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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 9/18/2003 1:30:35 PM EST
I was wondering how to go about buying a Class 3 C&R firearm. I'm going to suppose that the Form 4 still has to be filled out. Will you still need CLEO signature and fingerprinting?

Link Posted: 9/19/2003 11:44:48 AM EST
I believe you still need all the class 3 specific stuff.
As far as I understand it the only thing a C&R does is help make the process slightly easier. Still need to go through a class 3 guy, still need fingerprints etc. I have know idea how Texas law will figure into this either. All I have learned is how to do it in Missouri.
Link Posted: 9/19/2003 11:47:45 AM EST
I think the only differences are it has to be a C&R class 3 and they can send it directly to you after you jump through all the other hoops.

Dennis Jenkins

Originally Posted By mm38:
I was wondering how to go about buying a Class 3 C&R firearm. I'm going to suppose that the Form 4 still has to be filled out. Will you still need CLEO signature and fingerprinting?


Link Posted: 9/19/2003 3:26:32 PM EST
In the Oct 6, 2003 issue of Shotgun News, there is an article "You Can Be a Machine Gunner" by Lee Arten. He mentions alternatives is you cannot get a Chief LEO signature or anyone else to sign. He gives the usual incorporating and becoming an FFL dealer and paying the tax to become a Class 3/NFA dealer.

He then states in a following paragraph, "Another option is acquiring a Curios and Relics FFL." That's about all the info he gives on that.

I was hoping that someone that had already purchased a C&R NFA item would be able to better explain the steps. If it would allow me to purchase without having to jump through the hoops for signatures(county says "no" in no uncertain terms, former city police chief wouldn't sign and unsure about his replacement), if it does sweet.

Link Posted: 9/19/2003 9:43:35 PM EST
look for lumpy223's post on the m16 full auto section of the site. he's been having trouble getting a sign off for a c&r mg.
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 5:56:18 AM EST
Here is how it should have worked and what I have done thus far.......

I located a gun I was interested in. The dealer wanted full payment up front which I agreed to after checking his references on subguns.com.

I contacted the sheriffs office and was told the signature shouldnt be a problem. I mailed the money for the gun along with a signed copy of my C&R FFL to the seller.

A week or so later I received the form 4 from the seller. I filled out my portion of the form and ordered the fingerprint cards from the ATF. I had the Sheriffs Dept fingerprint me.

What should have happened at this point was that they sign the forms, I attach the pictures & print cards, and mail it off to the ATF with the $200 tax payment. Once the ATF approved the transfer, they would have sent the stamped form back to the seller and he would have shipped me the gun.

This is how it should have worked here in Michigan. I don't know if your state laws require anything different.

Unfortunately....this hasn't happened yet. My CLEO is making this whole process much more lengthly and frustrating than it needed to be. Full details can be found here www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=14&t=167964&w=searchPop. It makes me sick that I have been fighting for a signature since 8-18-03. I am now looking to form a corporation and do an end run around the signature requirement.
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 1:26:30 PM EST
Thanks Lumpy,

In Texas private ownership of NFA items is no more restrictive than the Federal requirements. I was hoping I could avoid the local Chief LEO with my C&R FFL. The previous chief would not sign, I don't know about the new chief that has been in office for almost a week now. The sheriff's policy in no uncertain terms is "no", in fact his office seems to make efforts to delay TX CHL applications sent to his office by the state, CHL for residents in my county take 3 to 4 weeks longer on average than the rest of the state to process. I haven't attempted to find a sympathetic judge yet.

I think, I may approach the new chief and mention that the ATFE has already issued me an FFL(C&R) and that I had passed their background check and he is not liable for any actions of mine if he does sign the Form 4.

Link Posted: 9/24/2003 7:40:25 AM EST
Holy crap Lumpy! I just read your post. The CLEO signoff is supposed to be there to insure the ATF that there are no laws in that jurisdiction that prohibit NFA ownership, not to let them know who has what, or whether they want it there!
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