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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 9/18/2009 1:45:01 PM EST
Rifle Question: Does an extended Barrel shroud or Fake can attachment allow for the physical barrel to be less than 16” legally without being an SBR?

I will try to articulate this the best I can, so please excuse me if I’m not entirely clear.

Hypothetically, let’s say you have a rifle that would normally have a 12” barrel in a bull-pup configuration. Would adding a 4+ inch fake can, shroud or flash hider make this a legal non-SBR?

IF SO;

Would the can/shroud/hider have to be permanently attached, or would a threaded and mounted extension be acceptable under law?

Taking the question further, could the extension be mounted to the receiver instead of the barrel? For example, can a fake can be attached to the receiver of a bullpup of a PS90, instead of the barrel to count as the total overall length? Must the attachment be directly contacting / pinned or threaded to the barrel?

Using the PS90, would having a PS90 with a factory Short Barrel, but a fake can attached to it meet the legal requirements for a non SBR? Conversly, could you attach a fake can, long flash suppressor or extended shroud to a handgun and legally attach a stock?
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:52:16 PM EST
As long as its permanently attached to the barrel (and makes the length over 16 inches) its legal. I dont know about a barrel shroud. I would be careful if it didnt wrap all the way around the barrel itself.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 2:41:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dace:
As long as its permanently attached to the barrel (and makes the length over 16 inches) its legal. I dont know about a barrel shroud. I would be careful if it didnt wrap all the way around the barrel itself.


This.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 3:29:32 PM EST
Quite a few people have permanent cans and shouds attached to the bbl. What I'd find interested in finding out is if a barrel shroud extending out from where the barrel ends would be acceptable.

The example that comes to my mind is the Hera Glock Conversion Carbine. You don't want to put a 16" bbl on a glock because that has a definite negative effect on reliability. Now, if attached to the front of the carbine was a shroud/fake can over where a barrel would go, would that be acceptable if you didn't want to SBR the pistol?
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 4:42:54 PM EST
I'd imagine ATF would come after you for an unregistered SBR and then you get the courts to decide.

If it's not permanently attached to the barrel then I'd say no-go.

Unless, PERHAPS, the barrel is permanently attached to the receiver, and the shroud is also perm attached to the receiver. That'd be a good one for a jury to decide.

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 12:22:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
Quite a few people have permanent cans and shouds attached to the bbl. What I'd find interested in finding out is if a barrel shroud extending out from where the barrel ends would be acceptable.

The example that comes to my mind is the Hera Glock Conversion Carbine. You don't want to put a 16" bbl on a glock because that has a definite negative effect on reliability. Now, if attached to the front of the carbine was a shroud/fake can over where a barrel would go, would that be acceptable if you didn't want to SBR the pistol?


Now that is exactly what im curious about.. It is the perfect example.


Link Posted: 9/19/2009 12:23:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By FredMan:
I'd imagine ATF would come after you for an unregistered SBR and then you get the courts to decide.

If it's not permanently attached to the barrel then I'd say no-go.

Unless, PERHAPS, the barrel is permanently attached to the receiver, and the shroud is also perm attached to the receiver. That'd be a good one for a jury to decide.





Well.. Although i would love to be a trail blazer, ill leave setting legal precedent to someone else.. I have no desire to put jail-time on the line to answer *this* question in particular.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 10:15:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2009 10:18:12 AM EST by dfariswheel]
Its been a while since I kept up on this but as far as I remember, if you permanently attach an extension to a short barrel, its legal.

The key is "permanently attach". This has to be done to BATF standards with blind pins, real high-temp silver brazing or welding.
As long as the extension cannot be easily removed without cutting etc, an extension of most any type is considered to be "the barrel".

Examples of legal short barrels with extensions are the various "Krinkov" AK's with fake cans or extended tubes and the CAR version of the AR-15 carbine that has a 10 1/2" barrel and a 5 1/2" CAR style muzzle attachment welded on.
Years ago, the legal minimum for rifle barrels was 18". At least one Mauser bolt action carbine had 16" to 17 1/2" barrels, so importers simply welded tubes on the barrel to make them the legal 18".

So, "As far as I remember" if you permanently attach some kind of tube or muzzle attachment to a short barrel, that extension becomes part of the barrel and its legal.
If the attachment is in any way "easy to remove" its NOT legal.
The BATF web site has the rules on what is considered "permanent" concerning pinning, brazing, and welding.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 2:11:22 PM EST
TacSol makes a barrel for 10/22 that has a shroud that takes the barrel to 16", but allows you attach a suppressor to a short barrel.

http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=36&idproduct=982
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