Do you think the sales of the Bushmaster ACR have dropped to zero due to the recall?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Do you think the sales of the Bushmaster ACR have dropped to zero due to the recall? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 11/7/2010 1:42:00 PM EDT

I used to want an ACR a year ago but I have since dropped the idea 100% due to the latest recall and complaints of the receiver hex head bolts just popping out. Do you guys think the ACR is the Titanic on its way down? Or do you think folks will still go out and buy them even after the recall?

I kinda feel sorry for all the guys that bought them. $2100+ and a recall is just sad. I bet the guys at Magpul are steaming mad at Bushmaster for screwing up their baby!!!

Posted: 11/7/2010 4:19:15 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
I'd get one if the price was right.

This. For the life of me I can't figure out what it does batter than my AR which is lighter, and cheaper. I'd probably pay $1700 for an enhanced, but not a basic. Prices should come down eventually.

Posted: 11/7/2010 4:44:48 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'd get one if the price was right.

This. For the life of me I can't figure out what it does batter than my AR which is lighter, and cheaper. I'd probably pay $1700 for an enhanced, but not a basic. Prices should come down eventually.

This!

Posted: 11/7/2010 5:54:47 AM EDT

[#3]

Until they chrome line the barrel it won't even be on my wish-list. I can't for the life of me figure why they'd make a weapon that sells for >$2000 with a POS non-chrome lined barrel. It ain't a Hart, Douglas, etc., so it's just a POS non-chromed barrel.

Oh, that and they're insistence on a 1:9 twist is a secondary reason.

Posted: 11/7/2010 6:11:49 AM EDT

[#4]

I prefer my LWRC M6A3. Lighter and piston bugs have been worked out.

Posted: 11/7/2010 7:40:05 AM EDT

[#5]

I think people will still go out and buy the ACR despite the recall. I didn't understand it, when the ACR was first rumored to come out it was the cat's meow with a lot of people here on arfcom. Then there was the price issue, the 1:9 barrel people are unhappy with, and now the unexpected full auto feature. Great on BM to recall all the ACR's and have them fixed, but despite all these issues/problems there's still a huge fan base for the ACR.

Another way to look at the ACR is the love people have for 1911s, such as myself. People spend lots of time and money to get a 1911 to work right. Maybe it's the same way with the ACR?

Would I buy an ACR? Sure...once/if they come out with the 7.62x39 conversion. Hopefully by then the issues that should have been worked out before the release of the ACR have been ironed out. Till then, I'm glad I bought the SCAR

Posted: 11/7/2010 7:49:09 AM EDT

[#6]

I still have alot of interest in a SCAR (in black). I am not a huge fan of reciprocating charging handles but the SCAR still facinates me.

Posted: 11/6/2010 10:05:23 PM EDT

[#7]

Companies have issues with products from time to time. As long as they fix it I wouldn't be too worried. Haven't read about the hex bolts poping out though.

I held an acr a while ago and wasn't that impressed. If they ever get barrel choices out there that don't involve you moving the gas piston parts from the factory barrel I might be interested though. I'd need to see one with the adjustable stock though, the one I played with had the fixed stock that didn't seem that good.

A few other guns have had issues that were just fixed as they happened vs a full recall. Given the choice on a repair as they go or recall and try to fix all of them I prefer the later.

Posted: 11/7/2010 3:44:34 AM EDT

[#8]

I'd get one if the price was right.

Posted: 11/7/2010 11:00:44 AM EDT

[#9]

One day I will own an ACR.

Posted: 11/7/2010 1:55:31 PM EDT

[#10]

I'll get one if it used AK mags

Posted: 11/7/2010 1:59:32 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

I used to want an ACR a year ago but I have since dropped the idea 100% due to the latest recall and complaints of the receiver hex head bolts just popping out. Do you guys think the ACR is the Titanic on its way down? Or do you think folks will still go out and buy them even after the recall?

I kinda feel sorry for all the guys that bought them. $2100+ and a recall is just sad. I bet the guys at Magpul are steaming mad at Bushmaster for screwing up their baby!!!

