Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/19/2002 8:53:29 AM EDT
With the recent Washington D.C. area sniper situtation, the terrorist attacks on 9/11 and the ever present and perhaps growing threat of more terrorism, my handgun no longer feels like all I need when I leave home. I would like to get some kind of good quality long gun to keep with me, secured in the trunk just in case I may someday need it. Now with that said, I prefer something that offers good accuracy, is fairly compact, semi-auto and offers a good value.

I really love the accuracy and ergonomics of the AR-15 type rifles. But I don't want a $1000 Colt being banged around in the trunk on a regular basis. I have looked at some of the kits on the market, particularly those uppers made by DPMS and the FN stuff from J&T. I know these guns use chambers compatible with mil-spec ammo pressures, but they don't have chrome lined barrels. Are these kits/uppers considered reliable enough for serious use situations? Or are they just intended more as plinkers where reliability isn't a necessity? If reliable guns can be made from these kits, then this would represent a good value......nearly half the cost of a Colt.

Some of the others I have been looking at include the higher quality AK designs....such as the Arsenal SA M7 and the VEPR K with synthetic pistol grip stock. While the typical AK isn't an extremely accurate rifle, I hear that these two models offer really good accuracy. I am sure reliability is also good with these.

So, out of those choices, what would you choose if picking a rifle for a truck/trunk gun? Or would you pick something else? Again, I am looking for a reliable and accurate gun, yet one that isn't so expensive that I would be afraid of using it out of fear of cosmetic damage caused by the abuse of being in an automobile. What do you folks think?
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 9:10:43 AM EDT
I don't see why it has to be a Colt-branded rifle to be considered reliable. I built my AR on an RRA lower, parts kit, and RRA upper. Would I trust my life to it? You're damn right I would. And it doesn't say "Colt" anywhere on it.

That being said, I think you could toss together a decent AR with one of the kits from the various vendors. Why not? And if you're worried about it beating around in your trunk, stick it in a hard case. Worried about moisture? Toss some dessicant in the case, or in the trunk. I don't think it would be that big a deal. Just build the gun as a trunk gun. Know that it will be just that... a trunk gun.

-Gloftoe
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 5:20:59 PM EDT
This subject seems to come up often in the short time I have been here. From what I have read before, many people choose Lever actions in various calibers because of their positive image and so forth. I've personally thought about an SKS because of its toughness, low cost and low cost of ammo. But most people seem to stay away from the AR-15 because of the cost and image. Even a home built AR is more expensive than an SKS or used lever gun.

I've been looking lately at used Win 94s in 30-30. They are accurate, especially with an aperture sight installed, relatively fast between shots with practice, cheap and the 30-30 hits pretty hard in the 100-150 yard range. Also it will penetrate most available body armor and light cover at modest ranges. I've also been looking at the Enfield No.4 in 303 for the same reasons another bonus with them is the use of stripper clips, so that a rifle stored unloaded could be put into action faster than an unloaded lever gun.

You live in a more firearm friendly area than I do so you may not have to worry about most of this stuff. Good luck with your choice.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 6:16:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2002 6:18:29 PM EDT by 308wood]
a .223 are you crazy???
if they catch you with a .223 in the DC area you won't see that gun and we won't see you for a long time.


i would get the Remington 710 in 30-06 and carry 5-10 rounds of AP and 10 rounds of soft points. get one of those stretchy cartridge holders that go on the butt stock. this is a one shot one kill deal. for both you and the "other" sniper and what ever you do don't try to help the cops.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 6:38:33 PM EDT
I think a good choice would be a Bushmaster M-17s bullpup. Relativley inexpensive, uses AR mags, compact and accurate. Another important point in the bullpups favor is the fact that it maintains the velocity of a 20" gun while other carbines, like the M-4 have significantly less velocity due to their small barrel length.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 6:41:35 PM EDT
I carried a Colt in the trunk of a patrol car for a few years, in a soft case. It is no worse for the wear and still works fine, just a litle slow into action from there.

Link Posted: 10/19/2002 6:52:21 PM EDT
SKS with a Williams FireSight and a plastic monte carlo stock--I've got $225 sunk into mine ('50's vintage Tula Arsenal jobbie) and I believe when God said "Let there be a trunk gun" He gave Mr. Simonov the inspiration to make it. Don't know nothin' about MOA but it kills a soda can at 100 yards--plenty good for deer or bad guys.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 7:00:52 PM EDT
While it would not be prudent to carry a .223 rifle (nor would I admit to ownership of a .223 rifle) in your car in the DC area now, a .30-30 would be an excellent choice. KISS, no mags, can be topped off at any time.

