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Link Posted: 6/17/2018 11:09:17 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thehun06:
I think his responses, even though sarcastic...were unprofessional and shouldn't come out of any firearm CEO's mouth...no matter how bad you feel that your platform is choking and not living up to the expectations that were set to the marketplace.

The MDR is nothing but a niche, bench shooting gun for tactical pajama ninjas that want to be cool with their friends...can it be a serious battle rifle...it certainly has the design to do so...but there are still many issues (which can be solved) that compounds into a snow ball effect.

So far, I think there is only one reported user that has over 700 rounds of trouble free shooting with the MDR outside of DT facility...everyone else has not even come close to that. Those are not very good odds. I know if I had a good working MDR...I would be reporting it all over the internet to help out the brand. Not very good odds.

You ever wonder why well known online bloggers haven't really reviewed the MDR? or just random users making videos about it? It has been released for quite a while....

Remember the In Range video...they stated that all preorders will be filled by May....well its June......still nothing.
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I really don’t shoot 308 that much but I have roughly 600-700 Rounds without a issue. I also offered mine to the inrange guys to test it out but I think they really aren’t interested in the 308 version. I plan to use it at a two gun match but I’m not going to make the next one. Also I have not bought the upgraded gas port as I haven’t had any issues yet. Ammo so far is mostly sig, federal, and hornady. I will say that it is only been bench shooting currently as the whole state is under fire restrictions so I can’t get as much. We just got some rain and with the monsoons hopefully I can make it out the the desert more often to have some more fun. The closet range to me are very strict.
Link Posted: 6/18/2018 8:24:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2018 8:33:22 AM EDT by thehun06]
Only 40% of preorders have been fulfilled thus far...vendor issues are still a problem....there is your reason why he has the Q&A...to help the brand survive the T7 launch (its my hypothesis)....with 60% of preorders still not fulfilled....thats a lot of $$$ to be lost in the coming months...sad...looks like...by how things have went thus far...many wont see their preorders delivered for another year.

DT needs to find new vendors if they are truly dropping the ball on delivering parts on time.

All this info can be seen on BPF.
Link Posted: 6/18/2018 8:28:14 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thehun06:
Only 40% of preorders have been fulfilled thus far...vendor issues are still a problem....there is your reason why he has the Q&A...to help the brand survive the T7 lunch....with 60% of preorders still not fulfilled....thats a lot of $$$ to be lost in the coming months...sad.

DT needs to find new vendors if they are truly dropping the ball on delivering parts on time.

All this info can be seen on BPF.
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They could start by going to a USA company. Importing parts, especially things like pressure-holding parts, isn't the smartest thing a small/medium sized company could have done. At this point, they haven't really saved any money.
Link Posted: 6/18/2018 8:32:06 AM EDT
Well it doesn't seem to be an importation issue from the answer we got.

Either the MIM manufacturer is incompetent (which is highly unlikely as we know who is making at least some of the parts in India for DT) or the MIM company is not getting paid and only shipping bits and pieces.
Link Posted: 6/18/2018 1:57:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/18/2018 11:41:58 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thehun06:
Well it doesn't seem to be an importation issue from the answer we got.

Either the MIM manufacturer is incompetent (which is highly unlikely as we know who is making at least some of the parts in India for DT) or the MIM company is not getting paid and only shipping bits and pieces.
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Honestly from what I have seen and heard I think you got it on the not being paid. That seemed like a issue early on.
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 6:54:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2018 6:57:07 AM EDT by fuatos]
I live in the SLC area and was excited to see a local company endeavor in such a cool and innovative design. I had had hoped for their success and was "invested" in their success for some time. I'd even stop by their business for updates and see their prototypes/production rifles.

I'm not sure where this product launch rates on the failure scale, but I'd have to say it's pretty high. It might even be a textbook example. Misstep, after misstep. Poor planning and inexperience are evident. Carefully worded (poorly written) releases to slant public opinion and provide false hope in the release of the product abound. Production and design issues evident in a production rifle.

I hope for the best for the MDR and the owners of the rifle. I'm fairly confident that this rifle will be little more than a footnote in history, due to the enormous failure of Management, on so many levels.
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 9:23:28 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fuatos:
I live in the SLC area and was excited to see a local company endeavor in such a cool and innovative design. I had had hoped for their success and was "invested" in their success for some time. I'd even stop by their business for updates and see their prototypes/production rifles.

I'm not sure where this product launch rates on the failure scale, but I'd have to say it's pretty high. It might even be a textbook example. Misstep, after misstep. Poor planning and inexperience are evident. Carefully worded (poorly written) releases to slant public opinion and provide false hope in the release of the product abound. Production and design issues evident in a production rifle.