They already lost probably 80% of the possible sales as a result of being late, costly and not to the specs folks want. Those that had to have it, have it. There is not much market left to lose.

Posted: 11/7/2010 3:17:03 PM EDT

[#12]

It's an $800 rifle selling for $2000+

At that price point I'd rather have an XCR, SCAR, or M1A

Posted: 11/7/2010 3:33:36 PM EDT

[#13]

I would like to get one, but until the price goes below $1500 with a folding stock I will continue to pass.

Posted: 11/7/2010 3:45:01 PM EDT

[#14]

Like I've said before I'd get a SCAR in a heartbeat if I could find extra barrels and bolts for it. I do like the ACR's bolt release better though and the quick change barrel is neat. Reciprocating charging handles don't bother me. They have there pro's and con's like anything else.

Posted: 11/7/2010 5:58:37 PM EDT

[#15]

I don't think it will ever drop to not selling at all. Someone will want one. They keep putting it in video games, people will know the name, and buy them for no other reason then that.

Posted: 11/7/2010 9:36:53 PM EDT

[#16]

I've never heard of any problems with the hex head bolts coming out, got a link?

I have 2200rds through my Acr and it's been perfect.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 11/7/2010 9:54:24 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Until they chrome line the barrel it won't even be on my wish-list. I can't for the life of me figure why they'd make a weapon that sells for >$2000 with a POS non-chrome lined barrel. It ain't a Hart, Douglas, etc., so it's just a POS non-chromed barrel.

Oh, that and they're insistence on a 1:9 twist is a secondary reason.

Don't the barrels have the same coating the internals have, the generic melonite stuff? If so that's completely superior to old school chrome lining.

Posted: 11/7/2010 11:12:05 PM EDT

[#18]

All the recall is:lighter titanium firing pin and heavier spring,not a big deal.First off i bought a scar and it had a bad barrel(adjusted the sights to the point they were almost off the rifle.Shot to the right and wouldn't group).The acr is very accurate and no problems,so don't feel sorry for me,i'm not looking back.

A word about 1 in 9 vs 1in 7 twist for me.I won't be shooting over a hundred yards with the acr(i own other guns with 1 in 7 twist).With 55 grain wallyworld federal ammo this gun shoots great.To achieve the same results(accuracy) with the 1 in 7 twist,i have to use heavier grain bullets,thus coasting more.So to me the 1 in 9 makes more sense.

Anyway recalls and problems can happen to anything at any time and from what i've seen with alot of different gun companies lately,almost everyone has a issue with some model.

Posted: 11/8/2010 12:51:23 AM EDT

[#19]

I haven't heard much about these since they were released. Heard a lot of complaints about them before they were released though.

I wouldn't mind having one, but I would kinda be scared of buying one just because of the issues Ive heard.

Anyone with some first hand experience want to shed some light on them?

Posted: 11/8/2010 1:38:14 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
I haven't heard much about these since they were released. Heard a lot of complaints about them before they were released though.

I wouldn't mind having one, but I would kinda be scared of buying one just because of the issues Ive heard.

Anyone with some first hand experience want to shed some light on them?

Read above.I kept the acr,scar is gone.Btw I'm not against fn,i own a five-seven,fnp-45(which are great) and a ps90 waiting to be sighted in.

Posted: 11/8/2010 2:49:59 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
I haven't heard much about these since they were released. Heard a lot of complaints about them before they were released though.

I wouldn't mind having one, but I would kinda be scared of buying one just because of the issues Ive heard.

Anyone with some first hand experience want to shed some light on them?

Quoted:
I've never heard of any problems with the hex head bolts coming out, got a link?

I have 2200rds through my Acr and it's been perfect.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 11/8/2010 5:47:01 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Until they chrome line the barrel it won't even be on my wish-list. I can't for the life of me figure why they'd make a weapon that sells for >$2000 with a POS non-chrome lined barrel. It ain't a Hart, Douglas, etc., so it's just a POS non-chromed barrel.

