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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/14/2005 7:43:49 PM EDT
Seems that there are only a few places to pre-order online...

Just wondering what the consensus was on this.

If you have pre-ordered, where did you order from ? I have heard that Impact can be kinda screwy sometimes....

Think the ammo prices will drop below the 35-40 cent per round mark ?

Oh yeah, if you haven't pre-ordered... why are you waiting ?

Just curious....
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 7:52:57 PM EDT

I preordered from impact. If there is a shortage or they are banned by markm shortly after introduction, I might still get one. If I hate the thing I can probably dump it without loss as there will probably be a wait until they catch up with demand. I already have a few 50 rd mags. Those probably won't be available by the time the gun arrives.

If I could just find a SG1 jumpsuit and a blonde to hang around I’ll be all set.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 8:39:20 PM EDT
I am thinking Impact or Scottsdale, but I am gonna wait a little while longer to see what happens.

I've also heard that standard P90 mags wont work in the civy model.... I can't imagine why not, but
everything is heresay at this point.

Also, if they were to ban anything it would be the ammo... so you would basically have a nice looking
prop gun for your kid to play with

What may have really fucked the 5.7 round would have been the Five seveN pistol....

I just hope that we can hold onto the 5.7 round and ward off the ban junkies.

If not, then I would love a PS90 in 9mm.... yeah yeah, I will get flamed for that one but
I think if it comes down to politics a 9mm PS90 would be perfect and cheaper to shoot than the 5.7, JMO.

I just contacted an FN rep in my state, so maybe he will give me some useful info... maybe help me in my
deciding factor......

I'll let you know if it comes with an Amanda Tapping look alike

BTW, this season of SG1 is sucking pretty bad now that MacGyver left

Link Posted: 8/14/2005 8:43:12 PM EDT

Oh yeah, if you haven't pre-ordered... why are you waiting ?


No interest in it. Here's a big reason (price tag & aesthetics aside):


Also, if they were to ban anything it would be the ammo... so you would basically have a nice looking
prop gun for your kid to play with

Link Posted: 8/14/2005 8:59:42 PM EDT
That's why I got flamed about 3-5 months ago in the first "Civy P90" thread
here in the armory.... the ammo thing.

I wanted a 9mm variant... then everyone busted my balls saying " it would be
defeating the purpose of the gun design "

Well that may be true, but at least 9mm is cheap, low recoil and everywhere...
just like the 5.56 is.

If anti-gun liberals are going to continue to attack the 5-7 and the
civy P90 then FN and ammo makers may not step up to the plate in
fear of an impending ban or restriction of some kind.

Who gives a shit if it only holds 30 rounds of 9mm, I would be happy with that

The SS196 they have made to replace the (PERFECTLY LEGAL) SS192 is a completely
neutered bullet with low FPS. I will take it, but some ammo company would need
to step up and make the SS192 in the US. Plus it would help if NATO ever adopted
the caliber... like they supposedly did, but never implimented due to the oh so
many 9mm guns in service.

How ever it turns out... I hope that the PS90 and FS2000 make it to market because
someone needs to lead the pro-2nd amendment cool gun era

And I think FN can pull it off if they listen to their customers and adapt to the
market and every changing laws.

Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:03:16 PM EDT

In some threads I followed they said the imported rifle will only take 10rd magazines. Once in the U.S. they will be converted to accept the standard U.S. 30rd magazine that will be offered, which is the same size as the 50rd mags selling now.

I'm not worried about the ammo because all it takes is U.S. ammo makers to see a decent demand and they will produce. Maybe even Wolf will make it.

Anyway, I have enough real guns for now. I need toys and lots of them. Space guns are about the only new thing left to collect.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:07:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bones21:

If anti-gun liberals are going to continue to attack the 5-7 and the
civy P90...



Hey, that's a whole new reason to get a civy P90. Piss off the liberal trash and other deviant scum. It’s not just for aliens anymore!
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:17:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Robert2011:

Originally Posted By bones21:

If anti-gun liberals are going to continue to attack the 5-7 and the
civy P90...