I hope for the best for the MDR and the owners of the rifle. I'm fairly confident that this rifle will be little more than a footnote in history, due to the enormous failure of Management, on so many levels.
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Which is stunning, since the bolt-gun side of things seems to still be going well...

DT learned a lesson that more than one company has learned over the years, namely that even with years of producing bolt-action guns, prototyping, developing, and manufacturing a novel semi-auto is no small task.
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 10:10:25 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pyotr_k:
Which is stunning, since the bolt-gun side of things seems to still be going well...

DT learned a lesson that more than one company has learned over the years, namely that even with years of producing bolt-action guns, prototyping, developing, and manufacturing a novel semi-auto is no small task.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pyotr_k:
Originally Posted By fuatos:
I live in the SLC area and was excited to see a local company endeavor in such a cool and innovative design. I had had hoped for their success and was "invested" in their success for some time. I'd even stop by their business for updates and see their prototypes/production rifles.

I'm not sure where this product launch rates on the failure scale, but I'd have to say it's pretty high. It might even be a textbook example. Misstep, after misstep. Poor planning and inexperience are evident. Carefully worded (poorly written) releases to slant public opinion and provide false hope in the release of the product abound. Production and design issues evident in a production rifle.

I hope for the best for the MDR and the owners of the rifle. I'm fairly confident that this rifle will be little more than a footnote in history, due to the enormous failure of Management, on so many levels.
Which is stunning, since the bolt-gun side of things seems to still be going well...

DT learned a lesson that more than one company has learned over the years, namely that even with years of producing bolt-action guns, prototyping, developing, and manufacturing a novel semi-auto is no small task.
They lost me as a potential customer for a bolt gun with this release. I was >< close to trading my AIAT to Orkan for an SRS A1 a few months back.
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 10:44:24 AM EDT
MDR at this point needs good, independent reliability reports from end-users and online bloggers. Period.

No one is questioning the design...but all we hear is non function after non function after non function...so that is all we can discuss...IF YOU OWN A MDR AND HAVE FLAWLESS ROUNDS THROUGH IT...SPEAK UP...preferably with at least 500-1000rds fired.

We learned on BPF that even the extractor is MIM...DT is claiming it is more durable than actual steel...which could be with today's tech...but I remain skeptical about it.
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 10:51:38 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jlficken:
They lost me as a potential customer for a bolt gun with this release. I was >< close to trading my AIAT to Orkan for an SRS A1 a few months back.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jlficken:
Originally Posted By pyotr_k:
Which is stunning, since the bolt-gun side of things seems to still be going well...
They lost me as a potential customer for a bolt gun with this release. I was >< close to trading my AIAT to Orkan for an SRS A1 a few months back.
Yep, and me as well:

Originally Posted By rsolomon 6/10/2018 8:37:51 AM MDT :

I had the opportunity to handle (and option to purchase) a new DT SRS in .308 last week. Neat idea, nifty rifle, but I'm not dropping $5K with a company that treats its customers like this!
Not to mention that in the post-Obama "slump" I don't think $5K rifles are flying off the shelves... Maybe it's not Delphi Tandoori, but Dead Tomorrow?
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 11:28:27 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jlficken:

They lost me as a potential customer for a bolt gun with this release. I was >< close to trading my AIAT to Orkan for an SRS A1 a few months back.
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Same. I was slowly leaning toward getting a HTI .50BMG this summer, and this whole debacle has pushed me away entirely. I'll deal with a longer/heavier rifle, thanks.
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 11:29:26 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thehun06:
MDR at this point needs good, independent reliability reports from end-users and online bloggers. Period.

No one is questioning the design...but all we hear is non function after non function after non function...so that is all we can discuss...IF YOU OWN A MDR AND HAVE FLAWLESS ROUNDS THROUGH IT...SPEAK UP...preferably with at least 500-1000rds fired.

We learned on BPF that even the extractor is MIM...DT is claiming it is more durable than actual steel...which could be with today's tech...but I remain skeptical about it.
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Extractor, nothing... the barrel extension/trunnion is MIM. The locking surface. No, thank you!
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 11:50:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2018 11:53:34 AM EDT by thehun06]
Yes...the barrel block/trunnion, extractor, extractor link, ejector, ejector chute, ejector link, dust cover, gas block, mag catch are all MIM as well made in Asia.

