Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 8/11/2014 6:34:07 AM EDT
I've been reading some articles on surplus rifles from collectors and several articles have mentioned reconditioning the wood (not refinishing) but cleaning removing oil where it has soaked in and then doing something where the wood soaks up good oils to return it to its original issues state. They mention this is not a quick process and it sounds like it's an "over time" type process.
Does anyone do this and if so what is the correct way to get woods and metals back to their original condition without refinishing or destroying any value? If anything i want to increase their value.

Also pretty sure you long time collectors already know this but I found a pretty informative site on rifles http://candrsenal.com
Link Posted: 8/11/2014 6:40:48 AM EDT
Low and slow.
An iron and a towel.
Link Posted: 8/11/2014 6:59:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2014 7:16:09 AM EDT by Spaxspore]
no no no no no...

leave them alone. Thats the BEST way of making them hold and increase in value.

Let me make this very clear - YOU CAN NOT REWIND THE CLOCK

With milsurps and collectible firearms.. usually doing too much is a trap new folks fall into and it causes more harm than good.



Link Posted: 8/11/2014 7:31:53 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Spaxspore:
no no no no no...

leave them alone. Thats the BEST way of making them hold and increase in value.

Let me make this very clear - YOU CAN NOT REWIND THE CLOCK

With milsurps and collectible firearms.. usually doing too much is a trap new folks fall into and it causes more harm than good.



View Quote


ok :-) I definately don't want to mess up value. I want to leave that to other folx so mine (and yours) all go up in value

So let me give you my cleaning description, what more should I do or not do?

Wood - Light wash with murphy's oil soap. then minwax lightly coated.

metal - hoppes #9, lightly oil, wipe down store.

Bore and chamber - liberal Kroil overnight in barrel and chamber area. Then run brass bore brush through, then patches, hoppes #9 till no crap on patches (2-3 patches usually) then patch it dry repeat if crap comes out on patches. Then very light patch of oil through bore to prevent rust.


Bolts, pretty much the same as bore but when i finish usually it's either light oil or frog lube.


I'm used to AR's and I like this C&R stuff much better so any direction to keep me from 'destroying' history and still having fun shooting them is appreciated :-)
Link Posted: 8/11/2014 7:35:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2014 7:42:53 AM EDT by Spaxspore]
ok this is what i do..

Ballistol on a Rag for the stock.. if the stock needs some major TLC i lightly put howards feed n wax on it and wipe it off after 30min.

Metal / bore etc short term storage - Ballistol. Long term - Rig Grease (just remember to do a clean wipe threw the bore before taking it to the range if you greese it)

Cleaning after firing - Hoppes 9.. (i don't like anything to harsh.. ) , followed up by Ballistol.

Cleaning after firing corrosive ammo - Water down the bore, water wiped on the bolt face.. then follow the same as cleaning after firing posted above.



We military surplus collectors like them a little ruff and ready.. it means the rifle has been used and saw the history we are all fascinated by. This history can never be replaced.. which is why one must take care and watch out for the temptation of over cleaning/refinishing . Because like i said you can't roll back the clock and " trying to roll back the clock" just makes everything WORST; in regards to current value, desirability,future value.

ill take the rifle above over a common refurb any day of the week.. and twice on sundays.


Link Posted: 8/11/2014 8:23:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2014 8:25:18 AM EDT by Scorpius]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Spaxspore:
ill take the rifle above over a common refurb any day of the week.. and twice on sundays.


View Quote


Are Ballistol and Kroil similar? Everyone seems to be all over Kroil if you leave it there for 24 hours to clean out lead/copper and condition the barrel.

And yea that is a beautiful rifle. I'd love to find one where a soldier maybe carved into the stock or something. Would be pretty cool. Great find that appears they have the copper metal so i assume thats also wartime stock and original matching barrel? what year nagant?
Link Posted: 8/11/2014 8:42:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2014 9:01:09 AM EDT by Spaxspore]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Scorpius:


Are Ballistol and Kroil similar? Everyone seems to be all over Kroil if you leave it there for 24 hours to clean out lead/copper and condition the barrel.

And yea that is a beautiful rifle. I'd love to find one where a soldier maybe carved into the stock or something. Would be pretty cool. Great find that appears they have the copper metal so i assume thats also wartime stock and original matching barrel? what year nagant?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Scorpius:
Originally Posted By Spaxspore:
ill take the rifle above over a common refurb any day of the week.. and twice on sundays.




Are Ballistol and Kroil similar? Everyone seems to be all over Kroil if you leave it there for 24 hours to clean out lead/copper and condition the barrel.

And yea that is a beautiful rifle. I'd love to find one where a soldier maybe carved into the stock or something. Would be pretty cool. Great find that appears they have the copper metal so i assume thats also wartime stock and original matching barrel? what year nagant?


Ive never used Koril.. but i assume they are similar .. Ballistol was developed in 1905 in germany and was used till 1945 in thier arm forces. Its still made today.. and its excellent.

Ballistol (meaning 'Ballistic Oil') is a mineral oil-based chemical which advertises that it has many uses. It was originally intended for cleaning, lubricating, and protecting firearms. The product originated from Germany before World War I, after the German military requested an 'all-around' oil and cleaner for their rifles and equipment. The German military used it from 1905 to 1945.

EDIT- No they are not.. night and day. Kroil is a penetrating oil much like PB blaster / wd40. It is not preservative and lubricate like Ballistol.

As for the mosin Nagant.. its a 1937 Tula, non import, its either a SCW or a un-marked Finnish. Its in a prewar stock; and unrefurbished condition.