What I keep in my vehicle is a stainless Ruger Mini-14.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 7:13:31 PM EDT
Yeah, that's been a dilemma for me lately as well. I'm in the Northern Virginia area pretty frequently for work and have been feeling a little undergunned with my J-frame, but I sure as hell don't want to be driving around with my AR in the trunk. I've carrying my M1 Carbine; light, accurate, more muzzle velocity than a .44 magnum. Plus it's wood, so it doesn't look as scary. A Mini-14 would be a good choice for the same reason and they're cheap.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 7:16:48 PM EDT
As long as we're talking about lever actions, what do you all think about a Marlin 336 in 35 Rem? I don't know much about the gun or cartridge, but was just curious as I know someone who had one of these.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 7:21:50 PM EDT
Im finding myself agreeing with the guys suggesting guns like the M1 Carbine or a Mini-14. Two senarios:

#1 - You live in the DC area, and have the unfortunate luck of being anywhere in the area of one of the sniper incidents. I'm not volunteering to be the guy crouched behind my car with an AR when the cops show up.

#2 - Terrorist attack of any kind. Once again, I dont want to be the guy holding an assualt rifle of any kind when the response starts to arrive.

Having the tools to defend yourself in any situation is always good. But so is getting THE HELL out of there.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 7:34:28 PM EDT
here are a few i would consider

JT kit ar15 = not PC with sniper attacks, but i dont care

good AK = may look too much like the "badguy"

Steyr scout = compact, and fairly PC looking

winchester/marlin 30-30 = cant think of much within reasonable distance that this mother cant handle
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 7:44:35 PM EDT
I would pick a 12 gauge pump, with deer slugs and magnum BB shot.

20 inch barrel would be fine. no sling. no sidesaddle. no folding stock. no gimmicks.

keep five rounds on a butt cuff. keep a vest with more ammo in the soft case with the shotgun.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 8:50:23 PM EDT
How about a Tankerized Lee Enfield?


Cheap, Reliable, Tough..Packs a Punch, has a charger guide in the receiver for stripper clips, has a 10 round detachable magazine, it is 30 caliber. Since it is a Bolt Action Rifle it is legal in all 50 states. The wood stock looks nice and doesn't make gun control freaks go into an epileptic seizure like a Black Rifle does..

"Oh..how cute..an Antique Rifle..must be almost harmles.."

It is more accurate than an Lever Action Rifle.
And it is cheaper.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 8:56:05 PM EDT
Guys, guys, in case I wasn't clear about this before, I am not in the Washington D.C. area. I was only using the example of what's been happening there to illustrate one of the growing reasons why a trunk gun might be a good thing to have.

And let me say thanks for the info so far, it has been interesting. I had thought about the Marlin 336, as I love those guns, but I'm not sure just yet that I want a lever gun. But since so many folks are recommending those, I will ponder that thought. Heck, I've been wanting some kind of excuse to buy one of those beautiful, stainless Marlins. Perhaps the finish would be perfect for what I want too.

I also considered the SKS and the Mini-14, but have ruled both out because they aren't as accurate as I like and the SKS stock is too short for me. However both are reliable guns and the stainless finish on the Ruger would be a plus.

Bolt guns are out. Too slow for quick follow-ups and too slow to reload, at least for me. At this point it will either be the Marlin or an AR of some sort. And yes, where I am at, people don't panic when they see a black rifle. I have never been able to understand why people are so fast to bash a certain gun just because of the way it looks. I guess the media is to blame for this. Thanks for all of the comments so far folks, feel free to keep them coming. But that idea of the 30-30 is sounding better and better the more I think of it.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 9:12:20 PM EDT
I checked around at some pawn shops and found a Winchester m94 30-30 for $150. It looks like hell but it shoots like a dream. If I lose it I'm not out much. I keep the mag full and have 6 rounds on the stock in a uncle mikes slip on holder.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 9:19:31 PM EDT
Glock 17 in the glove box. (no CCW yet)

Keltec Sub2K in the trunk.

Same ammo, same mags. Works for me.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 9:55:44 PM EDT
I would suggest an AK in 223 (cheap, very reliable, shoots your usual ammo) or a old Mauser. A $70 Mauser in a $70 steyr scout look-alike stock makes a cheap and handy rifle.
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 10:06:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2002 9:02:19 AM EDT by Adam_White]

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:

Bolt guns are out. Too slow for quick follow-ups and too slow to reload, at least for me.