Now...MIM has came a long ways in the last 10 years...but I am surprised just how much MIM is used throughout the MDR...I think verification of reliability and longevity is paramount and the only thing the MDR needs to prove...quite honestly...at $2500...I did not expect this much MIM to be used...especially not on crucial parts like the extractor, gas block and barrel block/trunnion.

I hope we see more reports regarding MDRs with more than a 1000rds fired through them.

IraqVeter8888 should do a melt down video....
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 12:03:20 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thehun06:
Yes...the barrel block/trunnion, extractor, extractor link, ejector, ejector chute, ejector link, dust cover, gas block, mag catch are all MIM as well made in Asia.

Now...MIM has came a long ways in the last 10 years...but I am surprised just how much MIM is used throughout the MDR...I think verification of reliability and longevity is paramount and the only thing the MDR needs to prove...quite honestly...at $2500...I did not expect this much MIM to be used...especially not on crucial parts like the extractor, gas block and barrel block/trunnion.

I hope we see more reports regarding MDRs with more than a 1000rds fired through them.

IraqVeter8888 should do a melt down video....
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Now, there's an idea! I'd love to see what happens with, say, a couple of cases fired in a single day, check the wear every 500 rounds or so, but a test to destruction would be interesting. Problem is, apparently it would be frustrating to get that many rounds through it, with failures and all.
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 12:29:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2018 12:30:03 PM EDT by thehun06]
Truly and honestly...I want the MDR to work out...but we have got to get some good feedback and reports from independent sources before I pluck down on the rifle.

The time is running out with the T7 knocking on the door.
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 12:33:04 PM EDT
Not just the Tavor 7, but the F90/Atrax (for those interested in the MDR in 5.56x45mm) and I've had my eye on that for a while, too.
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 1:12:24 PM EDT
Well, for another data point...my friend's MDR (I've mentioned it before) went back twice before it started running well. Fast forward two thousand something rounds it's broken again...
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 1:20:41 PM EDT
What happened now?
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 2:09:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2018 2:09:53 PM EDT by dlm1984]
Ejection chute panel, again
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 5:17:55 PM EDT
But it’s high quality MIM.....
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 7:57:35 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dlm1984:
Ejection chute panel, again
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The chute panel or the scissor mechanism panel?

He's had it a good while so unless they were replaced I would think he would have the milled panels, not mim.
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 8:22:06 PM EDT
How long is it taking to get a group buy refund for everyone? I’m like 5 weeks in and sent another email today. He replied 5 weeks ago that he would get the refund sent out.
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 8:29:06 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By newguy2k3:

The chute panel or the scissor mechanism panel?

He's had it a good while so unless they were replaced I would think he would have the milled panels, not mim.
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Honestly, I'm not sure which component it was. It's the catch that holds the panel in place, if that helps. If I understand things correctly, his first one was MIM and broke. Replaced with a milled piece, still didn't run right, then the second time back, they discovered a receiver issue (out of shape or bent?), then it ran well. Until the panel broke again - although I misspoke - it was 2800 rounds.
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 9:22:27 PM EDT
The panel with the scissor mechanism just started popping off of mine last time out. I only have 3-400 through it if I had to guess.
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 10:36:21 PM EDT
That sucks.
Link Posted: 6/19/2018 11:43:23 PM EDT
Well its good to know they waited until it was perfect and that it would not have any problems.
Link Posted: 6/20/2018 12:39:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2018 12:40:13 AM EDT by Kwisak]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thehun06:
MDR at this point needs good, independent reliability reports from end-users and online bloggers. Period.

No one is questioning the design...but all we hear is non function after non function after non function...so that is all we can discuss...IF YOU OWN A MDR AND HAVE FLAWLESS ROUNDS THROUGH IT...SPEAK UP...preferably with at least 500-1000rds fired.

We learned on BPF that even the extractor is MIM...DT is claiming it is more durable than actual steel...which could be with today's tech...but I remain skeptical about it.
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Like I said above I have quite a few rounds down range with no issues so far but until the forest opens up with the monsoons that round count isn’t going to keep going up much. I can’t justify shooting a 308 at a indoor range that maxes out at 70 feet, not yards, feet.
Link Posted: 6/20/2018 10:12:36 AM EDT
Shooting that short gets boring for sure...I don't blame you.

