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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/24/2004 3:19:43 PM EST
My uncle, recently retired, has left the big city and moved to the country. He believes he needs a "home defense gun". He's not a hunter and has very limited experience with firearms. He asked me if I thought a double barrel coach gun would make a good choice. I told him I thought so.

Now I want to know what you guys think.

-YJ
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 4:16:32 PM EST
Hell yeah. Besides, they're cool. Side by sides are the meanest looking shotties out there IMO.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 4:17:32 PM EST
simple pump is good too, more ammo before he has to reload
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 5:23:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 5:26:08 PM EST by yellowjacket]

Originally Posted By ajm1911:
simple pump is good too, more ammo before he has to reload



This was my thought too, however he wants something very, very simple to use in a stressful confrontation. He can always "upgrade" to a pump later if he wants. My other concern with a coach gun is it doesn't use ejectors. But, with practice this may not be an issue either. Maybe I can talk him into becoming a SASS member!

ETA: BTW does anyone know of a coach gun that does have ejectors? Stoegers doesn't.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 5:25:55 PM EST
I think that the coach guns I've seen (EAA/Baikal) do have ejectors and removable choke tubes.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 5:32:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 5:46:34 PM EST by yellowjacket]
Does EAA have a website? N/M I found it. But it doesn't say what the bbl lengths of the Hunting version are (the one with ejectors).
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 5:34:12 PM EST
It is hard to say what another person will be comfortable with.

I would not recommend a coach gun for defense in most cases due to the limited loaded capacity and the fact you can't load while having the weapon trained on the intruder.

MT

Link Posted: 9/24/2004 9:29:59 PM EST
A relic of times past... the double barrel coach gun.

This is the 21st century, and no bad guy is going to wait for you to reload.

If he insists on a shotgun, get him a Winchester Defender (set up right to begin with), or set him up with a Rem 870 with Choate extended mag, pistol grip, etc. Even a lowly Mossberg is not bad, can be had for a song.

Any barrel longer than 18 1/8" is not suitable for indoor use.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 9:40:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 5:57:19 AM EST
I have an EAA Baikal coach gun. Kicks like a mule compared to my pumps. I would not recommend it.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 12:22:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
A relic of times past... the double barrel coach gun.

This is the 21st century, and no bad guy is going to wait for you to reload.

If he insists on a shotgun, get him a Winchester Defender (set up right to begin with), or set him up with a Rem 870 with Choate extended mag, pistol grip, etc. Even a lowly Mossberg is not bad, can be had for a song.

Any barrel longer than 18 1/8" is not suitable for indoor use.



I actually took off my extension for reliability issues. Pistol grip...no way. That's for movies and to be tacticool.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 2:36:56 PM EST
I use a tuned Baikal in SASS. AS-IS straight from the box, it is incredibly stiff due to the springs in it. Goto the SASS forum and do a search on the Baikal. It will give you a lot of tips on how to tune it up to where it is usable.

Before I had my tuned, here is how I had to reload. Slide stock down and hold in right arm pit. Push the lever to unlock with the right thumb. Bring right knee up and place shotgun on leg. Push and hold barrels down with left hand. While keeping stock tight in right arm pit, reach up with right hand and pull empties out to drop to ground. Reach around to gun belt to grab 2 more rounds while holding pressure downwards with left hand to push into chambers. Release pressure on barrels and close barrels(it will almost do this on its own). Take safety off. Aim & shoot next set of knock downs. MAJOR PIA!

Definitely not something to try to do when BGs are 'in the wire' as to say. You are looking at ~$100 for this action job on top of the cost shotgun.

I would suggest that you get him a used Rem 870 12 guage PD trade-in. I am getting a second such shotgun for $140 + shipping to your friendly neighborhood FFL. Email me if you want this guy's name/email.

wganz


Disclaimer: I got this guy's name from Sturmgewehr.com and haven't gotten this shotgun from him yet to give you feedback on it or him. caveat emptor. YMMV
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 3:01:32 PM EST
Most SASS type coach guns have extractors, not ejectors. It is a rule of the game. It would be great for intimidation factor, pointing a side-by-each at someone, but I also recommend the 870.

Wild Earp SASS #7904 Life Member.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 3:44:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By drobs:
I have an EAA Baikal coach gun. Kicks like a mule compared to my pumps. I would not recommend it.