Oh, that and they're insistence on a 1:9 twist is a secondary reason.

1:9 twist is a deal breaker. 1:8 or 1:7 and minus a couple hundred bucks and they've got a sale to me.

As for lining. Not a problem. The barrel treatment they're using is tougher than chrome; so don't get hung up on the fact that it isn't chrome lined.

Posted: 11/8/2010 5:50:23 AM EDT

[#23]

The MSAR E4 is a better rifle.

Posted: 11/8/2010 6:32:39 AM EDT

[#24]

Sales have dropped for the same reason SCAR sales have. When you sell a expensive black rifle there just is not a enough market for it unless there is talk of a ban. Most of the black rifle market which is still a very small part of the firearms market in whole anyways, is for a cheap big name standard ARs. Not pistons designs, euro designs, polymer designs or like.

In here (AR15.com) we all think the black market is huge but its just not, there just are not enough customers for major sales. American gun sales are is still largely handguns, .22's, hunting shotguns and rifles.

Just the other day I was at a gun shop they had both the SCAR and the ACR and customers were in agreeing that they we both ugly, this is the true gun customer base.

I've shot the SCAR a lot its a true black rifle shooters gun and I'm sure the ACR is too. But will the rifle do any thing more that my DDM4 with a FSP,lmt rear sight, CTR, MOE grip rifle that people could build for $1200 or less? Now when I go to the range most people there are like wow thats a kick ass gun, to them its the extreme of a black rifle and not like the BM rifle there friends buy at Cabelas. If they think my DD is extreme than what will they think of the ACR or SCAR and what more will they think when they see the price tag of those?

Posted: 11/8/2010 6:39:49 AM EDT

[#25]

3 years ago this gun would have sold like hot cakes, i would have brought one "opening day" but cant justify it in this economy, ill probably pick up a beater in a year or two.

Posted: 11/8/2010 8:15:37 AM EDT

[#26]

I got to see on of the ORIGINAL ACR prototypes back when it was still MagPuls baby and didn't have all the proprietary parts and weighed alot less. I liked it then, thought it was going to be cool as shit and that it was going to be decently priced. Then Bushmaster raped it on the pinball machine and yeah, it still looks kinda nice, is pretty accurate (guy at range had one), but that bitch got heavy! For what it is supposed tp be, it falls short in the face of competition like the SCAR. I haven't had a chance to handle the Remington version but it appears to be more along the lines of what it was meant to be. I think the ACR was a good idea gone wrong. Hopefully,since it appears MagPul is being more careful with the Masada it won't wind up the same way.

Daniel

Posted: 11/8/2010 8:48:31 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
I got to see on of the ORIGINAL ACR prototypes back when it was still MagPuls baby and didn't have all the proprietary parts and weighed alot less. I liked it then, thought it was going to be cool as shit and that it was going to be decently priced. Then Bushmaster raped it on the pinball machine and yeah, it still looks kinda nice, is pretty accurate (guy at range had one), but that bitch got heavy! For what it is supposed tp be, it falls short in the face of competition like the SCAR. I haven't had a chance to handle the Remington version but it appears to be more along the lines of what it was meant to be. I think the ACR was a good idea gone wrong. Hopefully,since it appears MagPul is being more careful with the Masada it won't wind up the same way.

Daniel

You mean the Massoud?

Posted: 11/8/2010 12:11:29 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
The MSAR E4 is a better rifle.

Unless you're left handed

Posted: 11/8/2010 12:16:11 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

I would like to get one, but until the price goes below $1500 with a folding stock I will continue to pass.

That and the bugs are worked out.

Posted: 11/8/2010 12:44:06 PM EDT

[#30]

The problem today isn't with any particular firearm it's a problem with demand overall for high cost consumer goods.

People are hesitant to spend over $1K on any item right now with the economy in a slump. With the GOP now to take the Majority control of the House it appears that there is little concern for possible restrictions to the Second Amendment and that's probably justified.