Sounds like an excuse to get more range time. A bolt should be as quick or quicker to work than a lever - you oughta be able to work the action right after your follow through and as the weapons returns for a follow-up shot.


Adam
Link Posted: 10/19/2002 10:41:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
I also considered the SKS and the Mini-14, but have ruled both out because they aren't as accurate as I like and the SKS stock is too short for me. However both are reliable guns and the stainless finish on the Ruger would be a plus.




SKS stocks are too short for everyone. That's why the aftermarket makes a 1" spacer like on the paratrooper in this pic. It's amazing what a difference that inch makes for getting on the sights. Regarding accuracy, I have trouble envisioning why you would need better accuracy than the above rifles provide, in a DEFENSIVE situation.

http://home.earthlink.net/~routhier/taurus/rifles1.JPG
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 8:40:17 AM EDT
HK91 or quality clone.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 8:51:36 AM EDT
A belt fed M60 would work in a pinch!
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 9:14:16 AM EDT
Reality check, Guys...

I live in NOVa and own a few Ar's. I was stopped yesterday getting on base at Quantico and my Black Truck was searched by 2 Marines. You can't carry a concealed weapon on base so my pistol was in a lock box. I was still nervous.

I picked up my new AR-180B, and drove home up I-95.

Later, I turned on the TV only to find all the roads I had just traversed had roadblocks as the terrorists had struck again.

Can you imagine lying face down on the h'way in the rain while explaining that AR in your vehicle? I can, now.

I don't believe we should be trading shot's with terrorists at 100 yards. I feel a hand gun is adequate if you consider returning fire if you are near where the shooter is shooting FROM, not TOO.

Comments?
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 10:43:09 AM EDT
A SAR 2 or possibly a SAR 3 fits the bill quite nicely.

Inexpensive, reliable, accepts a wide array of optics and both offer enough accuracy to be effective out to at least 150 yards.

I am very impressed with my SAR 2 for the money.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 11:10:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Maynard:
A SAR 2 or possibly a SAR 3 fits the bill quite nicely.

Inexpensive, reliable, accepts a wide array of optics and both offer enough accuracy to be effective out to at least 150 yards.

I am very impressed with my SAR 2 for the money.



i second that.
that IS currently my trunk gun, cheap, VERY reliable,accurate enough. i'm only out a few hundred as opposed to a thousand if something happens to it.
i keep the mags under the seat in a bag and the rifle unloaded in the trunk for legality,you'd be surprised how quick it is to pop the trunk, pull out the mags and charge the thing like that. got a cheap 15.00 case and some dessicant, good to go.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 11:37:05 AM EDT
Ever since my wife and I got robbed on the side of a road by two idiots who were crazy enough to throw a brick through our windshield at 75mph (to hurt/stop us and then rob us at gunpoint)on the interstate, I make sure to carry my Krinkov in 5.45x39 with me when taking trips along the interstate at night.

What a frickin' nightmare that was!
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 11:40:57 AM EDT
p.s. I am opposed to trunk guns. Thats were my UNLOADED handgun was (b/c we were driving across CA-AZ-NM-TX and I wanted to follow the law) Damn those laws....the trunk is no place for a gun to be when you need it.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 11:42:15 AM EDT


Can you imagine lying face down on the h'way in the rain while explaining that AR in your vehicle? I can, now.

I don't believe we should be trading shot's with terrorists at 100 yards. I feel a hand gun is adequate if you consider returning fire if you are near where the shooter is shooting FROM, not TOO.

Comments?

Yeah, I agree with you on the AR angle. But in the incredibly unlikely event that the opportunity to engage this guy should ever come up, I'd still take it. I wouldn't feel right going thru a situation where I might have had a chance to stop a guy like this and instead let him go and kill again. Plus, there's 500k on his head.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 12:21:08 PM EDT
If I would have to carry a rifle in my trunk. As a police officer my department uses the H&K G36k(semi)in the trunk. Shotguns have been taken out. As a civilian if I had to carry.
For one civilians can't get G36s. So....

1. AR15 w/M4 features. 14.5 barrel, flash suppress optional. A2/A3 with C-more reddot.
Both combat and tactical ready-long range limited. Pre or Post .223 or 7.62x39

2. AK47 with some of the options they have.
.223 or 7.62x39

3. Remington 700 LTR w/compact but effective scope. .223 or .308

Galls.com sells trunk racks for rifles, so your rifle doesn't slide around.

