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Posted: 7/8/2013 9:56:50 AM EDT
I am at work, so I can't offer pictures at this time but when I go to resize the 45 ACP case, the case leans a little to the right in the shell holder and hits the rim of the RCBS die.   It doesn't always do this but enough that I needed to bring it to this forum.   I have tried raising the arm and resizing a case while the RCBS die is loose in the head and then tightening down the set nut so that it maintains the alignment.  When the case is retracted and I try another case, it still leans to the right slightly to catch the lip of the RCBS die.   I then tried to tighten the center bolt on the press so that the revolving turret is seated and tight, but not so tight it wont rotate through the stations.  That didn't help.   Lastly, I've tried to position the metal wire (not sure what it's called) so that it helps guides the case, but if it touches the case, it makes it worse, so I backed it off.   I'd say that maybe the shell plate is off but it happens on all stations of the shell plate.  So maybe it's not just one location but all.  

I'm sure there's a simple fix, I just don't know what.  Rifle cases are not a problem because they are tapered,  It's the straight cases like the 45 ACP that hit.   Any ideas?

I've tried to call dillon this morning but they are not picking up.  Maybe holiday for them still.
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 10:22:10 AM EDT
I'd try taking the shellplate off and cleaning everything in there.  Make sure there is no gunk obstructing anything.  



You've got the toolhead retaining pins in correct?  
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 10:47:58 AM EDT
Correct size retaining pins, and the "paper clip" indexing wire on the first station.

Link Posted: 7/8/2013 11:05:54 AM EDT
I keep a small brush* on hand to remove debris from the shell holder.  It happens, you need to clean it out.  No problem, just do it.


*  It's a cheap, 1/2" wide, natural bristle paint brush with the bristles trimmed to about 3/4" in length.  The stiffer bristles make a nice little cleaning brush out of a cheap brush.
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 11:06:04 AM EDT
Yes, I do have the correct retaining pins.  For the 45 ACP.   It's of no concern where those pins are located on stations 2-4, It just happens in station one.   I have cleaned under the shellplate.  I have some easy glide compound I put under the shell plate that I use on my table saw to preserve and help things slide easy.  I think this allows me to get a more secure fit of the shell plate with no play but still allow easy turning.   The Paper clip indexing pin,  I am not sure I am using it correctly.  It is there but not touching the case,  If it does touch the case, it makes the tilt to the right more pronounced.   Where and how should this be placed?
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 11:33:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
I keep a small brush* on hand to remove debris from the shell holder.  It happens, you need to clean it out.  No problem, just do it.


*  It's a cheap, 1/2" wide, natural bristle paint brush with the bristles trimmed to about 3/4" in length.  The stiffer bristles make a nice little cleaning brush out of a cheap brush.


Use a toothbrush or AR cleaning brush.  MPro-7 helps clean off build up too.

Sometimes a shell plate is not machined right.  It happened to me.  I also have one 9mm station that I had to reduce the O.D. of the brass colored, removeable locater pins.
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 11:36:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/8/2013 11:40:21 AM EDT by delirious1]
well, it did cross my mind that the shell plate was not machined correctly.  I'm on hold with dillon right now.   Not sure how long that will take but I'll mention a replacement if they will.

It just occurred to me that I broke my lyman decapping tool last night.  Probably why it happened. the shell was off center and it tried to make a new hole.  Bet it's the shell plate since it happened on two different dies.   I decap with a separate head with just a stand alone decapper.

In fact, I tried two different heads to see if that made a difference.  Happens on both.
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 12:28:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/8/2013 12:32:40 PM EDT by SteelonSteel]
Originally Posted By delirious1:
well, it did cross my mind that the shell plate was not machined correctly.  I'm on hold with dillon right now.   Not sure how long that will take but I'll mention a replacement if they will.

It just occurred to me that I broke my lyman decapping tool last night.  Probably why it happened. the shell was off center and it tried to make a new hole.  Bet it's the shell plate since it happened on two different dies.   I decap with a separate head with just a stand alone decapper.