Hey, that's a whole new reason to get a civy P90. Piss off the liberal trash and other deviant scum. It’s not just for aliens anymore!



Ok, that is another good reason, but what are we gonna do when we get our guns and they ban the ammo ?

Are we gonna throw rocks instead ?

Impact has 2,000 rounds going for 700 bucks.... that is hella expensive.
I can buy over 7,000 rounds of Wolf 7.62x39 for my AK for that much... and to me the AK appears more "evil" looking

I think remington and federal would be the first US ammo makers to step up to the plate, they would have to make a cheaper product... I would hope.

That is the main reason I want a 9mm variant, or conversion package, which will never happen, but I can hope... right

One more thing.... I was under the impression that these guns were being made or partially assembled in the US ? Was I wrong ?

Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:27:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bones21:
One more thing.... I was under the impression that these guns were being made or partially assembled in the US ? Was I wrong ?



I've read all sorts of contradictory things. I guess in a few months we will know for sure.

The ammo was reasonably priced before. Once pallets of it reach the distributors it will be again, although dealers who bought high might still act like it’s worth a gallon of diesel for each round.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 12:45:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 10:46:58 AM EDT by DevL]
They are not going to ban the ammo. They will ban the pistol before they ban the ammo. In fact I think it will be IMPOSSIBLE AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL as well as politcal suicide to ban the ammo instead of the pistol.

PS: I will wait for the price gouging to end before purchasing. Preorders will boost sales prices just because and tell you to pay up or get a refund. They simply make money on your interest instead of you.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 1:10:53 PM EDT
Too late

I just sent in my pre-order to Impact....

I now just have to send them my FFL and all will be fine, although when all is said and done I will probably have the rifle before the ammo Although the FNH rep told me that the 5.7 ammo should be readily available in early October this year
So we will see how that plays out.

I think the ~1400.00 price range is going to hold pretty steady, pre-order or not.

If worse comes to worse then I will just file a claim with my CC company and tell them that Impact mislead their price or misrepresented the product.

I doubt it will come to that because no one is going to drop the price of the PS90 down to say 1200 bucks right off the bat. Plus I will at least be on a list... and if supply cannot meet demand, then at least I will have my foot in the door. When I get my FFL to them that is

I'll worry about ammo and magazines when I come to that bridge.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 1:15:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 1:16:38 PM EDT by Quien]
I'm going to buy the FS2000 since it fires the caliber I have the most of and is compatible with the mags I already have. When the 5.7 ammo becomes plentiful and cheaper, I'll buy the P-90 and get it SBR'd.

ETA: I'm not going to pre-order anything till I've seen and held one. YMMV.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 1:29:03 PM EDT
I understand your point of view.

I have a ton of 5.56 as well... but I just don't like the way the F2000 looks, and for that money I'd rather have an AK or an M4gery os some kind, that's just me though.

The PS90 had better be in black is all I can say.... although at the SHOT show it was in gray ( easily dyeable ) , but green....

I just pray for black, not because it is the color of "evil", but because the gun would not look right in any other color. Like the ARs look fine in cammo patterns and OD, etc.... but not the P90, black or nothing !

As for holding it in my hands before buying... well it wouldn't be a first for me, so I will take that leap of faith

I live in a small town where my shop mainly carries hunting rifles, bolt guns, shotguns etc... So most of the cool / interesting guns that I do have... I have ordered through them or off the internet so I have no fear in doing that at all.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 2:35:56 PM EDT
The PS-90 will take standard P90 mags and every last thing will be made here in America. I doubt we'll see anymore ammo bans as the libs seem happy in their current state. They're set for release around October so I would have waited if I were you. Impact also seems generous at passing out the MSRP instead of fair market value. That will get you further ahead on the waiting list though.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:10:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 5:13:56 PM EDT by DmL5]
Bones21,

You need to spend more time reading over on the Five-seveN Forum. I have a few points to cover:

1. The Five-seveN ammo/gun ban failed.

2. The 50-round P-90 mags WILL work.

3. FN has released the (28 gr @ 2150 fps) SS195LF, a lead-free version of the old SS192. They are also developing the (40 gr @ 2000 fps) SS197.