These rifles have the power, size, and are effective.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 1:14:08 PM EDT
Kel-Tec sub2000 in .40 S&W (Wish it came in .45ACP), Foldable, Pointable, Easy to use, Pistol caliber is very quiet & Has very little flash from the 16" barrel.
Plus its cheap & made of mostly plastic, perfect for a car trunk!
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 1:35:10 PM EDT
Charging_Handle-

Not sure if you are allowed to have a loaded rifle in your vehicle in your state, but most states that I am aware of have laws not allowing a rifle to be loaded in a vehicle. This would preclude the use of a lever gun as an emergency situation sort of "trunk gun."

Can you imagine a type of situation where you actually need to stop your car, pop your trunk (or reach in the backseat, etc) grab your lever action, load each round and then attempt to engage the threat? If the situation is so bad that it calls for a "trunk gun" that means you have to be able to get it into action fast, very fast.

Either your life, your families lives or people who you are attempting to save are depending upon your speed. Don't tell me that you can load a lever action tube mag "really fast with training" - I think the point of a trunk gun is one that does not require constant training. This also would lead me to recommend a cheaper clone of one of the rifles you currently shoot the most - that is mag fed. That way you are already trained/familiar with it.

Find yourself a cheaper AR clone, get a four mag pouch and load it up.



On WofWof's Point, his comment was:

I don't believe we should be trading shot's with terrorists at 100 yards. I feel a hand gun is adequate if you consider returning fire if you are near where the shooter is shooting FROM, not TOO.

Comments?


In 98% of the situations where one could imagine needing a trunk gun, anything beyond 100 yards probably does mean run. At the same time, who knows what could really happen?

What if the Beltway Psycho (or his local impersonator) decided to simply make a stand and eliminate as many people as possible on the highway? The guy in the car in front of you on the freeway crashes (because he was hit), taking out several cars with it. Traffic on the freeway is backed up and stopped. Now the Mr. Psycho decides to simply take out the rest of the people in the stopped traffic. They are all sitting ducks. If you are in that traffic, you would be "pinned down" and need something that is (possibly) accurate past 100 yards.

Again, to me a trunk gun means the SHTF scenario - even if isolated to your immediate area. You just never know...
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 5:02:49 PM EDT
KingOfTheBumps,

You make some excellent points and reflect on many of the reasons why I want a trunk gun. I am not some loose cannon who plans to go out and start shooting up the neighborhood. In fact, although I didn't mention this in a previous post, I am a special deputy (called reserve in most states) and that's another consideration for having a good rifle in the vehicle. I could be at a grocery store, at my regular job, or anywhere for that matter and be called upon to assist county/city officers in an emergency. Instead of being able to run away from any potentially dangerous situations, I will have to run toward them. So I don't worry about carrying a detachable mag rifle with me....as I will also have my badge, ID, and my portable radio with me also.

So as of now, a detachable mag fed rifle/carbine in .223 or 5.56mm looks pretty good. While the handgun and shotgun are great close range tools, I want something that offers more precision when contemplating shooting at distances out to 100 yds or past. That precision may mean the difference between life and death for innocents who may be in the area. And the .223 is also known for not over-penetrating which is good in this same regard.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 8:43:44 PM EDT
Ya mean ya can't shoot your pistol that far!?!?

Glock 10mm, capable out past 400m



I would go for whatever you shoot well with...try to go for something your office issues to the paid employees..
Here the deputies get M-16A1's, AR-15A2's, Benelli 14", and Remington 870's...you get your choice of a patrol rifle, and patrol carbine.
When acting as a Deputy, you have to follow the rules of what you are allowed to use.

I.e. Phoenix Policemen here are issued Glocks. If someone was carrying a walther .38 offduty and went to a bank as it was robbed and shot a bad guy and said "Police" or showed his badge at all, he is in knee-deep sh*t.

That's all of my advise, I hope I spelled everything right.
Link Posted: 10/20/2002 10:55:06 PM EDT
I carry a SAR2 in my trunk with a loaded 30 round mag and no spare mags. I wont need more than 30 rounds. Its ultra reliable and it shoots 4 MOA all day long while hot and dirty using Wolf 60 grain ammo. Cost? Under $300.

I use it because its reliable and cheap if it gets stolen or taken by police if I ever had to use it. I am purchasing a Springfield XD9 to replace my HK USP Tactical as my glovebox gun for the same reason.
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 8:45:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2002 8:47:59 AM EDT by Matthew_Q]
For a defensive, car/truck carbine, why not an M1 Carbine?