The firearms that are currently selling and they are selling very well are low cost firearms like concealed carry pistols or shotguns/hunting rifles.

Posted: 11/8/2010 1:12:51 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
All the recall is:lighter titanium firing pin and heavier spring,not a big deal.First off i bought a scar and it had a bad barrel(adjusted the sights to the point they were almost off the rifle.Shot to the right and wouldn't group).The acr is very accurate and no problems,so don't feel sorry for me,i'm not looking back.

A word about 1 in 9 vs 1in 7 twist for me.I won't be shooting over a hundred yards with the acr(i own other guns with 1 in 7 twist).With 55 grain wallyworld federal ammo this gun shoots great.To achieve the same results(accuracy) with the 1 in 7 twist,i have to use heavier grain bullets,thus coasting more.So to me the 1 in 9 makes more sense.

Anyway recalls and problems can happen to anything at any time and from what i've seen with alot of different gun companies lately,almost everyone has a issue with some model.

For a range toy it may not be a big deal. For a 21st century military carbine it is a joke. Titanium firing pins are not acceptable and are a band aid for to BFI engineering incompetence.

1/7" barrels will shoot just as well as 1/9" barrels with 55gr bullets. The 1/9" will not work with the premier loading in .223/5.56mm which are all 75-77gr. Again this is not acceptable on a 21st military carbine.

BFI continues to miss the point. Striving to produce range toy instead of weapons. I do not think Magpul set out to make a range toy. I hope for its sake, that Remington's ACR will not be similarly cursed with a titanium firing pin.

Posted: 11/8/2010 1:42:09 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
All the recall is:lighter titanium firing pin and heavier spring,not a big deal.First off i bought a scar and it had a bad barrel(adjusted the sights to the point they were almost off the rifle.Shot to the right and wouldn't group).The acr is very accurate and no problems,so don't feel sorry for me,i'm not looking back.

A word about 1 in 9 vs 1in 7 twist for me.I won't be shooting over a hundred yards with the acr(i own other guns with 1 in 7 twist).With 55 grain wallyworld federal ammo this gun shoots great.To achieve the same results(accuracy) with the 1 in 7 twist,i have to use heavier grain bullets,thus coasting more.So to me the 1 in 9 makes more sense.

Anyway recalls and problems can happen to anything at any time and from what i've seen with alot of different gun companies lately,almost everyone has a issue with some model.

For a range toy it may not be a big deal. For a 21st century military carbine it is a joke. Titanium firing pins are not acceptable and are a band aid for to BFI engineering incompetence.

1/7" barrels will shoot just as well as 1/9" barrels with 55gr bullets. The 1/9" will not work with the premier loading in .223/5.56mm which are all 75-77gr. Again this is not acceptable on a 21st military carbine.

Well thank you for your opinion,There all range toys unless your going to war tomorrow.If that be the case i'll use my galil,it's not 21st.century but it's the best of both worlds.....and no 1 in 7 twist barrels don't shoot as accurate with 55 grain bullets as 1 in 9 out to one hundred yards.If i'm real serious about it i won't use any of these ar's.That's what the m1a supermatch is for and i prefer it with open sights...with a scope it's boring.

Posted: 11/8/2010 2:46:01 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Well thank you for your opinion,There all range toys unless your going to war tomorrow.If that be the case i'll use my galil,it's not 21st.century but it's the best of both worlds.....and no 1 in 7 twist barrels don't shoot as accurate with 55 grain bullets as 1 in 9 out to one hundred yards.If i'm real serious about it i won't use any of these ar's.That's what the m1a supermatch is for and i prefer it with open sights...with a scope it's boring.

Molon has shown over and over a again that 1/7" barrels will shoot quality 52gr+ .223/5.56mm extremely well. Although I am sure you will come back with .200" 30 round 100 yard groups your 1/9" barrels shoot all day long with XM193BK.

If you are proud to pay out two to three times the going rate of excellent weapons for a mickey mouse engineered wannabe carbine, well then bless you little heart.