4. Fiocchi Ammo, of Ozark, MO will be producing all 5.7x28mm ammo types starting in the next couple months. Ammo cost will probably drop below $15/box.

5. NATO is still stalled in its decision on the 5.7 adoption. Germany is causing this stall.

6. The PS-90's will be produced in FN's US plant.

7. The PS-90 and FS-2000 will be OD green. See below picture from the NRA show:



and finally..

8. There would be absolutely no point in making a 9mm P-90! The weapon's entire design and abilities revolve around the 5.7x28mm cartridge.

Hope this answers your questions and hope to see you over on the F-sN forum.

-DmL
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:02:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DmL5:
Bones21,

You need to spend more time reading over on the Five-seveN Forum. I have a few points to cover:

1. The Five-seveN ammo/gun ban failed.

2. The 50-round P-90 mags WILL work.

3. FN has released the (28 gr @ 2150 fps) SS195LF, a lead-free version of the old SS192. They are also developing the (40 gr @ 2000 fps) SS197.

4. Fiocchi Ammo, of Ozark, MO will be producing all 5.7x28mm ammo types starting in the next couple months. Ammo cost will probably drop below $15/box.Woot! its just down the street

5. NATO is still stalled in its decision on the 5.7 adoption. Germany is causing this stall.

6. The PS-90's will be produced in FN's US plant.

7. The PS-90 and FS-2000 will be OD green. See below picture from the NRA show:

img253.imageshack.us/img253/9688/41xh.th.jpg

and finally..

8. There would be absolutely no point in making a 9mm P-90! The weapon's entire design and abilities revolve around the 5.7x28mm cartridge.

Hope this answers your questions and hope to see you over on the F-sN forum.

-DmL



The FN rep I talked to made metion of a new 28gr load that will shoot at 2700 FPS out of the ps90
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:09:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 6:15:24 PM EDT by Robert2011]

I found 50rd mags for..

nevermind, I read it wrong.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:10:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 6:24:27 PM EDT by DmL5]

Originally Posted By JBowles:
The FN rep I talked to made metion of a new 28gr load that will shoot at 2700 FPS out of the ps90



That is the SS195LF, ballistically identical to the SS192 but with a lead-free primer. The PS-90's extra barrel length gains about 400 fps from the standard P-90's barrel. The 40 gr SS197 in development will get 2600 fps out of the PS-90. There is more info of this sort in the ammunition section over on the F-sN forum.

-DmL
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:58:18 PM EDT
I have 4 mags already and 2 more on the way.

I saw the P90 at Knights in Clearwater FL when the FN rep was there. It is a nic rifle. Glad I'm getting one. Maybe it will make a lib go catatonic.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:07:42 PM EDT
I might buy a FS2000 if I get to hold or shoot one.

I would only buy a PS90 if the ammo got a lot cheaper and and I got to examine one...


I'll keep an eye out for them.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 5:49:21 AM EDT
I'm going to buy the F2k as soon as it comes out because I love the ergonomics of it and to me it makes more sense for a CQB rifle then an M-4, plus, the magazine an ammo comminality with the rest of my guns.

I just wish that it came with that 2x optic the military version was shown with.

I'll get the P90 as funds become avalible, assuming the ammo shortage is resolved.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:45:53 PM EDT
i want the PS90 so bad i can taste it. but im gonna have to wait for ammo to become more available before i could invest that much money into a rifle.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:13:40 PM EDT
I'll take a FS2K when it comes out. The P90, meh, I personally like the looks of the 2000 better.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:13:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DmL5:


7. The PS-90 and FS-2000 will be OD green. See below picture from the NRA show:

img253.imageshack.us/img253/9688/41xh.th.jpg



-DmL



Just curious if this is a picture of the final FS2000, as it still appears to have a slick finish, where the P90 appears to have the textured or non-slip finish. I also wonder if the plastics used on the p90 and FS2000 can be dyed similar to what guys where doing with HK SL8's? Just a thought, as I am not very fond of the two tone look.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:49:10 PM EDT
I just joined the 5-7 forums and made my first post about the possibility of dying the PS90.