Here's what I'd use:




I plan on getting a soft sided violin case to put that in. Quite innocuous that way, and I could leave it in the back of my car with no problems. Keep a spare mag in the glovebox or in the pouch behind the passenger seat, and it's ready to rock pretty quick.

Link Posted: 10/21/2002 9:37:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
For a defensive, car/truck carbine, why not an M1 Carbine?



That is exactly what I did, many years ago. I delivered pizzas in college in a very crappy part of town, and this was before Texas's CHL law. I bought an M1 carbine with a folding stock specifically because you can carry along gun in a vehicle in Texas, and the .30 Carbine was relatively cheap.
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 9:45:14 AM EDT
Its hard to beat a sks for a reasonally priced carbine with a punch.
Lebrew
Link Posted: 10/21/2002 6:39:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
For a defensive, car/truck carbine, why not an M1 Carbine?


Here's what I'd use:

quentinj.dynamic-dns.net/pics/m1folder.jpg




GASP! That thing should be locked in the sa...

Hey, You want to sell that piece of shit?
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 10:33:49 AM EDT
Matthew_Q, Good idea on the soft violin case. Ive been looking for a low key case for my trunk gun. Porbably find a used one pretty cheap.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 1:09:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AggieAlum:
Ever since my wife and I got robbed on the side of a road by two idiots who were crazy enough to throw a brick through our windshield at 75mph (to hurt/stop us and then rob us at gunpoint)on the interstate, I make sure to carry my Krinkov in 5.45x39 with me when taking trips along the interstate at night.

What a frickin' nightmare that was!



ON what highway that it happened to you and your wife? I assume everything is OK, now, correct?
Highway 45, South of Corsicana (don't know how many miles South) is also known to have some problems at night.
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 5:57:55 PM EDT
Mojo, Thank goodness everything turned out okay and niether my wife nor I got hurt. She was really shaken up about the whole incident.

This actually happened on the interstate going from AZ into New Mexico. We had just pulled out of a rest stop at 9-10pm and got back on the road when we were robbed just a few miles down.

In this case, the law kept me, a law abiding citizen, from protecting me and my own against two criminals who don't give a hoot about what the law says. And the anti-gunners want MORE gun laws???

Here in Texas, I make sure that we are VERY well armed. GOD BLESS TEXAS!
Link Posted: 10/22/2002 6:19:43 PM EDT


A.A. Glad both of you OK!! If you ever travel on I-45 at night somewhere between Huntville and Corsicana, then be careful. On that stretch, some places do not have highway lights at all.
When traveling at night on I-45, I'm fully armed, G23 and FA CAR-15 are next to me. Not in the trunk!!
Link Posted: 10/30/2002 5:58:35 PM EDT
SKS, cheap and as reliable as an anvil. Still can make body shots out to 250-300 yds. Head shots at 100yds are not that difficult. SKS are known for functioning in the absolute worst conditions. Ask a Vietnam vet about the locals lifting their SKS out of the rice paddies and firing away with the water dripping out.
They should survive any nasty stuff in the trunk.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 10:50:03 AM EDT
Another vote for the Marlin 336. This one has been coated with teflon-moly, topped off with a rugged old Weaver K4, and can tote around 16 rounds of .30-30.

I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of the above rifle behind the seat of my truck.

Link Posted: 10/31/2002 1:16:13 PM EDT
Before getting my CHL, Remington 870 w/ 20" barrel and a sling full of shells. Can't go wrong with the 870. In Texas you can even carry a long gun loaded, God Bless Texas!!

Whenever the terror alert is high, why not go with both.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 1:39:41 PM EDT
I'll cast a vote for the Ruger carbine, in either .40 or 9mm. They can be found used for $300., they point nice & they make big holes. They're built like tanks, too.
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 5:10:57 PM EDT
Each person is different.

For me I'll go with my bushy ak shorty. It's handy, loud and accurate.

It's better to stay with the same platform you are used to in potentially dangerous situations.

Max
Link Posted: 10/31/2002 9:06:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:
How about a Tankerized Lee Enfield?
http://members.optushome.com.au/lee-enfield/enfieldtrainers/images/BulldogNo1/Bulldog2.jpg

Cheap, Reliable, Tough..Packs a Punch, has a charger guide in the receiver for stripper clips, has a 10 round detachable magazine, it is 30 caliber. Since it is a Bolt Action Rifle it is legal in all 50 states. The wood stock looks nice and doesn't make gun control freaks go into an epileptic seizure like a Black Rifle does..




dude where can i get one
Top Top