Glad you have a good working MDR...hope it keeps up for you.
Link Posted: 6/21/2018 10:45:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2018 10:46:11 PM EDT by newguy2k3]
I'm gonna send mine back again and give them one more chance to make it work. If it still doesn't do what I think it should down the road it goes.
Link Posted: 6/22/2018 12:13:30 AM EDT
Sucks to hear, but I hope they get it in order this time. If not, I hope whoever picks it up is willing to work on it.
Link Posted: 6/22/2018 1:13:26 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By newguy2k3:
I'm gonna send mine back again and give them one more chance to make it work. If it still doesn't do what I think it should down the road it goes.
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If you dont mind me asking, what issues are you sending it in for on the second run?
Link Posted: 6/22/2018 7:27:48 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rabbit-Slayer:

If you dont mind me asking, what issues are you sending it in for on the second run?
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After spending $70 on the 6 position gas valve I still had a stuck case on the first mag.
The panel with the ejection mechanism started popping loose every 20-30 rounds.
Charging handle doesn't stay locked forward all the time.
Rear take down pin walks out while firing.
Intermittent failure to fully return to battery.
Link Posted: 6/22/2018 8:52:26 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By newguy2k3:

After spending $70 on the 6 position gas valve I still had a stuck case on the first mag.
The panel with the ejection mechanism started popping loose every 20-30 rounds.
Charging handle doesn't stay locked forward all the time.
Rear take down pin walks out while firing.
Intermittent failure to fully return to battery.
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...but other than all that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
Link Posted: 6/22/2018 9:31:38 AM EDT
The first trip back was for

Sticking cases. Improved but not fixed.
Linkage binding between left and right charging handle. Fixed
Mags falling out. Did nothing for this issue.
Link Posted: 6/22/2018 12:53:28 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By newguy2k3:

After spending $70 on the 6 position gas valve I still had a stuck case on the first mag.
The panel with the ejection mechanism started popping loose every 20-30 rounds.
Charging handle doesn't stay locked forward all the time.
Rear take down pin walks out while firing.
Intermittent failure to fully return to battery.
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Wow, any one of those issues individually would be a big red flag. All of them in the same rifle?? Hang on, they charged you for the new gas valve!? What in the holy hell happened to all that testing they were doing?
Link Posted: 6/22/2018 1:40:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2018 1:41:53 PM EDT by thehun06]
They are charging everyone for the gas plug...$50+ shipping for a limited time....I think in July it goes to $79
Link Posted: 6/22/2018 9:10:52 PM EDT
DT could have hit a home run if they'd simply made a bullpup on par accuracy wise with an AR15. Make it with standard ejection without all the complicated stuff to start. Just get the basic rifle down on their first outing.

They would have put everyone else on notice big time.

Then, quietly go about adding the ejection system that they are having so much trouble with. Get it perfected behind the scenes. Get it in the hands of pro shooters and let them ring it out and abuse it. Once they got it to where it could run rifle courses with a failure rate comparable to other trusted service rifles, make the announcement and offer it for sale.

They had grand ideas, but they were too grand. They bit off more than they could chew.

Simply making a reliable, 1moa or better Bullpup with a super good trigger would have been a game changer. Anything under 1moa would have been a remarkable achievement and would have kept their reputation and locked the Tavor 7 out of the market. I expect the Tavor 7 to be 1.5-2 moa , maybe a tad better, but it will be reliable to a fault.
Link Posted: 6/22/2018 9:27:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
DT could have hit a home run if they'd simply made a bullpup on par accuracy wise with an AR15. Make it with standard ejection without all the complicated stuff to start. Just get the basic rifle down on their first outing.

They would have put everyone else on notice big time.

Then, quietly go about adding the ejection system that they are having so much trouble with. Get it perfected behind the scenes. Get it in the hands of pro shooters and let them ring it out and abuse it. Once they got it to where it could run rifle courses with a failure rate comparable to other trusted service rifles, make the announcement and offer it for sale.

They had grand ideas, but they were too grand. They bit off more than they could chew.

Simply making a reliable, 1moa or better Bullpup with a super good trigger would have been a game changer. Anything under 1moa would have been a remarkable achievement and would have kept their reputation and locked the Tavor 7 out of the market. I expect the Tavor 7 to be 1.5-2 moa , maybe a tad better, but it will be reliable to a fault.
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The problem was that they announced that it would have the forward ejection which was a keynote feature. If, and I stress IF, they ran into production/refinement issues post-announcement, the very same people who are whipping them like a dead horse would be doing the same thing to them because it didn't have forward ejection. The system obviously works because people have rifles that function as advertised. There has to be something else other than design that is at fault here.
Link Posted: 6/22/2018 10:47:29 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kfeltenberger:

The problem was that they announced that it would have the forward ejection which was a keynote feature. If, and I stress IF, they ran into production/refinement issues post-announcement, the very same people who are whipping them like a dead horse would be doing the same thing to them because it didn't have forward ejection. The system obviously works because people have rifles that function as advertised. There has to be something else other than design that is at fault here.
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Piss poor execution and QC, followed by piss poor CS.