You may want to tag it and check back on it in a few days, maybe some people on the forums will chime in on the matter.

Here is the thread I started : fivesevenforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=656



Originally Posted By Solidius:

Originally Posted By DmL5:


7. The PS-90 and FS-2000 will be OD green. See below picture from the NRA show:

img253.imageshack.us/img253/9688/41xh.th.jpg</a>



-DmL



Just curious if this is a picture of the final FS2000, as it still appears to have a slick finish, where the P90 appears to have the textured or non-slip finish. I also wonder if the plastics used on the p90 and FS2000 can be dyed similar to what guys where doing with HK SL8's? Just a thought, as I am not very fond of the two tone look.

Link Posted: 8/18/2005 11:10:41 PM EDT
I'm not really into that thumbgrip type setup the FN's have, but I did like the fiveseven pistol. What really stops me from buying anything 5.7 related is ammo cost. It'd have to come down to under $150/K for me to even consider any weapon utilizing that cartidge.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 9:03:04 PM EDT
I too am more interested in the FS2000 than the PS90. Although, like everyone else, I'd be more than down to buy it as a fun-gun if ammo was less expensive.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:56:03 PM EDT
Exactly. Even if FN ups the production and other companies do so as well, the only way we will get cheap ammo is if Wolf produces it. I know we won't be getting any mil-surplus.. ever.

I would this a .22 kit would be in order. Isn't the barrel .22 already? Also is the barrel a quick change out? I hope they come in black. Also what makes this not a Pistol?
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 8:02:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DmL5:
Bones21,

4. Fiocchi Ammo, of Ozark, MO will be producing all 5.7x28mm ammo types starting in the next couple months. Ammo cost will probably drop below $15/box.

5. NATO is still stalled in its decision on the 5.7 adoption. Germany is causing this stall.

7. The PS-90 and FS-2000 will be OD green. See below picture from the NRA show:

8. There would be absolutely no point in making a 9mm P-90! The weapon's entire design and abilities revolve around the 5.7x28mm cartridge.



You say a box, is that 50 rounds or 100 rounds?
Screw Germany.
Why only OD Green, looks very very gross. Will it be possible to re-dye it?
What makes 5.7 so good if its not a military load (which is illegal). 9mm is at least avalible in both cheap and very leathle forms. 5.7 seems to be an over glorified .22mag in its civilian form.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 1:12:29 AM EDT
For anyone interested:

Plastic Refinishing. I have been a automotive custom painter for over 15 years and I own my own DuPont Refinishing retail store here in Hawaii. DuPont is the leader in idustry for plastic refinishing. As you may know, most car manefacturers are using more and more plastic in their designs every year, and these parts need to be painted.

The key to refinishing plastic is 80% preperation 20% application. What that means is: how you clean and prepare the plastic is alot more important than the type of paint you will be using in the part itself.

Dupont sells cleaners and adheision promotors for plastics as well as vinyl & Urethane paints that are very durable when applied over plastic. The final finish needs to be applied with a spraygun and isn't available in spraycan form, but the preps and aheision promoters are availabe in spraycan form. The paints WILL hold on metal as well as plastic, the urethanes having more heat resistance than vinyl of course.

If it's black you want, there are even choices on the final appearence of the finish: High gloss, Medium Gloss or flat black. The Urethanes are also solvent resistant once fully cured, which could be as quick as an hour and a half depending on the products you choose.

As for the PS90 I was all for getting one till the whole Ammo issue came up. I feel alot safer waiting to see just what happens once the gun is released here. If magazines become an issue then, then I won't get one.

