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Posted: 11/1/2009 11:39:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2009 11:56:44 PM EST by southern_steel]
DELETE
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 11:49:46 AM EST
screw'd...

move!
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 12:32:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By southern_steel:
I live in California. I am in the completion phase of two builds on off list lower receivers. I don't want to install a bullet button on my rifle. I don't like the idea of them at all and I've never used one.

How or can I register these rifles on a From 4. I'm a LEO but my agency does not allow the use of non department issued weapons so I don't think I could get a letter for one (or two).

Because if I can't register them I might have to sell one and put the god awful bullet button on the other.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks





Are you wanting to build NFA configuration AR's? NFA registration will not bypass CA law.
The wording of your question made me go

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 12:38:19 PM EST
First, what is it that you're trying to do. If you're trying to build short barreled rifles, then you need a Form 1 to "make" an SBR, a Form 4 is to transfer an existing NFA weapon.

It would seem that the only legal SBRs for citizens in CA are C&Rs. Newly made AR15 types would not be C&R.

I have no idea if a registered SBR would relieve you of complying with the CA AWB either, with the feds or most state AWBs it does not.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 12:40:39 PM EST
You are out of luck. If you don't want a bullet button, then another option would be to build off a FAB-10 lower, but . . .

Registering a plain AR lower receiver won't get you around the CA laws, unless it was done prior to 1994. Class 3 stuff in CA is a no-no, unless it is dept. issue.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 12:06:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 12:07:08 AM EST by southern_steel]
I was told you could register a semi auto with 16" barrel under AOW on a form 4
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 12:26:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By southern_steel:
I was told you could register a semi auto with 16" barrel under AOW on a form 4

Form 1, and it has to be in PISTOL configuration, with a front grip....
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 2:38:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By southern_steel:
I was told you could register a semi auto with 16" barrel under AOW on a form 4

Form 1, and it has to be in PISTOL configuration, with a front grip....


and NO buttstock EVER
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:37:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By southern_steel:
I was told you could register a semi auto with 16" barrel under AOW on a form 4

Umm, you might want to goto your Home Town Forum and ask questions. I think you are being told to do NFA stuff but you are wanting to do non-NFA stuff and your weapon would be effected but some kind of state (CA) ban?

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:55:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By southern_steel:
I was told you could register a semi auto with 16" barrel under AOW on a form 4


Making an AOW would beon a Form 1. A F4 is for transfers.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:58:08 AM EST
A normal 16" configuration AR15 does not meet the definition of an NFA type firearm.

So the short answer is NO ..

The long answer is YES .. if it is configured as an NFA type firearm. It would need to meet the criteria of either an SBR or an AOW. Assembly can only be completed after your approved NFA paperwork is received with a cancelled NFA tax stamp affixed.

As far as CA law is concerned .. speak to a more knowledgeable SOT dealer in state or call the NFA branch and speak with them directly .. sounds like your dealer doesn't know NFA law and is advising something that is not kosher.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 6:16:03 AM EST
The AR-15 California Hometown Forum or calguns.net may be a better fit for your questions.

What are you trying to do? Build an AR-15 that can use detachable magazines? If so, check out the AW ID Flowchart link at the upper right of"http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php". You can use detachable magazines with "featureless builds". A semi-automatic AR-15 with 16" barrel is a Title 1 firearm (not NFA). If your objective is just to use detachable magazines, NFA alone won't get you there. Unless you have a CA "Dangerous Weapons Permit" you are still subject to CA Assault Weapon Laws. There is also an exception for military personnel on active duty orders.

Going NFA with an AR-15 pistol-based AOW won't get around CA Assault Weapon Laws. Absent a CA "Dangerous Weapons Permit", you will still have to use a bullet button (AND 10-round magazine) with an AR-15 pistol-based AOW. Unless you have access to some heavy hitting CLEO, it's unlikely you'll get a CA "Dangerous Weapons Permit". http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=8&f=11&t=349548. Even if you were able to get one, they're pricy. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter7.pdf. Section 4145 talks about fees. Initial application fee ($377). Annual renewal fee ($126). Annual Inspection fee ($165-$1,500) based on number of "dangerous weapons".

As mentioned before, AOW AR-15 = no stock, ever. If you are building/manufacturing this NFA firearm, you need to use a Form 1. If you are buying/transferring this from a CA Class 3 dealer, you need to use a Form 4.

If you are really interested in going NFA in CA:

The only NFA firearms that are outright prohibited for civilian ownership in CA are suppressors.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt

Machine Guns, non-C&R SBR's & SBS's, and DD's require a rarely issued "Dangerous Weapons Permit" from the State. Unless you are involved with the movie industry or are a big political playa with connections, forget about it. There are also some exemptions for fireworks and DD collectors. CA defines any weapon of a caliber greater than 0.60 as a DD (as opposed to the Fed definition of 0.50).

As a "normal" citizen that leaves non-pengun AOW's and C&R SBR's & SBS's. None of these items require prior State approval. Normal NFA rules apply. You might have better luck than civilians getting a CA CLEO to sign off on your Individual Form 1/4. Non-LEO have to go with the friendly trust/LLC. The good news is there are actually CA who have done this for AOW's and C&R SBS/SBR's.

If this interests you, check out ke6guj's "Do you want an AOW or SBS/SBR in CA?" post on calguns.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82693
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 6:54:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By southern_steel:
I live in California. I am in the completion phase of two builds on off list lower receivers. I don't want to install a bullet button on my rifle. I don't like the idea of them at all and I've never used one.

How or can I register these rifles on a From 4. I'm a LEO but my agency does not allow the use of non department issued weapons so I don't think I could get a letter for one (or two).

Because if I can't register them I might have to sell one and put the god awful bullet button on the other.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Update: Rifles are 16" barreled and semi auto only. Local FFL guy suggest it is in fact possible to register with BATF. Advised after rifle is complete must be registered in approx 60 days becasue a lower is not a completed firearm. He wasn't sure (sells mostly shotguns and hunting rifles). Advised he would contact his BATF rep in Sacramento this week for further information.

Bullet buttons can not be used with 30 round mags. But under CA state law I am allowed to own hi capacity magazines?




it sounds like your issues are with state laws and not feneral laws so the BATFE is not the best people to talk to since they are on the federal level. you dont need to register anythign with teh BATFE or use any of their forms since you are not doing anything related to the NFA.

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