Use tactical loads. My 20" is a sweetheart with them and patterns pretty respectably....
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 4:11:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 4:12:49 PM EST by mic214]
The Coach guns are very cool looking and great for cowboy action shooting, but not for when you are out in the country and need the use of a shotgun in a life threatening situation, as back up or LE may take awhile to get to you. Two rounds in a double barrel severely limits your firepower when the SHTF.

If your uncle is not firearm savy, combat reloading a double barrel may not work for him too well. You can't go wrong with a Rem 870, a Win Defender or a Mossberg 500. All come with extended magazines and I don't think a pump gun is any more difficult to operate than a double barrel. I also think having 7 to 8 rounds readliy available in the gun is better than having to carry loose rounds with you to use for reloading the double. Adding a side saddle to any of these pumps will add another 6 rounds immediately on hand, so I think the pump gun is the way to go.

My "House" is the Rem 870 with a mag extension and a six round side saddle. I have a pistol grip stock on mine as it allows for easier one handed operation while leaving your other hand free to open doors, turn on light switches, operate flashlights or phones, etc.....

Have him check out Big 5 or Walmart as they all carry the basic pump guns for a reasonable price.



Link Posted: 9/25/2004 4:28:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:


THIS IS MY BOOMSTICK!



Shop smart, shop S-Mart.

While the SbS looks cool, even Ash switched to a lever action in the end .
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:30:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By easy610:

Originally Posted By drobs:
I have an EAA Baikal coach gun. Kicks like a mule compared to my pumps. I would not recommend it.



Use tactical loads. My 20" is a sweetheart with them and patterns pretty respectably....



I was using #6's at the time. Wouldn't even want to try buck. Those tactical rounds are hard to find around here.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:34:23 PM EST
My wife bought me a Rossi Stagecoach 12 ga w/20" barrels back in 1976. It is the only gun she wants for her use. It sits in the bedroom loaded with high power #8 birdshot and six #4 on a stock pouch. At close range (less than 15 ') the inital power of birdshot is very deadly. Its full choke. I shot a racoon last year with it the dogs had treed in the yard. Its simple, if the hammers are back its ready to shoot. Over the last twenty five years or so she has shot several snakes, a couple of feral cats, and one stupid dog that growled at one of my kids. When I traveled she always asked me to check it out and put it on her side of the bed. Its easy to maneuver in the house. Two shots aren't a lot, but if used for a true home defense gun two shots are more than enough.

rk
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:46:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 4:48:14 PM EST by yellowjacket]

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
lowgradepanic.bloghorn.com/img/boomstick.gif

THIS IS MY BOOMSTICK!



Lumpy, I didn't know you were in the movies!! Nice trigger discipline too!!

Seriously guys, thanks for the insights. I agree that a coach gun isn't the best home defender. However, he's pretty excited about getting one. I hate to be the one to rain on his parade. I will mention to him some of the misgivings offered here. But if he's got his heart set on one I'll help him find it. Then when I take him to the range I'll find out if he changes his mind about reloading. Thanks again.

-YJ

ETA: He can always buy the 870 or Mossberg latter. As they say: "Buy BOTH!"
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:19:55 PM EST
Let him get the coach gun then buy him a nice pistol for Christmas.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:28:22 PM EST

But if he's got his heart set on one I'll help him find it. Then when I take him to the range I'll find out if he changes his mind about reloading. Thanks again.

-YJ

ETA: He can always buy the 870 or Mossberg latter. As they say: "Buy BOTH!"



I'll get the name & address for the gunsmith that worked on my Baikal if you would like. He is close to DFW and is well known in the SASS community for his Baikal work. Again, your dad may like to get involved in SASS since it there are a lot of men his age involved. Gets him out of the house & involved in something that is enjoyable. Plus, gives him a lot of practice albeit with Elmer Fudd guns.

wganz


P.S. Before everyone snickers at these Elmer Fudd guns, you should do a search of SASS Wire of the number of times that the SASS Cowboys beat the local SWAT teams in charity matches.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 10:33:15 PM EST
I have one and agree.

Its a nice toy and a must have if you are going long list of guns to have, but.........


Two shots then reload. Major restriction.


And the sonofabitch doesnt kick like a mule, it kicks like Godzilla when pissed. I dont have anyting that kicks like it, nothing. 30-06, .454 casull, nothing. 6 or 8 rounds and you are done with it for the day.

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:49:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By CavVet:
I have one and agree.

Its a nice toy and a must have if you are going long list of guns to have, but.........


Two shots then reload. Major restriction.