In fact, I tried two different heads to see if that made a difference.  Happens on both.


ha, I'm also on hold with Dillon,

yep I found a bad plate by making a perfectly square cross with graph paper, lay the plate on it with the center hole on an intersection, attempt to also line up all 4 stations.  If it won't align, they cut it wrong.  In fact i think my .45 ACP plate is a touch off too.  They replaced the .223 size one for me.

ETA it was the issue while trying to decap the .223rem that first clued me in that there was an issue.

Right now I'm on hold trying to tear down my 550b (80's vintage with no zerks) as my left linkage arm is not free swinging.  (I tore the thing down except the main linkage pivots which are pressed in)  I would rather see if I can drift them out and relube as I'm sure my 1980's lube is a tad dry but I may end up having to send her back.  The drag on the link is bad enough to prevent the shellplate from coming up to the correct level for the primer parts to be right.  I was back tracking the primer issue which led me all the way back to the bound up left link arm.

Link Posted: 7/8/2013 1:05:10 PM EDT
I had the same problem with my .223 cases and it was being caused by a slight bend in the decapping die stem. Make sure it is perfectly straight.
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 1:30:32 PM EDT
could be a loose shellplate, loosen the set screw in the ram, then the big shell plate bolt, turn the shell plate until it binds.



Then back off a skosh, the big shell plate bolt will turn as well.  Then tighten the set screw in the ram and you're done
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 2:19:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/8/2013 2:23:25 PM EDT by delirious1]
Ok,   Here's a picture.  The case is partially loaded into the die.  Just enough to align with the die but no contact with the decapping rod.   Note the space at the bottom of the case on the right side.   If the shell plate is level, then both sides of the case should be in contact with the shell plate.   As is, the case leans right and contacts the die mouth.   I have to manually move it into position.  

I have adjusted the shell plate according to the recommendations.

Link Posted: 7/8/2013 2:33:47 PM EDT
Ha!   Was on hold 40 minutes and got a dillon tech on the line.   Explained my problem and directed him to this website then got disconnected.   So frustrating.    Second 40 minute hold today!
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 3:23:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/8/2013 3:24:29 PM EDT by delirious1]
Ok, just got a hold of dillon.  Evidently there's an alignment tool they are going to send me.   The platform that holds the shell plate is off.    Here's one last photo for you guys if you have the same issue.   Rifle dies are not a problem because the mouth is smaller than the die, whereas straight cases are less forgiving.   I am using an RCBS die and from what dillon said is that their dies have more of a taper to guide the case and the RCBS don't, so they catch.  

Anyway,  look at the case.  Shell plate is centered at its detent with the spring loaded ball under the shell plate.   Look at the spacing on the right vs left from the edge of the case and to the die.   More space on the left, so it catches on the right.   Hopefully the alignment tool they are sending will help

Link Posted: 7/8/2013 3:46:55 PM EDT
When the tool comes, write up a How To, there's already a place holder for it here http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=484
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 5:03:53 PM EDT
There is another alignment test. Hold the  operating lever parallel to the floor. Move it right & left. See if the platform moves.   If a lot of movement, a rebuild is needed. So i was told by Dillon for my old RL 450   An old die  may not have the bevel to help start the brass into the 45 acp carbide die.   http://s338.photobucket.com/user/joe1944usa/library/Firearms%20%20and%20%20Reloading/Dillon%20RL-450%20Manual
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 5:36:14 PM EDT
Link    
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 5:41:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By desto:
Correct size retaining pins, and the "paper clip" indexing wire on the first station.



+1 on the case retaining spring. The contact point needs to be in the case groove not the bottom of the case head.
Your photo shows that it is riding to low.
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 6:11:59 PM EDT
I wish I had seen this earlier.  The alignment tool is what you need.   I just had to do this procedure a while back when I updated my old 550 to the 550B failsafe powder system.   The tool will fix it.
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 8:45:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TurkeyLeg:
I wish I had seen this earlier.  The alignment tool is what you need.   I just had to do this procedure a while back when I updated my old 550 to the 550B failsafe powder system.   The tool will fix it.