Nothing too special.. but the price was right.. and it had the look.





Link Posted: 8/11/2014 9:50:48 AM EDT
and what about leather / canvas?

My SKS strap (canvas) smells like 50 yrs of mold environment as does the leather ammo pouches, though they look newish (light color) there is signs of some molding.

Then the 'unissued' strap though very nice appears to be rather dry. The 'issued' k31 strap...well its dry and dirty...well dirty just doesnt begin to describe it. Looks like it was dipped into the sweat of 50 men and left for 50 years
Link Posted: 8/11/2014 9:56:13 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Scorpius:
and what about leather / canvas?

My SKS strap (canvas) smells like 50 yrs of mold environment as does the leather ammo pouches, though they look newish (light color) there is signs of some molding.

Then the 'unissued' strap though very nice appears to be rather dry. The 'issued' k31 strap...well its dry and dirty...well dirty just doesnt begin to describe it. Looks like it was dipped into the sweat of 50 men and left for 50 years
View Quote


ballistol is safe for all leathers. Its all purpose.. its great.
Link Posted: 8/11/2014 1:57:46 PM EDT
I agree 100% with the advice Spax has given you. I use the same cleaning methods he described above. You cannot go wrong with Ballistol. It is great stuff and does such a good job. Highly recommend it
Link Posted: 8/11/2014 2:20:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2014 2:30:15 PM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 8/11/2014 4:24:28 PM EDT
I agree with what already said.

These old surplus rifles don't need to be improved, just maintained to prevent further damage.

That rare expensive Mosin that sold a few weeks ago was in its original condition it was in when it was imported. It was still missing the handguard yet still sold for a record amount.
Link Posted: 8/11/2014 4:41:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/11/2014 5:34:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2014 5:47:53 PM EDT by Spaxspore]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lee-online:
I agree with what already said.

These old surplus rifles don't need to be improved, just maintained to prevent further damage.

That rare expensive Mosin that sold a few weeks ago was in its original condition it was in when it was imported. It was still missing the handguard yet still sold for a record amount.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lee-online:
I agree with what already said.

These old surplus rifles don't need to be improved, just maintained to prevent further damage.

That rare expensive Mosin that sold a few weeks ago was in its original condition it was in when it was imported. It was still missing the handguard yet still sold for a record amount.


Yep that was college on gunboards who bought it. One of a few hundred ever made - known as SATs.

Originally Posted By raf:
Interesting. I know of people who have carefully restored M1 Garand rifles to as-issued condition, and sold them off, at a premium price all the while saying the rifle is a restored rifle, not original, or anything else.

.



That can be true with American military surplus.. folks seem to love (especially folks in the states ) to have pretty near unissued condition m1s.. including carbines. Parts swapped out in order to make it "correct" never been a fan of that. I like to keep them the way they were last issued in terms of what parts are on the rifle. Having Missing parts is another story though.

Folks in this country; compared to others, seem to have a deep desire to try to improve and roll back the clock and make rifles purdy. I see this tread especially when folks first get into collecting milsurps. I had this temptation to when i started. But what one doesn't realize that in doing this purdicfaction it usually destroys much of the rifles history and wonder why for the most part they loose their ass when they try to sell it.


I just want to throw this out there to just to help illustrate my point-

Take this AC p38 all orginal all matching..



Note the blueing wear on the barrel.. now what do you think the value will go if i cold blue it.. or completely refinish the pistol...

If you guessed in the crapper you are correct. This same idea goes for most milsurps..now saving one that is rusting away etc etc is a different story.. but i am mostly speaking of natural finish wear; and stock character.
Link Posted: 8/11/2014 6:24:07 PM EDT
If you watch the shows on History channel you'll see people bringing in items that are devalued to the point they are not wanted even for a much cheaper price. All due to the fact they were "cleaned" up.

If in doubt, leave it alone.

I have rifles well over 100 years old, they have survived numerous wars and conflicts. They don't need any new fancy product to clean them. Just some oil and dry storage.


If I see a mosin that is all pretty, my spidey senses tell me to look extra hard for signs of tampering. If I have doubts I'll just pass on it. I don't collect prettied up rifles, I want original condition rifles.
Link Posted: 8/11/2014 6:40:12 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lee-online:
If you watch the shows on History channel you'll see people bringing in items that are devalued to the point they are not wanted even for a much cheaper price. All due to the fact they were "cleaned" up.

If in doubt, leave it alone.

I have rifles well over 100 years old, they have survived numerous wars and conflicts. They don't need any new fancy product to clean them. Just some oil and dry storage.


If I see a mosin that is all pretty, my spidey senses tell me to look extra hard for signs of tampering. If I have doubts I'll just pass on it. I don't collect prettied up rifles, I want original condition rifles.
View Quote


Well said.
Link Posted: 8/11/2014 7:19:06 PM EDT
Exactly why i ask these questions. Obviously I need a clean lead free and copper free barrel and working actions to shoot them. But i definately want to keep them at their most valuable state. So it sounds like pretty much anything like barristol or oroils for that deep clean.
And if i clean off the wood use the barristol and if something comes out like dirt thats ok just rub it good with that.
Oh and guess maybe that electrolysis for barrel as well but doubt I'll try that anytime soon.
As for my canvas I'll just lightly soap it and let it dry i have a dehumidifier i could place it in.
Leather. Sounds like barristol will do it as well.
I'll be sure to reread this before i go start cleaning my new babies.
Top Top