And the sonofabitch doesnt kick like a mule, it kicks like Godzilla when pissed. I dont have anyting that kicks like it, nothing. 30-06, .454 casull, nothing. 6 or 8 rounds and you are done with it for the day.




If you really want to feel some pain try pulling both triggers at the same time!
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:15:12 PM EST
Against a bow wielding Apache, yes.

Against a modern home invader, no.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 1:22:24 AM EST

My Stoeger coach gun rocks! It was $300 and is shorter than my 18" 870 by about 3 inches. Maybe not the best for the situation, but certainly appropriate.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:52:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2004 11:37:54 AM EST by jem375]
of course the coach double barrel shotgun is a good self defense weapon for him.......kind of amazing that anyone survived in the golden oldie days since that is all they had then....I have a 20" DB coach gun and would not in the least be hesitant to use it in a crisis.....all of a sudden if you don't have a high capacity pistol,rifle, or shotgun you are just going to get yourself killed...absolute stupidity to believe that....
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 1:56:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By yellowjacket:
My uncle, recently retired, has left the big city and moved to the country. He believes he needs a "home defense gun". He's not a hunter and has very limited experience with firearms. He asked me if I thought a double barrel coach gun would make a good choice. I told him I thought so.

Now I want to know what you guys think.

-YJ



His biggest problem is "limited experience".
He needs to get some. Skill trumps minor differences in technology and the initial learning curve tends to be steep.

Personally, a rabbit eared coach gun would be better than a hammerless. Safer to leave around loaded and the important springs are at rest in a firearm which may sit around in a state of readiness for years.

Now that I think of it, I love shotguns with real hammers.

Regards,

Mild Bill
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 7:01:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:09:45 PM EST
Thanks mildbill and shotar. I appreciate your advice. He hasn't made up his mind yet.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 8:27:49 AM EST
Pros...the external hammer guns can be stored loaded and hammer down and still work after many years of storage; requires a very definite series of actions to fire; no safety to forget about (hammer guns); with practice, springs less stiff than those from the rear of a 3/4 ton truck, and ejectors, a good hand can fire four aimed rounds faster that you might believe; for home defense, two rounds will probably be sufficient in all but the most extreme cases; easy to handle and manipulate inside a house or vehicle; it is also a serious visual deterrant and unmistakable to a bad guy.

Cons...it does take practice, and these damned things do kick, but light loads at the range do help some; the less expensive versions need work, which takes money and time, to be easy to use; un-roostering a cocked hammer over a live round can be dicey, especially if one is "pumped" after a good scare; as pointed out, two rounds and a required reload may NOT be enough...and where is the spare ammo? few guys I know carry buckshot in their skivvies! Depending on a visual deterrant is very un-smart unless you can back it up.

While I certainly would not say he could not defend himself with one of these, I would say that there are much better alternatives for the same money.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 3:25:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 3:37:28 PM EST by wganz]
A possible alternative would be the Winchester 97 clones if you could get him involved with SASS. I know that I may sound like a broken record on it, but practice and performing under match pressure helps. There is also the social aspect of having someone being oriented outside themselves(and especially if there is a peer group aspect involved & SASS's avg age is 54).

The rhetorical question that I ask, is this man capable with his Elmer Fudd guns shooting this SASS stage capable of defending his home?

wganz

Link Posted: 10/5/2004 8:21:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 8:27:03 PM EST by 761mph]
stevens mdl 311 is also a good choice, internal hammers and ejectors, you can find some of these in pawn shops

also the rossi stagecoach special, 20" barrels, exposed hammers with ejectors, these are popular with the cowboy action shooters, i hunted quail with one of these for many years until i bought an rem. 1100

this was the only house gun my ex felt safe around......i always told her to back into a corner and wait till she saw them in the door way then to let them have both barrels
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 4:15:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 4:31:48 PM EST by yellowjacket]
wganz:

"Dayum!" Great video!! Thank you!

I couldn't read all the text at the beginning of the video. What does it say?

-YJ
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:23:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By wganz:
A possible alternative would be the Winchester 97 clones if you could get him involved with SASS. I know that I may sound like a broken record on it, but practice and performing under match pressure helps. There is also the social aspect of having someone being oriented outside themselves(and especially if there is a peer group aspect involved & SASS's avg age is 54).

The rhetorical question that I ask, is this man capable with his Elmer Fudd guns shooting this SASS stage capable of defending his home?

wganz




Man I only need 4 more guns to join.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:28:13 PM EST
Go for a pump for home defense. 2 rounds before reload is just obsolete. The cheapest side by side goes for about the same as a pump.
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