Posted: 11/8/2010 3:25:39 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Another way to look at the ACR is the love people have for 1911s, such as myself. People spend lots of time and money to get a 1911 to work right. Maybe it's the same way with the ACR?

Bad comparison, I have a $400 bottom barrel 1911 and it's worked flawlessly out of the box since day one. In fact every 1911 in the house from the original 1917 Army issue, to the Caspian bulls eye gun, to my crappy RIA funtion fine.

With today's modern CAD programs, 100 years of industrial manufacturing teachings, and everything else there's absolutely no reason to put out a firearm that does not work out of the box.

Posted: 11/9/2010 6:11:10 AM EDT

[#35]

Just to be clear...

There are, have, and always will be great firearms that got/get recalled and then perform flawlessly. This is just a hiccup with the ACR platform... it's an easy fix.
Once Bushmaster stops thinking like retards and drops their price, you'll see a lot more being sold.

I've been watching Gunbroker daily and there have already been some great deals on some used ACR's.

$1600 for a used Coyote Brown
$1700 for a used Black ACR with 10 Pmags
$1850 for a used Coyote Brown with both stocks.

Posted: 11/9/2010 4:35:08 PM EDT

[#36]

FN had the same exact problem with the civilian FS2000 slam-firing soft primers. They also had a recall. They had to change the firing pin and add a spring. Seems like FN is doing alright. The ACR is not a 21st century military carbine. It is a 21st century consumer carbine. 1/9 twist is fine for the vast majority of shooters, especially when you take into account that the vast majority has no idea about barrel twists in the first place. I've owned several 1/7, 1/9, & 1/8 barreled weapons. I understand and acknowledge what the different twist rates do for the different bullet weights; and yet, still, for my purposes and the ammo I've always used, there is no appreciable difference with the twist rates.

No configuration will please 100% of the consumer base. It takes time to get accessories to market. The ACR is still "new". It is strange to me that people would complain about an entire weapons system, because the initial configuration wasn't exactly to their personal specification. If I had to accept the first variant of the AR15, I'd be displeased, but with time has come innovation and improvement, accessories and upgrades. We should all be thankful for the early adopters, who fuel the demand for future innovation.

Perhaps you think it easy to bring a brand-new design to market and be able to be competitive with pricing and feature set; I don't. Even now, you can spend more on an AR15 than you would on an ACR: KAC SR15, LWRC, and who knows how many others have rifles starting out over $2000. A $2000+ AR15?!?! The investment in tool, design and research is not cheap. Yet, where are the cries of outrage when a company brings a Direct Gas Impingement AR15 to market, and asks $2000+? The cost of production on an AR15 has got to be an order of magnitude lower than the cost to make an ACR. Yet, somehow new designs are expected to be cheaper than the status quo.

But then, that's just my perspective.

~Icarus

Posted: 11/9/2010 5:00:59 PM EDT

[#37]

I've had my ACR for about 2 months fired a few hundred rounds through it had some issues but nothing that can't be worked out. The cost is what it is but the weight sucks it's a very heavy 5.56 rifle, if it was .308 it would be heavy but at least a full power round. I like the design concept and the fit and finish is quite good but when a scar 17 has got to be a .lb lighter.
Chris

Posted: 11/10/2010 2:15:35 AM EDT

[#38]

I think if Bushmaster makes the changes that some of the owners here have asked for like a chromelined barrel in 1x7 twist and if the cost comes down more, I think in time it will become more popular.

I will wait until I buy one. My price point is around 1700-1800 before I will buy one.

Max

Posted: 11/11/2010 6:48:15 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Until they chrome line the barrel it won't even be on my wish-list. I can't for the life of me figure why they'd make a weapon that sells for >$2000 with a POS non-chrome lined barrel. It ain't a Hart, Douglas, etc., so it's just a POS non-chromed barrel.

Oh, that and they're insistence on a 1:9 twist is a secondary reason.