Either that, or maybe the design is at fault. If you design something that is too hard to implement correctly by your production team then you have made a poor design.
Link Posted: 6/22/2018 11:30:33 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thehun06:
They are charging everyone for the gas plug...$50+ shipping for a limited time....I think in July it goes to $79
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Yeah, and how long does it take to ship out? A buddy has been waiting for parts "one week out" for a month, now. Funny, they took his money right away...
Link Posted: 6/22/2018 11:37:33 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pyotr_k:
Yeah, and how long does it take to ship out? A buddy has been waiting for parts "one week out" for a month, now. Funny, they took his money right away...
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pyotr_k:
Originally Posted By thehun06:
They are charging everyone for the gas plug...$50+ shipping for a limited time....I think in July it goes to $79
Yeah, and how long does it take to ship out? A buddy has been waiting for parts "one week out" for a month, now. Funny, they took his money right away...
My two were shipped with 24 hours of placing the order and I had them two days later.
Link Posted: 6/23/2018 2:20:20 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
DT could have hit a home run if they'd simply made a bullpup on par accuracy wise with an AR15. Make it with standard ejection without all the complicated stuff to start. Just get the basic rifle down on their first outing.

They would have put everyone else on notice big time.

Then, quietly go about adding the ejection system that they are having so much trouble with. Get it perfected behind the scenes. Get it in the hands of pro shooters and let them ring it out and abuse it. Once they got it to where it could run rifle courses with a failure rate comparable to other trusted service rifles, make the announcement and offer it for sale.

They had grand ideas, but they were too grand. They bit off more than they could chew.

Simply making a reliable, 1moa or better Bullpup with a super good trigger would have been a game changer. Anything under 1moa would have been a remarkable achievement and would have kept their reputation and locked the Tavor 7 out of the market. I expect the Tavor 7 to be 1.5-2 moa , maybe a tad better, but it will be reliable to a fault.
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I know that tomorrow and Sunday at the CVMG district 2 championship, at least one person is running a MDR. Odd choice in my opinion. That's a lot of money and prizes to rest on the MDR's performance...
Link Posted: 6/23/2018 7:36:10 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kfeltenberger:

My two were shipped with 24 hours of placing the order and I had them two days later.
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Did you have issues with your MDRs before you decided to get the improved gas plugs and if so did they function better with them?
Link Posted: 6/23/2018 7:53:07 AM EDT
I was on hold Thursday with DT to cancel my direct pre-order (not part of the group buy) after a year worth of delays and reports of various issues when I got the email notification that my FDE 308 MDR shipped FedEx to the local DT dealer I had chosen. I suppose I'm stuck with it for a while now, hopefully they got this one right... It might take a couple weekends to get it out to the range for a test.
Link Posted: 6/23/2018 8:31:35 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aussie_E:

Did you have issues with your MDRs before you decided to get the improved gas plugs and if so did they function better with them?
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Kurt hasn't shot any of the MDRs he has yet unfortunately. Hopefully he will get to soon.
Link Posted: 6/23/2018 8:50:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2018 8:52:13 AM EDT by Aussie_E]
I only waited a year for mine and was at the range the week I got it. I guess shooting for some isn't as much a priority as collecting. Even though I had traded mine within a month I must say it did get me excited/interested in shooting again after a long layoff from shooting, if that's all I got from it (as well as the LMT MWS I traded it for) I am forever grateful to DT. It had so much promise, hopefully it will live up to it all in the end.
Link Posted: 6/23/2018 11:06:48 AM EDT
I am in the same pickle as you were...do I trade off my trusty LMT MWS for one of these 308 bullpups or not....time will tell...
Link Posted: 6/23/2018 11:49:20 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kfeltenberger:

My two were shipped with 24 hours of placing the order and I had them two days later.
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They must just make/purchase batches of parts. Some parts have been out of stock for at least a month, but at least that's not the case for the MDR repair/fix parts. Still puzzles me why it's an upgrade/option, versus a part sent to all owners who had issues.
Link Posted: 6/23/2018 12:20:21 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thehun06:
I am in the same pickle as you were...do I trade off my trusty LMT MWS for one of these 308 bullpups or not....time will tell...
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Why not just buy an RFB and keep the LMT? Half the price, more than twice the reliability - it’s now a mature design with lots of rounds on it...
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