As for a 9MM version of the gun, well, even if the guns whole purpose is lost I have a feeling that such a weapon would get decent sales on it's own. For many it's the LOOK that interests them, not the ballistics and to have a gun with the outward appearences of the PS90 that uses easily obtained 9MM roundswould be ideal for such people. Most shooters will use the gun primarily for plinking anyway. From a business standpoint, FN stands to make a LOT of money from a 9MM version. Take the .380 Cobray MAC11 for instance....380?!?!?! As long as the thing goes bang, and looks the way it does, people will buy it. I think that's where the 9MM idea comes from: easily available cheap ammo for a (in all intents and purposes) a battle rifle/PDW/Carbine whatever you want to call it REPLICA. It's not a bad thing, most of us don't have to get into fire fights everyday.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 5:18:13 AM EDT
Problem is that the magazine feed design predicates that the round be a bottleneck design. To make a 9mm the feed system would have to be completely redesigned.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 8:25:32 AM EDT
I'm on the pre-order list for the FS2000 at Impact. I'll probably get a PS90 eventually, but the FS2000 is more appealing to me.

I handled both at the Shot Show last year and fell in love.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 10:23:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mforgerer:
Problem is that the magazine feed design predicates that the round be a bottleneck design. To make a 9mm the feed system would have to be completely redesigned.



Hmmmm .22lr would be difficult because it is rimmed... hmmm... 9mm, I agree is stubby. The argument that you would lose the effectiveness if you switch ammuniton is mute, seeing we will not have access to the armour piercing military loads, only water down ones.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 5:06:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 5:17:13 AM EDT by pillbox]
Corbic, the only thing lacking in a SS192 or SS195LF that a SS190 AP round has, is a little steel nosecone insert inside (much the same insert as SS109 5.56) the SS192/195 were not made to expand or mushroom...and would have the same good or bad performance on people as the SS190 because the size,weight,and mechanism of wounding is the same...long(.82inch) tail heavy bullet made to tumble within two inches of flesh penetration. the only "watered down" round is SS196 with an expanding hornady V-max bullet and a reduced velocity of 1600fps...this round was made in response to the big blowup about the other civy ammo zipping though Level 1,1+,2A, and 2 kevlar body armor(and it certainly does do that if nothing else) and at under 15 yards SS192/195 can make it through 44 layers of kevlar when fired from the 4.92 inch barrel of the five seven pistol ...a Level IIIa is 48 layers. when the civy ammo is fired from a PS90's longer barrel, IIIa will not be a problem...just like its not a problem for a M4 carbine. a SS190AP in a five seven will punch a IIIa at 50 yards..and 9 to 12 inches of the person wearing it.
your chances of seeing FN make a P90 in another caliber is less than zero....the world market is flooded with 9mm submachine guns, we dont need another. And the idea for the P90 and the HK 4.6
was the U.S. military requested a fire arm that will do this and this, weigh under blah blah and be under so many inches long.....HK and FN developed thier PDW's in response to that request. This was not something FN or HK just decided to do for the heck of it. the P90 is exactly what the U.S. Army requested in all aspects of size, weight, and performance....and if not for Germany pitching a fit, the P90 would be a NATO standard weapon right now(it passed all the tests and beat the HK)
as it is the USMC seriously looks like is going to adopt it anyway for helicopter aircrews and the like.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:51:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mforgerer:
Problem is that the magazine feed design predicates that the round be a bottleneck design. To make a 9mm the feed system would have to be completely redesigned.



How about .357 SIG then?
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:47:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CaptainKevinDarling:

Originally Posted By mforgerer:
Problem is that the magazine feed design predicates that the round be a bottleneck design. To make a 9mm the feed system would have to be completely redesigned.



How about .357 SIG then?



Or .30 Tokerov?

*runs*
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:14:39 PM EDT
lol As long as were passing the bong and majic mushrooms around....lets have one in .303British maaaaan. whoa dude, I just farted a rainbow...look at all the prrrreeeettttty colors (and yes , yes I am being a smart ass :) )
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:45:41 PM EDT
A lot of people here seem to be missing some good points about a civie P90 - even if slightly neutered.

"Bullpup" type design - makes it shorter than ANY folding or collapsible stock rifle ;
EVEN with a 16" barrel


Fully Ambidextrous design - Optimum for weak hand or around Barricade use.

Lethality - Still more effective than most standard Pistol calibers , and at a longer range ,
EVEN with slightly neutered ballistics

Handling characteristics - Loaded , it is lighter than MOST Carbines AND has virtually
NO RECOIL


You can't compare it to a standard AK or AR , it's a TOTALLY different class of weapon.
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