For the hundredth time, the coating used on the ACR's bbl is SUPERIOR to chrome lining. Look up Nitriding.

Sean

Posted: 11/11/2010 11:39:52 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Until they chrome line the barrel it won't even be on my wish-list. I can't for the life of me figure why they'd make a weapon that sells for >$2000 with a POS non-chrome lined barrel. It ain't a Hart, Douglas, etc., so it's just a POS non-chromed barrel.

Oh, that and they're insistence on a 1:9 twist is a secondary reason.

For the hundredth time, the coating used on the ACR's bbl is SUPERIOR to chrome lining. Look up Nitriding.

Sean

You might have more luck getting through to your dog...he acts like he's interested in what is being said but he's not listening to a word.

Posted: 11/11/2010 1:35:07 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Until they chrome line the barrel it won't even be on my wish-list. I can't for the life of me figure why they'd make a weapon that sells for >$2000 with a POS non-chrome lined barrel. It ain't a Hart, Douglas, etc., so it's just a POS non-chromed barrel.

Oh, that and they're insistence on a 1:9 twist is a secondary reason.

For the hundredth time, the coating used on the ACR's bbl is SUPERIOR to chrome lining. Look up Nitriding.

Sean

You might have more luck getting through to your dog...he acts like he's interested in what is being said but he's not listening to a word.

Point taken.

Posted: 11/11/2010 2:05:27 PM EDT

[#42]

Sales of ACR's to me remain at zero. Whatever the recall is for, it's minor, and not the reason I don't have an ACR.

I'm waiting for the aftermarket to catch up to the ACR. Once Magpul comes out with a Masada conversion kit that takes $500-800 off the price and lightens it up, I'll probably bite.

Posted: 11/11/2010 2:43:17 PM EDT

[#43]

The reason I don't buy an ACR is the same reason I don't buy a SCAR. It doesn't do anything that much better than my AR which so far has cost me $1200. I just can't justify spending that kind of money on a weapon system that doesn't significantly improve on my existing systems.

Posted: 11/11/2010 5:55:20 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
The reason I don't buy an ACR is the same reason I don't buy a SCAR. It doesn't do anything that much better than my AR which so far has cost me $1200. I just can't justify spending that kind of money on a weapon system that doesn't significantly improve on my existing systems.

this

Posted: 11/12/2010 5:10:05 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

The reason I don't buy an ACR is the same reason I don't buy a SCAR. It doesn't do anything that much better than my AR which so far has cost me $1200. I just can't justify spending that kind of money on a weapon system that doesn't significantly improve on my existing systems.

I'm a gun collector so I want one of each!! I have ridiculously impractical guns that are a ball to shoot, i just love this hobby and will own as many different firearms as my budget will allow.

Posted: 11/12/2010 5:15:25 AM EDT

[#46]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to own both an ACR and a SCAR, but there are other guns that are more practical purchases on my fire fighters salary.

Posted: 11/12/2010 3:32:51 PM EDT

[#47]

Posted: 11/12/2010 6:40:06 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The reason I don't buy an ACR is the same reason I don't buy a SCAR. It doesn't do anything that much better than my AR which so far has cost me $1200. I just can't justify spending that kind of money on a weapon system that doesn't significantly improve on my existing systems.

this

It's a fair argument.

Have to do what's smart for you.

Posted: 11/13/2010 2:09:54 PM EDT

[#49]

Remington had a product showcase out here over the summer and they had all of their new stuf there like the R1,bolt guns, and Bushmaster stuff including the ACR. While the ACR was a nice rifle and is accurate it isn't $2300+ nice and the trigger on it sucked out loud. if they dropped the price to around $1500 I would pick one up but until then I will stick with my Stag.

Posted: 11/13/2010 7:23:46 PM EDT

[#50]

I said the ACR was garbage in 2006 and almost got thrown off this site because of it.....

Laughing it up in 2010 when everyone else figured out it is (and still is) garbage....

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Do you think the sales of the Bushmaster ACR have dropped to zero due to the recall? (Page 1 of 2)

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