Yeppers.

Might as well get the alignment tool and the big nail, to take the press down and realign the ram platter while you're at it.

Chris

Link Posted: 7/8/2013 9:02:17 PM EDT
Thanks for the OP. answered some questions I had as well.
Link Posted: 7/8/2013 9:09:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By basicone:
Originally Posted By desto:
Correct size retaining pins, and the "paper clip" indexing wire on the first station.



+1 on the case retaining spring. The contact point needs to be in the case groove not the bottom of the case head.
Your photo shows that it is riding to low.



+2. Exact same problem I had. Fixed it by adjusting the spring.

Link Posted: 7/8/2013 9:44:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/8/2013 9:46:34 PM EDT by delirious1]
Originally Posted By bigdb1:
Originally Posted By basicone:
Originally Posted By desto:
Correct size retaining pins, and the "paper clip" indexing wire on the first station.



+1 on the case retaining spring. The contact point needs to be in the case groove not the bottom of the case head.
Your photo shows that it is riding to low.



+2. Exact same problem I had. Fixed it by adjusting the spring.




In the photo, the case retaining spring isn't touching anything.   Dillon tech told me that the case spring should not touch at any point on the case.  It should be backed off a hair from the shell plate and its function isn't to hold the case in place rather to help the case advance to the next station.   As explained to me

Dillon is sending me a kit but I don't know what I'll be getting.  The tech said it a rather simple procedure
Link Posted: 7/11/2013 7:23:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2013 7:28:03 PM EDT by delirious1]
I recieved the alignment tool from dillon today.   The shell plate base was indeed off and the problem is fixed.  

First,  remove the shell plate like you do for changing calibers.    Leave the ball and spring in place.    Remove the spring from the primer bar and retract it back away from the press


Now, clear out a head and put the powder die in slot one and slide the alignment tool into the die




Now, you are here



Loose the two Allen bolts that hold the shell base so that it wiggles.   Then raise the press until the alignment tool centers in the hole



Align the shell plate base with the alignment tool until it glides freely on both side.    Also note that you need to tighten the powder die nut to center the alignment tool correctly.

Once you have the alignment right, slip an Allen wrench in one of the other die holes and tighten the base bolts.   Lowered the press and continue to tighten



Once it's tightened and gliding freely with the alignment tool, you can remove the die head and replace the shell plate.   Make sure you readjust the primer bar set screw.  I had to back it out a little because the primer bar was aligned to the improperly aligned shell plate base.

This took me all of 5 minutes to do because I keep a spare die head and powder die around......and I have skills.        The 45 acp case now is properly aligned with the die.  I made no changes to my sizing die.     Moderator, feel free to cut and paste this to a helpful sticky if you need to
Link Posted: 7/11/2013 7:32:46 PM EDT
New position

Link Posted: 7/11/2013 8:05:29 PM EDT
Easy fix, great. I used a large nail on my Dillon RL 450. Dillon would not send me the tool. They wanted to rebuild my press. The alignment fixed it. If i just knew all this before i got internet connection in 2000, i would not had to guide so many 45 ACPs into the sizing die by hand.  
Link Posted: 7/11/2013 10:46:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2013 11:27:47 PM EDT
I posted a link there. Toggle away.   Otherwise, I'm not inspired to do any more.
Link Posted: 7/13/2013 12:19:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/13/2013 2:24:53 AM EDT



Originally Posted By delirious1:


I posted a link there. Toggle away.   Otherwise, I'm not inspired to do any more.


good write up!  I have the tool but never had to use it



FWIW, called Dillon about a broken stainless steel caliper case and they sent me a new one, arrived today!



 
Link Posted: 7/13/2013 11:13:15 AM EDT
i had the same problem with the powder die. its because the pin is not holding the shell perfectly vertical.

i solved the problem by making a small wire coil, about three turns wide, around the shaft of the pin. this holds the pin head about 1/8th of an inch higher, which allows it to rest against the side of the shell a little bit higher. it keeps the empty case perfectly vertical.

i hope this helps!
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