope and have a lot more knowledge of the item, than was given to me by the seller. If you aren't the seller, then you sure bruise easily! There are many coincidences in the story, and I'm not going to play the drama out here!

Give it up man! I've made the necessary moves on the auction site to remedy what's happened, and if you're not the seller, then it shouldn't matter to you!

Hell, you even act guilty! It is what it is, and at this point, it's done................
Link Posted: 10/6/2012 3:02:48 PM EDT
OP Request
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